Was Dak the best QB of the 2016 draft?

[gimmesix]

He’s been getting better every year and is a top 5 QB who gets no respect from many Cowboys hater fans but gets much respect from the rest of the NFL.

I respect Dak and wanted Dallas to sign him to a long-term deal because I believe that he's a very good quarterback bordering on greatness (which I do not consider achieved in today's NFL with nothing less than a 100 QB rating). But I'm also objective when it comes to analyzing players and this team, and the numbers show that he is not better, just different. I do believe that he can be better than he was as a rookie based on his development in certain areas, but I need the numbers to support that and we do not have them now. Empirically, his peak is still 2016, then he hit a low and started climbing back up. He has not reached a new peak yet.

 

[gimmesix]

He was 13-3 his rookie year. You say he has gotten better each year. So, why no post-season success? Why doesn’t the win-loss record show similar improvement?

Record has nothing to do with how good one player on a team is. It has to do with how good the team is.

 

[Rockport]

I respect Dak and wanted Dallas to sign him to a long-term deal because I believe that he's a very good quarterback bordering on greatness (which I do not consider achieved in today's NFL with nothing less than a 100 QB rating). But I'm also objective when it comes to analyzing players and this team, and the numbers show that he is not better, just different. I do believe that he can be better than he was as a rookie based on his development in certain areas, but I need the numbers to support that and we do not have them now. Empirically, his peak is still 2016, then he hit a low and started climbing back up. He has not reached a new peak yet.

Well you’re wrong and it’s ok to disagree.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

That's your opinion.

Yeah.....but then soon as Hurts gets into the game all of a sudden the rest of the team got energized....which seems to be the story of Wentz in Philly except in 2017.........when he goes down guys seem to be able to get more out of that team....

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Most of these trolling Dak aren’t Cowboy fans.

Show me an anonymous fan from Enemy territory who most every post only bashes our QB, I’ll show you a rivalry fan posing as a Cowboy fan. Doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to figure it out.

There's a difference. Dak is subject to criticism just like any NFL player. The difference whether it's a troll or not is if they just hate him no matter what. That's a troll. If Dak has a bad game and makes a bad throw that costs the game and gets criticized for it, that's just honest criticism. The difference is if the person is dedicated to fairness. If they criticize his mistakes, but also give him credit when he does things right, I wouldn't call that trolling.

But I know what you mean. Some so-called "fans" are always unhappy no matter what. Those are trolls.

 

[Redball Express]

Of the first three QBs selected in the 2016 draft, only Dak is still with his original team, and he keeps being ranked as highly as in the top 5 of the league's quarterbacks. Meanwhile, the two guys selected before him, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz, are off to restart their careers with other teams. I guess it's possible that Wentz could prove himself great in Indy or that Goff could become a force in Detroit, but we'll have to wait to see what happens. At first it looked like Wentz was going to turn out to be the best. I saw him make some amazing throws, but something seemed to happen to him. He definitely regressed.

For me the big surprise was how bad Paxton Lynch played for the Broncos. He's who I wanted the Cowboys to draft, and Jerry was trying to. After the Zeke pick, Jerry tried unsuccessfully to trade up back into the first round to get Lynch, but the Broncos beat him out. Lynch played really well in college, and the evaluators ranked him highly. He looked like the guy to me. But he's been a journeyman backup, and I'm not even sure if he's even still in the league.

You just never know, I guess. I'd like to think that Jerry got the best QB of 2016 by being a genius, but I don't think that's true. He would have rather had Paxton Lynch at the time. But the Cowboys scouting team had done their homework well enough to realize that Dak had tremendous potential and was worth chancing a 4th-round pick on him.

It's bizarre how things work out. If the talent evaluators had been spot-on, Wentz and Goff would be at the top of the league right now with Lynch very close behind, and Dak would be a capable backup somewhere. It's weird how things work out.

Do you agree, though, that by now it's a done deal? Dak was the best QB picked in the 2016 draft?

They all have tremendously underacheived I will say.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Yeah.....but then soon as Hurts gets into the game all of a sudden the rest of the team got energized....which seems to be the story of Wentz in Philly except in 2017.........when he goes down guys seem to be able to get more out of that team....

That's like saying Dak was 1-3 and Dalton was 4-5.

Do you believe Dalton energized our team more than Dak did?

I think that Wentz was trying to much. Hurts was not. Philly is a mess and if Wentz continues his horrible play with a pretty together organization like the Colts then he is officially a lost cause. I can't say that until I see him in a new environment without the ghost of Nick Foles breathing down his neck.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

That's like saying Dak was 1-3 and Dalton was 4-5.

Do you believe Dalton energized our team more than Dak did?

I think that Wentz was trying to much. Hurts was not. Philly is a mess and if Wentz continues his horrible play with a pretty together organization like the Colts then he is officially a lost cause. I can't say that until I see him in a new environment without the ghost of Nick Foles breathing down his neck.

I saw the Philly and Cowboys games and the Cowboys offense as a whole took a backseat when Dak left. Its just what it is. I know some hate to admit that but record or not the team took a backseat.

When Hurts got out there.....he wasn't without warts but it gave the team a much needed energy boost. They went from thinking they have the worst QB in the league to rallying behind a guy who seems to be a much better leader.

 

[Sevenup3000]

Goff has still had the most success going to a Super Bowl. His trade to Detroit still baffles me. I thought he was the best QB in that draft and still might be.

I think Dak has benefited from the supporting cast he’s had on offense . If he had been drafted by LA or Philly I doubt he’d of had as much success.

Often the team you go to and the situation dictates the early success you have in this league. Most of the highly drafted QB’s go to bottom dweller teams and it takes a few years to build around them.

The Cowboys in 2016 with Romo were poised to be a legit playoff contender hoping to return to their 2014 form especially with their top pick a stud RB coming in.

Riiiiiiight that is why the Cowboys had a top 5 pick after 2015...you know that loaded roster and all.

And that is why the 2020 Cowboys did so well too...you know all that talent people like you said that ANY QB could win with...and then immediately after Dak goes down that loaded Cowboys offense proceeded to score 2 TD in their next 35+ drives

 

[Flamma]

A big concern I had with Goff was how easy it was for New England to put together a game plan that exploited his weaknesses. They made him look like a 3rd-string scrub in the Super Bowl. I'm not saying he IS as bad as a 3rd-string scrub, only that they gamed him so well that he looked really bad.

I'm no game plan guru by any measure. But I noticed something early on in that game and the Rams didn't seem to adjust well to it. All season the Rams ran play action out of the 11 personnel. I noticed that the Patriots defense were completely ignoring it. Almost got a pick as a result early on by a LB that Goff didn't expect to be there so fast. I wouldn't put it past Belichick to try and bait the Rams into running the ball more. I'm sure there was more to it than that, that was just one thing I noticed.

 

[Flamma]

Why would you subtract the 13-3? LOL Because you are a pathetic troll?

QB's dont have records, teams do. But if you want to use record, you get blasted out of the water as well when you use stats.

Today people treat QBs like they're pitchers on a baseball team. It's not even close. Even still, pitchers need some help. My issue with the Cowboy is they don't seem to play with high intensity. I can't blame an individual player for that.

 

[Diehardblues]

Riiiiiiight that is why the Cowboys had a top 5 pick after 2015...you know that loaded roster and all.

And that is why the 2020 Cowboys did so well too...you know all that talent people like you said that ANY QB could win with...and then immediately after Dak goes down that loaded Cowboys offense proceeded to score 2 TD in their next 35+ drives

They had a top 5 pick after 2015 cause their QB was out most of the season. They were expected to pick back up with Romo’s return to 2014 form with a RB who could replace Murray’s production.

2020 didn’t do so well starting 2-3 with their QB while putting up big numbers with their offense while defense was horrid. Then after he went down struggled scoring until Dalton returned scoring over 30 points in 4 wins staying in contention in division.

Dak has made the most of his opportunity. We are lucky to have him. But his story might have turned out differently at least initially without this caliber offense around him.

 

[Diehardblues]

There's a difference. Dak is subject to criticism just like any NFL player. The difference whether it's a troll or not is if they just hate him no matter what. That's a troll. If Dak has a bad game and makes a bad throw that costs the game and gets criticized for it, that's just honest criticism. The difference is if the person is dedicated to fairness. If they criticize his mistakes, but also give him credit when he does things right, I wouldn't call that trolling.

But I know what you mean. Some so-called "fans" are always unhappy no matter what. Those are trolls.

Agreed. But I’m not just talking about Cowboy fans. These fan forums attract rival fans who pose as Cowboy fans to stir things up.

 

[Diehardblues]

I'm no game plan guru by any measure. But I noticed something early on in that game and the Rams didn't seem to adjust well to it. All season the Rams ran play action out of the 11 personnel. I noticed that the Patriots defense were completely ignoring it. Almost got a pick as a result early on by a LB that Goff didn't expect to be there so fast. I wouldn't put it past Belichick to try and bait the Rams into running the ball more. I'm sure there was more to it than that, that was just one thing I noticed.

That was a great defensive SB. Belichick devised another masterful plan. And Brady played horrible until the game was on the line. Mr Clutch came thru again and their defense clinched it. No reason to hold Goff responsible . He had a great season leading Rams to SB.

 

[Flamma]

That was a great defensive SB. Belichick devised another masterful plan. And Brady played horrible until the game was on the line. Mr Clutch came thru again and their defense clinched it. No reason to hold Goff responsible . He had a great season leading Rams to SB.

I don't blame Goff for that loss. I think the Rams got out coached in that game. Yet it was still close. But Goff didn't have one of his better games. He let that one pass get away from him that should have been a TD and he threw a bad pick in the redzone. In a close game that can kill you.

I often wonder why the Cowboys didn't run that type offense more often. Dak never looked bad coming out from under center. But rarely is he asked to do so. And we have the RB to threaten the LBs with play action.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Of the first three QBs selected in the 2016 draft, only Dak is still with his original team, and he keeps being ranked as highly as in the top 5 of the league's quarterbacks. Meanwhile, the two guys selected before him, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz, are off to restart their careers with other teams. I guess it's possible that Wentz could prove himself great in Indy or that Goff could become a force in Detroit, but we'll have to wait to see what happens. At first it looked like Wentz was going to turn out to be the best. I saw him make some amazing throws, but something seemed to happen to him. He definitely regressed.

For me the big surprise was how bad Paxton Lynch played for the Broncos. He's who I wanted the Cowboys to draft, and Jerry was trying to. After the Zeke pick, Jerry tried unsuccessfully to trade up back into the first round to get Lynch, but the Broncos beat him out. Lynch played really well in college, and the evaluators ranked him highly. He looked like the guy to me. But he's been a journeyman backup, and I'm not even sure if he's even still in the league.

You just never know, I guess. I'd like to think that Jerry got the best QB of 2016 by being a genius, but I don't think that's true. He would have rather had Paxton Lynch at the time. But the Cowboys scouting team had done their homework well enough to realize that Dak had tremendous potential and was worth chancing a 4th-round pick on him.

It's bizarre how things work out. If the talent evaluators had been spot-on, Wentz and Goff would be at the top of the league right now with Lynch very close behind, and Dak would be a capable backup somewhere. It's weird how things work out.

Do you agree, though, that by now it's a done deal? Dak was the best QB picked in the 2016 draft?

For a very, very, very few of us, we knew Dak was the best QB out of that 2016 draft, and we were blasted royally for years for voicing as much. I knew time would prove everyone wrong. Glad to see you admit you were wrong about Dak, and now you're in his corner. Wish some others would do the same, instead of still bashing and doubting him. We're lucky to have Dak.

 

[Sevenup3000]

They had a top 5 pick after 2015 cause their QB was out most of the season. They were expected to pick back up with Romo’s return to 2014 form with a RB who could replace Murray’s production.

2020 didn’t do so well starting 2-3 with their QB while putting up big numbers with their offense while defense was horrid. Then after he went down struggled scoring until Dalton returned scoring over 30 points in 4 wins staying in contention in division.

Dak has made the most of his opportunity. We are lucky to have him. But his story might have turned out differently at least initially without this caliber offense around him.

But I thought the Cowboys were sooo stacked that any QB could win? Yet in 2015 and in 2020 (without Dak) the offense (and team) suddenly became horrid.

The only thing that separate the 2015 Cowboys from the 2016 Cowboys was QB play -- Yes, that includes RB play -- WRs were the same, same OL, same TEs, same HC, same OC...

Yet, in 2015 the QB play was 30 points below the QB play in 2016.

So why were the Cowboys picking top 5 in 2015 yet by 2016 they had secured the No. 1 seed in the NFC?

 

[DandyDon52]

draft obviously is not a exact science, but its law of averages and probabilities (no, not a math problem). there is enough points of information about players that they can make a educated guess as to which players are better than others, specially in the first round. no, I am not saying all of first rounders succeed, but more first rounders succeed than second rounders. more top of the first half of first rounders succeed, than bottom half and so on. as you get lower in the rounds, the probability of missing information is higher. for example, they played in a particular system, can they make transition to NFL? its a guess. they played in a small school. can they play in the NFL. its a guess...and sometimes players play in a specific system, not similar to NFL, where players do have the NFL skills, but haven't been able to show case it, so they fall to lower rounds because there is less information.

generally each draft has around 16-20 players that are truly first rounders and most go in top of first round and you will find most of them succeed (and yes there are failures there too, but to lesser extent). the rest becomes more of a gamble, that's why you see a lot, a lot more first rounders at the bottom of the round fail. they all have flaws...

some positions are harder to project than others...RB is easiest. OL maybe easier as well, but WR, DEs are a little harder. and of course, QB is probably the hardest, that's why QB success is almost all over the place, although there are years/times that some really good candidates with high probability of success come out, like Lawrence, Aikman, etc.

you probably see a lot of first round QB failures, given current NFL. its a premium position and teams tend to over draft and take gambles....if not for that, most of these QBs would go in lower rounds. ala Lynch.....Geno Smith, etc......

so is it a surprise Dak fell? no. based on then information and analysis he wasn't NFL ready, but he learned, the system he played in wasn't NFL like, but he adjusted quickly. he minimized his mistakes and then he improved his game.

Well your right , but I think they go too much by stats td's big plays that the player had in college. And by the pro day thing where they go and do
stunts lol.
They also dont really look at intangibles, personality's, how smart are they etc.
Dak was a smart guy, he graduated college, and he had the right positive I can do it attitude.
All that helped him succeed , but no experts or many teams gave him credit for any of that. So poor evaluations by all.

 

[Fastpitch Dad]

Sure, explain.

What holes, how has he NOT proven you wrong alread? Two questions there.

How mentioned holes?

And why would I have to outline to you what I see? You're pattern of behavior on here is getting to predictable. It's my opinion and I don't think you care about it one way or the other.

I hope he's proves me wrong and we win multiple Super Bowls with him. I'm rooting for him just like I do with every other player.

I actually don't mind your troll-like act on here. It's the internet, if anyone gets offended on here then they should stay off. Haha.

Have a great day, I know I will!

 

[Diehardblues]

But I thought the Cowboys were sooo stacked that any QB could win? Yet in 2015 and in 2020 (without Dak) the offense (and team) suddenly became horrid.

The only thing that separate the 2015 Cowboys from the 2016 Cowboys was QB play -- Yes, that includes RB play -- WRs were the same, same OL, same TEs, same HC, same OC...

Yet, in 2015 the QB play was 30 points below the QB play in 2016.

So why were the Cowboys picking top 5 in 2015 yet by 2016 they had secured the No. 1 seed in the NFC?

I didn’t say with any QB.

2015 we not only didn’t have a QB as good as Dak or Romo but we didn’t have a RB with league leading production as Murray or Elliott. And for the record Dez was out with a broken foot part of 2015 as well.