We are not very good, and I'm fading

[ScipioCowboy]

I'll give it one last shot while trying a slightly different tact.

Ah, a postmodernist? If so, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this. I believe there is a fixed, desirable state of being that has to do with focus. As Winifred Gallagher, author of Rapt, says: “if you could just stay focused on the right things, your life would stop feeling like a reaction to stuff that happens to you and become something that you create: not a series of accidents, but a work of art.”

Can you direct us to this modern NFL player(s) who has achieved this "fixed, desirable state of being" and, thus, exists without the distraction of media saturation?

 

[Awakened]

No, not even close. Postmodern? Please. I am not talking focus. Focus is needed and as it pertains to Romo I'd say all evidence shows he has it in spades.

I am talking about perceived distractions. What you personally think is a distraction in todays world is based on your experiences. You put yourself in the the place of todays athlete and say to yourself that they have to be distracted because or twitter, TMZ, constant media, whatever.

What I am saying is that all things are relative to your experience. Todays athlete grew up in this environment. They don't have the experience of how it used to be. They are used to the media as it is so it does not cause them to be as distracted as you would assume. It does not mean that focus is unimportant, it was and will continue to be. What is does mean is that what can cause a person to lose focus is not constant and is dependant on experience. If you are used to something it does not distract to the same degree.

Well, I disagree, and there is plenty of research to back up my position (though I'm not claiming it's a settled fact; there is definitely informed opinion on both sides). Stanford U did a study last year to ascertain where multitaskers perform better than those who tend to focus on one thing at a time. Their conclusion: nothing. It was pretty stunning.

In other words, I believe (along with a lot of other folks) that we as a culture are re-defining "normal" as the great majority have a dwindling capability for prolonged, sustained, focused attention.

 

[CATCH17]

Well, I disagree, and there is plenty of research to back up my position (though I'm not claiming it's a settled fact; there is definitely informed opinion on both sides). Stanford U did a study last year to ascertain where multitaskers perform better than those who tend to focus on one thing at a time. Their conclusion: nothing. It was pretty stunning.

In other words, I believe (along with a lot of other folks) that we as a culture are re-defining "normal" as the great majority have a dwindling capability for prolonged, sustained, focused attention.

Because of posts like this!

 

[CIWhitefish]

Well, I disagree, and there is plenty of research to back up my position (though I'm not claiming it's a settled fact; there is definitely informed opinion on both sides). Stanford U did a study last year to ascertain where multitaskers perform better than those who tend to focus on one thing at a time. Their conclusion: nothing. It was pretty stunning.

In other words, I believe (along with a lot of other folks) that we as a culture are re-defining "normal" as the great majority have a dwindling capability for prolonged, sustained, focused attention.

You are getting lost in the weeds and obviously not getting my point. Ah the dangers of the message board. Let's try to bring this on home. You are assuming that Romo is trying to multitask (football, media, high profile GFs etc) too much and as a result can't focus as much as he wants or should on football. As a result he is distracted. Am I close here?

My point is that he is not as distracted by it all as you assume. It's all relative. Is there are point of dimminishing returns with what a person can 'get used to' and still focus and perform at a high level? Sure. Romo ain't there tho. In fact, several others (as already pointed out) are at a much higher level then he is and seem to be doing just fine thanks.

 

[Awakened]

I'll give it one last shot while trying a slightly different tact.


Can you direct us to this modern NFL player(s) who has achieved this "fixed, desirable state of being" and, thus, exists without the distraction of media saturation?

Hmmm, it doesn't seem like you really want to debate, but ok...

This question is impossible to answer. I mean, this entire conversation is based on speculation, right? What I can say is that this is a nuanced assessment. Surely it's obvious that there would be a continuum, with one end being severely distracted (like those countless folks with ADHD) and the other end being, I don't know, Monks (or maybe Hostile - he seems pretty focused on the Cowboys). So people would fit somewhere along that continuum. The epitome of football focus back in the 80's was Mike Singletary, with those eyes. I sat here and tried to think of who I would see as being more focused, but that's a hopeless endeavor. It would be pure speculation.

Anticipating your point that I am purely speculating about Romo, let me offer another piece of evidence other than his celebrity lifestyle. When the pressure has been on, hasn't Romo had more lapses in performance/ decision-making than other QB's such as Brady, Brees, & Manning? Couldn't this be a symptom of a lack of mental sharpness? He's obviously intelligent, but what I am talking about is mental sharpness, mental quickness, mental agility.

 

[Hostile]

Awakened...

I will ask you again. Can you please provide me a link to Tony Romo's legit Facebook page where he spends his time, and his legit Twitter account where he spends time?

If not, what does that tell you about your stance without any coaching from me?

 

[Awakened]

You are getting lost in the weeds and obviously not getting my point. Ah the dangers of the message board. Let's try to bring this on home. You are assuming that Romo is trying to multitask (football, media, high profile GFs etc) too much and as a result can't focus as much as he wants or should on football. As a result he is distracted. Am I close here?

My point is that he is not as distracted by it all as you assume. It's all relative. Is there are point of dimminishing returns with what a person can 'get used to' and still focus and perform at a high level? Sure. Romo ain't there tho. In fact, several others (as already pointed out) are at a much higher level then he is and seem to be doing just fine thanks.

Our conversation seems to have reached a stopping point. We disagree, but I've enjoyed the exchange. Believe it or not, I hope you're right!

 

[Hostile]

Hmmm, it doesn't seem like you really want to debate, but ok...

This question is impossible to answer. I mean, this entire conversation is based on speculation, right? What I can say is that this is a nuanced assessment. Surely it's obvious that there would be a continuum, with one end being severely distracted (like those countless folks with ADHD) and the other end being, I don't know, Monks (or maybe Hostile - he seems pretty focused on the Cowboys). So people would fit somewhere along that continuum. The epitome of football focus back in the 80's was Mike Singletary, with those eyes. I sat here and tried to think of who I would see as being more focused, but that's a hopeless endeavor. It would be pure speculation.

Anticipating your point that I am purely speculating about Romo, let me offer another piece of evidence other than his celebrity lifestyle. When the pressure has been on, hasn't Romo had more lapses in performance/ decision-making than other QB's such as Brady, Brees, & Manning? Couldn't this be a symptom of a lack of mental sharpness? He's obviously intelligent, but what I am talking about is mental sharpness, mental quickness, mental agility.

In the last paragrpah, how come you didn't mention the years Manning was perceived as incapable of winning the big game? Dated all the way back to college.

Do you like Packers QB Aaron Rogers?

What about Vikings QB and NFL legend Brett Favre?

Donovan McNabb?

I'd like honest answers to those questions.

 

[esloan]

After seeing your "arguments" about Romo being a "celebrity" football player, despite all evidence that he is not and that Manning, Brady, Sanders, Irvin et. al. were, its obvious that you think this way because the media has told you to think this way.

Manning and Brady do the same damn things that Romo does and more. They golf, they have more TV deals, Brady has a celebrity wife. There really is no difference. Except for two things:

• They have won Super Bowls
• They do not play for the Dallas Cowboys

Thats it. Nothing more.

Romo has been a hard worker his entire time on the team. You do not go from an undrafted rookie free agent to a record holding starting QB on a Playoff team by not working hard. It is ridiculous to think otherwise.

 

[CIWhitefish]

After seeing your "arguments" about Romo being a "celebrity" football player, despite all evidence that he is not and that Manning, Brady, Sanders, Irvin et. al. were, its obvious that you think this way because the media has told you to think this way.

Manning and Brady do the same damn things that Romo does and more. They golf, they have more TV deals, Brady has a celebrity wife. There really is no difference. Except for two things:

• They have won Super Bowls
• They do not play for the Dallas Cowboys

Thats it. Nothing more.

Romo has been a hard worker his entire time on the team. You do not go from an undrafted rookie free agent to a record holding starting QB on a Playoff team by not working hard. It is ridiculous to think otherwise.

Perfect.

 

[Awakened]

In the last paragrpah, how come you didn't mention the years Manning was perceived as incapable of winning the big game? Dated all the way back to college.

Do you like Packers QB Aaron Rogers?

What about Vikings QB and NFL legend Brett Favre?

Donovan McNabb?

I'd like honest answers to those questions.

OK...

1) I didn't know that about Manning (again, you know A LOT more about these guy's history than I).
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) No

Before you go there, a "settled"/ less distracted lifestyle does not guarantee greatness for NFL QB's. If that was true, Stephen King would be dominating the NFL. It is simply one of many factors.

 

[laythewood28]

After seeing your "arguments" about Romo being a "celebrity" football player, despite all evidence that he is not and that Manning, Brady, Sanders, Irvin et. al. were, its obvious that you think this way because the media has told you to think this way.

Manning and Brady do the same damn things that Romo does and more. They golf, they have more TV deals, Brady has a celebrity wife. There really is no difference. Except for two things:

• They have won Super Bowls
• They do not play for the Dallas Cowboys

Thats it. Nothing more.

Romo has been a hard worker his entire time on the team. You do not go from an undrafted rookie free agent to a record holding starting QB on a Playoff team by not working hard. It is ridiculous to think otherwise.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Hmmm, it doesn't seem like you really want to debate, but ok...

This question is impossible to answer. I mean, this entire conversation is based on speculation, right? What I can say is that this is a nuanced assessment. Surely it's obvious that there would be a continuum, with one end being severely distracted (like those countless folks with ADHD) and the other end being, I don't know, Monks (or maybe Hostile - he seems pretty focused on the Cowboys). So people would fit somewhere along that continuum. The epitome of football focus back in the 80's was Mike Singletary, with those eyes. I sat here and tried to think of who I would see as being more focused, but that's a hopeless endeavor. It would be pure speculation.

In essence, you're criticizing Romo for his alleged inability to meet a completely arbitrary standard for concentration and focus--a standard that you created. Fair enough, as many standards are completely arbitrary. However, when pressed on this standard, you can't identify a single modern NFL player who meets it.

Herein lies the fallacy within your entire line of argumentation. Romo does not exist in a vacuum. He exists as part of a continuum of NFL players who all face the same issue associated with media saturation.

Your contention that Romo must somehow isolate himself from modern society in order to be successful is rooted on nothing than some emotional reaction you derived from watching Mike Singletary in the 80s and the 90s Cowboys.

Anticipating your point that I am purely speculating about Romo, let me offer another piece of evidence other than his celebrity lifestyle. When the pressure has been on, hasn't Romo had more lapses in performance/ decision-making than other QB's such as Brady, Brees, & Manning? Couldn't this be a symptom of a lack of mental sharpness? He's obviously intelligent, but what I am talking about is mental sharpness, mental quickness, mental agility.

Actually, as numerous posters have shown on this board, Romo's rating in "late and close" situation is among the best in the league.

 

[Awakened]

After seeing your "arguments" about Romo being a "celebrity" football player, despite all evidence that he is not and that Manning, Brady, Sanders, Irvin et. al. were, its obvious that you think this way because the media has told you to think this way.

Manning and Brady do the same damn things that Romo does and more. They golf, they have more TV deals, Brady has a celebrity wife. There really is no difference. Except for two things:

• They have won Super Bowls
• They do not play for the Dallas Cowboys

Thats it. Nothing more.

Romo has been a hard worker his entire time on the team. You do not go from an undrafted rookie free agent to a record holding starting QB on a Playoff team by not working hard. It is ridiculous to think otherwise.

esloan, I like the way you think. I'd like you on my team in a debate, but you are ignoring my definition of a celebrity athlete and that fact that I offered Brady as one who has beat the odds, the exception to the rule (an exception to a rule doesn't disprove a rule).

I never said Romo isn't a hard worker (at least I don't think I did).

Look for my next post to further answer your post here.

 

[Awakened]

I've noticed that nobody has responded to this point that I made a while back...

Here's another point: Is there really anybody who believes dating megastars Jessica Simpson, Carrie Underwood, and Candice Crawford (have there been others?) would be less distracting than being married to the same woman for multiple years? Really? I'm not talking about the fact that these woman are beautiful, but each of them brings with them TONS of drama and media focus. This is a HUGE FACTOR in the difference in the celebrity lifestyle of Romo vs. Manning and Brees.

C'mon, can't somebody at least concede this one point?

 

[CIWhitefish]

I've noticed that nobody has responded to this point that I made a while back...

Here's another point: Is there really anybody who believes dating megastars Jessica Simpson, Carrie Underwood, and Candice Crawford (have there been others?) would be less distracting than being married to the same woman for multiple years? Really? I'm not talking about the fact that these woman are beautiful, but each of them brings with them TONS of drama and media focus. This is a HUGE FACTOR in the difference in the celebrity lifestyle of Romo vs. Manning and Brees.

C'mon, can't somebody at least concede this one point?

If you are comparing being married and the media not caring to dating a starlet with all the media attention in a vacuum then sure, it would be more distracting on that point only. But you are assuming that the responsibilties of family and marriage don't factor in and cannot in themselves cause a distraction.

If your only focus is media attention on your female companion then yes Romo is more distracted then just about anyone in the history of the NFL. If you want to look at the whole picture then he's not even close.

 

[Hostile]

OK...

1) I didn't know that about Manning (again, you know A LOT more about these guy's history than I).
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) No

Before you go there, a "settled"/ less distracted lifestyle does not guarantee greatness for NFL QB's. If that was true, Stephen King would be dominating the NFL. It is simply one of many factors.

1. Do you even realize how much you have admitted you don't know about the overall subject matter you brought up?

2. Rodgers has never won a playoff game. Yet you like him and find Romo "feminized."

3. There is not a bigger yearly media distraction than the will Brett retire or won't he parades.

4. Good. I am actually shocked.

 

[Hostile]

I've noticed that nobody has responded to this point that I made a while back...

Here's another point: Is there really anybody who believes dating megastars Jessica Simpson, Carrie Underwood, and Candice Crawford (have there been others?) would be less distracting than being married to the same woman for multiple years? Really? I'm not talking about the fact that these woman are beautiful, but each of them brings with them TONS of drama and media focus. This is a HUGE FACTOR in the difference in the celebrity lifestyle of Romo vs. Manning and Brees.

C'mon, can't somebody at least concede this one point?

How long has Kurt Warner been married to Brenda? Was she in the background his entire career?

How long has Brett Favre been married to Deanna? Was her cancer a distraction?

Troy Wasn't married when he played. He dated starlets. You've propped Troy as a deity of football yet denounce Romo for the same exact habits.

Do you want me to go on? I can knock this out of the park if you want me to push it.

How come you have ignored my twice asked question about Romo's Facebook and Twitter accounts?

 

[esloan]

I've noticed that nobody has responded to this point that I made a while back...

Here's another point: Is there really anybody who believes dating megastars Jessica Simpson, Carrie Underwood, and Candice Crawford (have there been others?) would be less distracting than being married to the same woman for multiple years? Really? I'm not talking about the fact that these woman are beautiful, but each of them brings with them TONS of drama and media focus. This is a HUGE FACTOR in the difference in the celebrity lifestyle of Romo vs. Manning and Brees.

C'mon, can't somebody at least concede this one point?

Wait.....Candice Crawford is a megastar? She is a journalist for God's sake. Romo dated Carrie Underwood for all of a few weeks, he is relationship with Simpson was completely and utterly blown out of proportion. He dated her and the media made it a big deal, as did Cowboys fans. It had little to no effect on his play.

As far as your second point is concerned no not really. Romo stayed focused the entire time he was dating Simpson and Underwood and his relationship with Crawford is pretty well under the radar.

Troy Aikman, that paragon of non-celebrity greatness (according to you), dated Lorrie Morgan, Janine Turner and Sandra Bullock during his career as a Cowboy. Nah, thats not celebrity, huh?

You need to realize that in today's NFL every player is a celebrity. Much less the star QB of America's Team. It doesn't matter what they do or do not do, they are celebrities. Manning appears on SNL, Brady marries Gisele, Brees writes a New York Times bestseller. They are all celebrities. Every NFL player has to deal with it. Some are more successful than others.



Considering Romo has broken nearly every Cowboys passing record, is the first QB in NFL history with his first 4 seasons over a 90 QBR, has been to four straight Pro-Bowls and his number 3 all-time in passer rating, I would say he has handled it rather well.

There is one thing that he has not yet done and that is win a Super Bowl. I took Peyton Manning, one of the greatest QBs in NFL history, seven seasons to win his first Super Bowl. Seven.

Guess his celebrity status really got to him for the first six, huh?

 

[Awakened]

Can I wrap this thread up? (At least my participation in it) I've written more posts the last couple of days than in the previous two years! I've got to move on for now, back to the background.

Hostile, let me just say that we seem to be speaking past each other regarding the impact of new media technology. While the question as to whether Romo has a twitter or Facebook account is relevant, it does not determine the level at which he is entwined in new media celebritydom (yes, I made that word up).

I've enjoyed debating this stuff with you guys, for the most part. I especially enjoyed it after we got past your emotional reaction (including name calling and put downs) to my emotional reaction, and debated the points.

I can honestly say that I have learned some things in the process - particularly about Romo - that have probably made me a little more hopeful about him. I'm not saying I'm a big believer in him now, but maybe I have over-estimated the level to which he indulges in the lifestyle of a celebrity and underestimated his determination. Maybe. So thanks for that. As I've admitted repeatedly, most of you are better informed about the histories and current lifestyles of these guys than I am.

So, with that, I thank you and bid this thread farewell.