Was Favre intimidated last night?

[LittleBoyBlue]

I still think he was mentally rattled. I think our fans and the situation sorta of got into his head. I think if that was a playoff game, he would have forced himself to play but considering it was a regular season game, he might have decided to sit it out. Again, this is a big monkey on Favre's back and he hasn't met this challenge. I know he has a reputation for being a tough but even tough guys have their weaknesses or fears.

In regards to a Favre being diagnosed with a nerve injury, his gripping his arm or saying he can't grip it is subjective. In medicine, we write SOAP notes, the "S" stands for subjective. That is based on what the patient tells you. When you do a consult, a patient can say they have pain in a particular area but that is not "objective" data (the "O"). You take that into consideration but you don't make a diagnosis exclusively on this subjective data. Objective data involves data that can measured or observed by a third party such as lab results and imaging(X-rays, MRI's and CT scans. You are right, it is ridiculous to make a diagnosis based on a television replay. However, it's also ridiculous to say he has nerver damage based entirely on what the patient (Favre) tells you. No physician bases their entire diagnosis upon what a patient tells them or presents to them either. Objective data can contradict the subjective information given by patients. For example, Favre wasn't even aware he had separated his left shoulder despite the imaging showing otherwise. Another example is that patients with cholelithiasis (gallstones) don't present with the usual symptoms of RUQ pain and pain after eating. In fact some present with RLQ pain which is typically indicative of an appendicitis. I'm sure Favre may have difficulty gripping the ball but I wonder to what degree could he grip the ball. I would like to know what the imaging showed.

Forget it.... you are wasting keystrokes.

No one here will say they think he pulled a "no mas, no mas".


One thing is for sure... he will start next week. There is no way he lets that streak end... not until he retires with it intact.

 

[Nors]

Favre was battered by our defense. Favre was wincing and rattled before the Nate Jones knockout hit.

Kudo's to Phillips and our pass rush. We abused Favre.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Forget it.... you are wasting keystrokes.

No one here will say they think he pulled a "no mas, no mas".


One thing is for sure... he will start next week. There is no way he lets that streak end... not until he retires with it intact.

I'm not trying to get people to agree with me. I'm not that type of poster. If I was, I wouldn't admit I like Bryant Gumble or start threads alleging Favre wussed out. It's not difficult to assess the status quo opinion on this forum and to abide by it for the sake of popularity. However, I enjoy having the freedom to post my thoughts. The disadvantage of being popular is that you become limited by what you can say since you are concerned with ruining your reputation or offending others. The disadvantage of being unpopular is you lose credibility and people don't take the time to understand your POV. Nonetheless, I decided to adopt the former philosophy. I don't mind being a fool on an anonymous forum

 

[FloridaRob]

I still think he was mentally rattled. I think our fans and the situation sorta of got into his head. I think if that was a playoff game, he would have forced himself to play but considering it was a regular season game, he might have decided to sit it out. Again, this is a big monkey on Favre's back and he hasn't met this challenge. I know he has a reputation for being a tough but even tough guys have their weaknesses or fears.

In regards to a Favre being diagnosed with a nerve injury, his gripping his arm or saying he can't grip it is subjective. In medicine, we write SOAP notes, the "S" stands for subjective. That is based on what the patient tells you. When you do a consult, a patient can say they have pain in a particular area but that is not "objective" data (the "O"). You take that into consideration but you don't make a diagnosis exclusively on this subjective data. Objective data involves data that can measured or observed by a third party such as lab results and imaging(X-rays, MRI's and CT scans. You are right, it is ridiculous to make a diagnosis based on a television replay. However, it's also ridiculous to say he has nerver damage based entirely on what the patient (Favre) tells you. No physician bases their entire diagnosis upon what a patient tells them or presents to them either. Objective data can contradict the subjective information given by patients. For example, Favre wasn't even aware he had separated his left shoulder despite the imaging showing otherwise. Another example is that patients with cholelithiasis (gallstones) don't present with the usual symptoms of RUQ pain and pain after eating. In fact some present with RLQ pain which is typically indicative of an appendicitis. I'm sure Favre may have difficulty gripping the ball but I wonder to what degree could he grip the ball. I would like to know what the imaging showed.

There is another alternative to subjective and objective. It's called a fact. When FAvre told his trainers that he couldn't feel his last two fingers and he could not grip the ball. it is not an objective conclusion, it is not a subjective conclusion, it is a fact, He couldn't grip a football. IN professional footballl if you don't have feeling in your fingers, you can not throw the ball. If you can;t throw the ball as a QB, you can't play.

FAvre has played with a banged up shoulder, a broken thumb, twisted ankle, twisted knee, and several other injuries that other QB would not even get out of bed with, much less play a football game with. There was no mental reason he would not play, it was physical.

But if you want to believe that Favre was skeared of playing, then I have another word for you, it isn't objective, or subjective, or fact, the word is Delusional. Look it up. It applies here....

 

[AmishCowboy]

Favre was battered by our defense. Favre was wincing and rattled before the Nate Jones knockout hit.

Kudo's to Phillips and our pass rush. We abused Favre.

Brett might have had a little McNabb in him last nite.

 

[smarta5150]

There is another alternative to subjective and objective. It's called a fact. When FAvre told his trainers that he couldn't feel his last two fingers and he could not grip the ball. it is not an objective conclusion, it is not a subjective conclusion, it is a fact, He couldn't grip a football. IN professional footballl if you don't have feeling in your fingers, you can not throw the ball. If you can;t throw the ball as a QB, you can't play.

FAvre has played with a banged up shoulder, a broken thumb, twisted ankle, twisted knee, and several other injuries that other QB would not even get out of bed with, much less play a football game with. There was no mental reason he would not play, it was physical.

But if you want to believe that Favre was skeared of playing, then I have another word for you, it isn't objective, or subjective, or fact, the word is Delusional. Look it up. It applies here....

He ducked us, get over it

 

[mr.jameswoods]

There is another alternative to subjective and objective. It's called a fact. When FAvre told his trainers that he couldn't feel his last two fingers and he could not grip the ball. it is not an objective conclusion, it is not a subjective conclusion, it is a fact, He couldn't grip a football. IN professional footballl if you don't have feeling in your fingers, you can not throw the ball. If you can;t throw the ball as a QB, you can't play.

FAvre has played with a banged up shoulder, a broken thumb, twisted ankle, twisted knee, and several other injuries that other QB would not even get out of bed with, much less play a football game with. There was no mental reason he would not play, it was physical.

But if you want to believe that Favre was skeared of playing, then I have another word for you, it isn't objective, or subjective, or fact, the word is Delusional.....

I'm speaking specifically in regards to medical terms. You are espewing your personal philosophy not medicine. If I lied and said I couldn't grip a ball, would it be a fact that I couldn't grip a ball? Have you ever heard of the term "malingering." It happens all the time. It means a patient lies or misleads those regarding his or her condition to achieve a specified goal. Also, patients may be under the wrong impression and convey to you their understanding of their condition which is not necessarily what they have. Facts are not easy to come by. This is why we use subjective and objective information to assess facts or information about the patient. Again, I'm not going to reach any conclusions until I read the results from the CT or MRI. There is a disorder called "conversion disorder" in which some patients will claim they have lost certain senses despite there being no physiological damage.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I'm not trying to get people to agree with me. I'm not that type of poster. If I was, I wouldn't admit I like Bryant Gumble or start threads alleging Favre wussed out. It's not difficult to assess the status quo opinion on this forum and to abide by it for the sake of popularity. However, I enjoy having the freedom to post my thoughts. The disadvantage of being popular is that you become limited by what you can say since you are concerned with ruining your reputation or offending others. The disadvantage of being unpopular is you lose credibility and people don't take the time to understand your POV. Nonetheless, I decided to adopt the former philosophy. I don't mind being a fool on an anonymous forum

No... actually I agree with you. I was just saying that no many will say "those things".

I will say it.... I think he made the injury out to be more than it was.... if it was playoff game - he goes back in. He pulled a "no mas" IMO

Brett might have had a little McNabb in him last nite.

He did last night.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

No... actually I agree with you. I was just saying that no many will say "those things". I will say it.... I think he made the injury out to be more than it was.... if it was playoff game - he goes back in. He pulled a "no mas" IMO. He did last night.

I'm just waiting for someone to provide the imaging results. I'm pretty sure I'm wrong but I want to see the evidence of the imaging before I think otherwise. I know someone will provide a link here any second now

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Brett might have had a little McNabb in him last nite.

We are willing to admit McNabb might have done that despite McNabb demonstrating he has played with pain in the past. But in regards to Favre, it's sacreligious to even suggest this. It's an interesting double standard

 

[FloridaRob]

Brett might have had a little McNabb in him last nite.

You guys need to send a tape to Leno or Letterman. I think some of you guys have a career in comedy.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

You guys need to send a tape to Leno or Letterman. I think some of you guys have a career in comedy.

And you've certainly ruled out any career in medicine.

 

[chinch]

There is another alternative to subjective and objective. It's called a fact. When FAvre told his trainers that he couldn't feel his last two fingers and he could not grip the ball. it is not an objective conclusion, it is not a subjective conclusion, it is a fact, He couldn't grip a football. IN professional footballl if you don't have feeling in your fingers, you can not throw the ball. If you can;t throw the ball as a QB, you can't play.

the OP is ignoring the "subjective" (ie. i can't feel my fingers or grip the ball") and the "objective" (ie. clinical exam of the patients subjective claim "i can't feel my fingers or grip the ball").

the guy left early at half and end of game, got wrapped, and visibly (ie. the objective part of the exam the OP spewed about) was injured with limited, guarded movement of his throwing forearm & hand.

this thread is an embarrassment.

 

[FloridaRob]

And you've certainly ruled out any career in medicine.

well that's a relief. I hate hospitals, I hate blood and shots. Whew!!!

As for you, with your keenly observant nature of a professional athletes malingering, lying and faking injuries, you may want to keep an eye open for that dream job of Parking Lot Cart guy at Walmart. That or the People Greeter so that you can use your keen observations for the crooks that there to rob the place.....

 

[mr.jameswoods]

the OP is ignoring the "subjective" (ie. i can't feel my fingers or grip the ball") and the "objective" (ie. clinical exam of the patients subjective claim "i can't feel my fingers or grip the ball").

the guy left early at half and end of game, got wrapped, and visibly (ie. the objective part of the exam the OP spewed about) was injured with limited, guarded movement of his throwing forearm & hand.

this thread is an embarrassment.

I was not ignoring the subjective. I just wasn't basing a diagnosis entirely upon it. The physical exam is only a part of the objective data that is collected. Objective data consists of labs, imaging, AND the physical exam. You are assuming the physical exam is the entire objective exam. The trainers wrapping him doesn't suggest they have reached a diagnosis. In medicine, you take precautionary measures just in case like prescribing antibiotics before the strep screen results comes back. As a physician, you should know this.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

well that's a relief. I hate hospitals, I hate blood and shots. Whew!!!

As for you, with your keenly observant nature of a professional athletes malingering, lying and faking injuries, you may want to keep an eye open for that dream job of Parking Lot Cart guy at Walmart. That or the People Greeter so that you can use your keen observations for the crooks that there to rob the place.....

I'm a physician

 

[Doomsday]

He even said the only reason he stayed on the field suited up was because they only had 2 QBs and he may of had to go back in if Rodgers got hurt. How many other players would do that? The guy was been a warrior. Personally I think he is a bit overrated but I would never think to question his heart.

 

[chinch]

let it go. (had he been able to grip the ball, i'd bet the farm he'd have went in even with a fractured radius)

Now, he should have went in for xrays immediately instead of letting the trainer rub his arm for 10 minutes like an amateur. LOL. Doesn't TX stadium have full imaging and MRI capability? really foolish trainers there consider he no doubt told them he hit the defenders helmet.

either way, hope he's OK so we can beat him down in Jan again

 

[mr.jameswoods]

let it go. (had he been able to grip the ball, i'd bet the farm he'd have went in even with a fractured radius)

Now, he should have went in for xrays immediately instead of letting the trainer rub his arm for 10 minutes like an amateur. LOL. Doesn't TX stadium have full imaging and MRI capability? really foolish trainers there consider he no doubt told them he hit the defenders helmet.

either way, hope he's OK so we can beat him down in Jan again

You are right. As physicians, we should just make a conclusive diagnosis based on what the patient tells us and presents to us. Who needs X-rays, MRI's and CT's. The next time you see a radiologist, tell him or her their services are not needed. After all, we only pay them about 500K per year because we enjoy doing so

 

[FloridaRob]

I'm a physician

Well I'm not but I stayed at a HOliday Inn once. Maybe you can send an email to the Packers medical staff and they will send you their results to help you out with your off the wall, out in left field, out of this world theory that Favre "malingered and lied."