WCO in the NFL

[Phoenix-Talon]

Dallas does not run a WCO; not since Coslet was OC. Parcells' offense is its own animal altogether. A little background:/QUOTE]

Good research rav.

But like you said, when Coslet was at Dallas, he did dabble with the West Coast Offense in 2001/2001 ...

Cowboys go 'West Coast' with Coslet

NFL.com wire reports
IRVING, Texas (Jan. 30, 2002) -- Bruce Coslet has just what the Dallas Cowboys were looking for: A vast knowledge of the West Coast offense. Coslet, the former Cincinnati Bengals and New York Jets head coach, was hired Wednesday as the Cowboys' new offensive coordinator. Cowboys owner Jerry Jones hopes a more up-tempo

Heck, did you know that the term "West Coast Offense" was practically created by the Cowboz?

Check this out ...


How did the term get its name? From Bernie Kosar, when he was a backup quarterback with Dallas in '93. I was doing a piece on the Cowboys. I asked him what the offense was like.

"Oh, you know, the West Coast Offense," he said. "Turner and Zampese and Don Coryell and Sid Gillman. That thing." (Bernie obviously had a good knowledge of NFL history). I used the quote. It was picked up by a West Coast wire reporter, except that he got it screwed up and he attached it to the San Francisco attack that Bill Walsh had used in San Francisco's Super Bowl run of the '80s. What the hell -- San Diego, L.A., San Francisco -- it's all West Coast, isn't it? And that's where it stuck.

WHo knew?

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

With the triplets, Jimmy Johnson as HC and Norv Turner as OC (and of course they still kept it pretty much the same with Switzer that last superbowl)....the team ran a Timing Based passing game and a strong running game.

The only time I remember them running a WCO offense was when Campo was coach and somehow Jerry Jones fell for the crap of Walsh who said that Coslett could install a Version of the WCO.

We did not have the right players for the offense.

That's true BP. Did some research and found out the same thing you're saying.
You say it didn't work because you guys didn't have the right players? Do you think the new draft rookies/FAs could re-create some form of WCO?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's true BP. Did some research and found out the same thing you're saying.
You say it didn't work because you guys didn't have the right players? Do you think the new draft rookies/FAs could re-create some form of WCO?

No. The QB does not support the offense. The WC is not an easy offense to learn. Basically, you'd be asking a 12 year vet to re-learn an offense. Not going to happen. You look at Henson, not very experienced, and Romo, Ditto, and you have two huge obsticals. None of them know the basics, much less the intricases of the WC. That alone would prevent a move to the WC.

You look at the experience of the coaching staff and you realize that the WC will never be as long as Parcells is in Dallas.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Do you think the new draft rookies/FAs could re-create some form of WCO?

Most of the newbies are on D.

We've got a few players I think would play well in a traditional wco (of course most of them today are hybrids), and variations..

One is Jason Witten.

He's got the ideal size for the pure style wco, sufficient agility and what I have been most impressed over the last two season with him is his ability to take a hit at the same second the ball arrives and hang on. (a trait Shockey lacks btw). You're gonna have to face this in a wco. A lot.

That quality isn't so much about toughness as it is about body control and the receiving variety of the wco te needs that in spades. He's got that body type as well..he doesn't block in the style Campbell does, he's a technique blocker and they do well in wcos.

Jason is a guy who will be in geat demand should he ever hit free agency because he's an all purpose type who does both things well, receive and block. And he's got that body control and soft hands. And we know his route running is precise - dangerous combination for the many pass patterns and routes. And he feints well, a tricky kid. Witten is a talent who other teams will look at to bring in because he can be a real impact player in a wco...and kick the whole thing up a notch or two.

My other boy, Al Johnson, he could excel in a wco, too. Agile, pulling center.

Key in his prime would have made a fine wco receiver.

 

[StonetheCrow77]

Dallas does not run a WCO; not since Coslet was OC. Parcells' offense is its own animal altogether. A little background:/QUOTE]

Good research rav.

But like you said, when Coslet was at Dallas, he did dabble with the West Coast Offense in 2001/2001 ...

Cowboys go 'West Coast' with Coslet [url="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/sponsorships.nfl.com/fs/stories;arena=nfl;feat=stories;type=psa;team=DAL;user=Anonymous;cust=no;vip=no;sz=150x30;tile=5;ord=848131118956908?"]http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/sponsorships.nfl.com/fs/stories;arena=nfl;feat=stories;type=psa;team=DAL;user=Anonymous;cust=no;vip=no;sz=150x30;tile=5;ord=848131118956908?[/url]

NFL.com wire reports
IRVING, Texas (Jan. 30, 2002) -- Bruce Coslet has just what the Dallas Cowboys were looking for: A vast knowledge of the West Coast offense. Coslet, the former Cincinnati Bengals and New York Jets head coach, was hired Wednesday as the Cowboys' new offensive coordinator. Cowboys owner Jerry Jones hopes a more up-tempo

Heck, did you know that the term "West Coast Offense" was practically created by the Cowboz?

Check this out ...


How did the term get its name? From Bernie Kosar, when he was a backup quarterback with Dallas in '93. I was doing a piece on the Cowboys. I asked him what the offense was like.

"Oh, you know, the West Coast Offense," he said. "Turner and Zampese and Don Coryell and Sid Gillman. That thing." (Bernie obviously had a good knowledge of NFL history). I used the quote. It was picked up by a West Coast wire reporter, except that he got it screwed up and he attached it to the San Francisco attack that Bill Walsh had used in San Francisco's Super Bowl run of the '80s. What the hell -- San Diego, L.A., San Francisco -- it's all West Coast, isn't it? And that's where it stuck.

WHo knew?

There was a movement a year or two ago to clarify the true West Coast Offense... some people took offense to them tagging the WCO, when it had origins in Middle America and Walsh made it popular... they wanted the Air Coryell Offense to be labeled WC, sine it had origins in the West...

But, don't let that confuse you... Walsh and Coryell ran totally different schemes...

 

[LaTunaNostra]

There was a movement a year or two ago to clarify the true West Coast Offense... some people took offense to them tagging the WCO, when it had origins in Middle America and Walsh made it popular... they wanted the Air Coryell Offense to be labeled WC, sine it had origins in the West...

But, don't let that confuse you... Walsh and Coryell ran totally different schemes...

Yes indeedy, a true WCO QB was Dan Fouts.

Not Joe Montana.

 

[ravidubey]

That's all great info Ravid... My one slight discorse would be in the difference between the cowboys Offense and the Gibbs Offense.

Gibbs used a mobile line to run counters and traps in order to dominate the LOS. That led to very slow developing plays and kept the defense to being forced to not edge blitz. They had to maximize their players in the center to account for blockers. This let him run several deep routes with his WRs.

The Cowboys offense rarely traps or pulls gaurds. Frankly, our gaurds are too slow. However we always had a great full back (to block the LB) and a large enough offensive line to bookend the hole. This did mean however that teams could edge blitz and we had slightly less time to run our routes. We didn't go deep as often accordingly.

There are a lot of good offensive schemes out there today, but not many are that one dimmensional anymore. Parcells loves to say "take what the D gives you" and he lives by that. There will be games where we toss the ball 50 times or run the ball 40 times depending on how we are being played. Incidenly that is exactly the recipe that the Pats have used.

Good info right back at ya. I liked Gibbs' counter offense alot and it did take some good athletes on the OL to run it. I always remember Dallas having such good pass blocking from Emmitt and Moose that you never knew pre-snap if they were part of the pattern or would be left in to block.

I do remember Norv pulling Nate again and again and again on that amazing "Emmitt Drive" in the 1993/1994 Superbowl. Buffalo defenders would just get out of his way after a point. I loved watching big Larry crush Greg Lloyd pulling early on in the 1995/1996 Superbowl. But you're right that pulling wasn't Dallas' thing-- not with Aikman being so accurate an intermediate passer.

I believe Emmitt the blocker managed to screw Emmitt the receiver because Emmitt the blocker was so good it was better to try for Irvin or Novacek than swing a pass to Emmitt. I wished they threw more to him because it was a cheap wa to get him past LB's and into the open field.

 

[Compacity]

Wit=what Is That

 

[ravidubey]

There was a movement a year or two ago to clarify the true West Coast Offense... some people took offense to them tagging the WCO, when it had origins in Middle America and Walsh made it popular... they wanted the Air Coryell Offense to be labeled WC, sine it had origins in the West...

But, don't let that confuse you... Walsh and Coryell ran totally different schemes...

Walsh himself said his offense should really be called the "North Ohio Shore" offense because so much of its roots lie came from Cleveland and Paul Brown!

I think now WCO is popularly associated with Walsh's offense (and used by his various disciples) while Gibbs/Zampese's offense doesn't really have a name other than "Timing Offense". That's been my perception, at least.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I think now WCO is popularly associated with Walsh's offense (and used by his various disciples) while Gibbs/Zampese's offense doesn't really have a name other than "Timing Offense". That's been my perception, at least.

If I recall my history correctly, both Gibbs and Zampese were on Don Coryell's staff at a school in San Diego. They took a lot from Gilman but when Gibbs went to the Skins he put his stamp on his "Variety", which included "bunching the receivers and having them run unexpected routes out of the "bunch".

Zampese supposedly has been truer to his roots, more Gilmanesque with his emphasis on timing. He was in Dallas anyway and he tried to stay as true in NE, a failed experiment. (don't say it, Mikey)

Triva Question: who actually first named it the "west coast offense"?
.

 

[StonetheCrow77]

It was a media guy, I think... Cosell?

 

[LaTunaNostra]

It was a media guy, I think... Cosell?

Not even close...it was a player...a QB...think Cleveland..

 

[StonetheCrow77]

Walsh himself said his offense should really be called the "North Ohio Shore" offense because so much of its roots lie came from Cleveland and Paul Brown!

I think now WCO is popularly associated with Walsh's offense (and used by his various disciples) while Gibbs/Zampese's offense doesn't really have a name other than "Timing Offense". That's been my perception, at least.

I think you have to attribute Hank Stram when you mention Walsh...

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I think you have to attribute Hank Stram when you mention Walsh...

Len Dawson used to gripe it was Stram had invented it.

One thing he gets credit for inventing tho, is the moving pocket.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Wit=what Is That

\\

GI = got it!:

 

[StonetheCrow77]

Not even close...it was a player...a QB...think Cleveland..

LaTuna... you got me on this one... I remember reading a SI article about the difference in Air Coryell and WCO... they mentioned how this offense got tagged WCO and how Walsh made it fad in SF, but I don't remember who they said it was...

 

[Hostile]

Triva Question: who actually first named it the "west coast offense"?
.

Sid Gilman

What do I win?

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Sid Gilman

What do I win?

The booby prize.

You're wrong.

http://users2.ev1.net/~jamrtm/wcohistory.html

Credit the much-overused moniker to former NFL quarterback Bernie Kosar, a history buff of sorts and enough of a student of the game to realize that the rudiments of the basic design merged concepts of masterful offensive visionaries like Gillman, Walsh, Don Coryell, Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner and Ernie Zampese. Yeah, you guessed it -- all guys with geographic ties to the West Coast.

 

[Hostile]

The booby prize.

You're wrong.

http://users2.ev1.net/~jamrtm/wcohistory.html

I misread the question. Wouldn't have got it right anyway. Sig Gilman was one of the innovators of it under Paul Brown.

 

[jobberone]

If you go all the way back to Paul Brown you can see the individual variations while seeing the "WCO" morph and evolve and rotate around each pupil into generations now.

Bill uses the very old tried and true play action multiple read offense probably run best first by Johnny U.

You don't have to have a Johnny U or Elway to run that offense effectively. You have to have someone like Aikman to a less capable QB who can run the bus without making mistakes.

You just want to move the chains as much as possible, score as many TDs in the red zone as you can, set the D up for the pass with the run rather than the other way around, make less mistakes and get more turnovers, and win field position with the above and ST play. It's old school and probably played best by the early 90s Cowboys then the 60s Packers and before that the Colts. Brown was just more inventive that Lombardi and so was Landry. Walsh took it another direction with a pass first offense based on Rice and Montana with a compliment of good WRs and a pretty good running game set up by the passing game.

They aren't that different though.

I'm very proud of the early 90s Cowboys though. Very proud indeed.

Let me get out of here before someone mentions the Pats though.