We just don't draft well...

[L-O-Jete]

I heard that Parcells spent most of his time at Valley Ranch doing sodoku and sneaking up behind people in the hallways yelling "YOU GOT SUCKED" as loud as he could. Jeff Ireland pretty much took care of everything.

HEY! Don't knock sudoku dude. It's not kool.

 

[Monster Heel]

Over the past little while I have been pleased with our drafting. Not really a huge concern for me at this time. I would say some of our signings/trades could be improved.

Hello Jerry.

This basically.

The worst thing going with this team is all of the bad FO moves. Hamlin, Gurode, Newman, Roy SS [prior to his dismal], and possibly Barber's extensions were all bad moves imo. Then you get into the bad aquistions such as Pacman, Tank, Zach Thomas and possibly the biggest blunder in Roy WR. I'm hoping letting Canty walk is a sign that we're getting better in this regard. Too many average (or worse) production players and training room allstars being signed to extensions and/or being brought in the first place.

 

[Hoofbite]

This basically.

The worst thing going with this team is all of the bad FO moves. Hamlin, Gurode, Newman, Roy SS [prior to his dismal], and possibly Barber's extensions were all bad moves imo. Then you get into the bad aquistions such as Pacman, Tank, Zach Thomas and possibly the biggest blunder in Roy WR. I'm hoping letting Canty walk is a sign that we're getting better in this regard. Too many average (or worse) production and training room allstars being signed to extensions and/or being brought in the first place.

So its pretty safe to say that you don't agree with a single thing Jerry has done.

Gotcha.

And how do you classify a bad move? If none of those signings have or will negatively impact the cap, what does it matter?

 

[cobra]

Is that tag line under your user name a 'get out of jail free card' for treating other posters so poorly and turning every thread into an argument.

No. Not in the least. But it is a recognition that I can be rather salty, and it is nothing personal to the individual in question. It seems like the guy thought I was attacking him personally, and that's not the case.

See, I think the problem with this website is the ridiculous, repetitive whining about the same crap over and over and over and over in these threads.

Every thread I read these days, there are people saying this player sucks or that player sucks or that Jerry screwed this up or that Wade is the problem with that or that if we had only gotten/kept/cut/bent-over-backwards for Player X, then we would have won a Super Bowl by now. And on and on.

Here is a thread about drafting. A fairly straight-forward issue to evaluate. And in the middle of a discussion about it, we have a guy come barrelling in whining "None of this matters; we haven't won a playoff game; they all suck; screw them." That is what it is annoying.

This team is not horrible. It is not a disgrace. Romo is not the Fat Devil. Roy Williams is not a high school-caliber scrub. Jerry Jones is not the worst owner. Jason Garrett is not a talentless ******.

Yet, reading this site, you'd think all of the above is true.

Our team needs to get over a hump, and it is frustrating that we have not done so. We've been good and competitive, but we can't seem to get over the hump into a championship team. But that frustration does not give free reign to hyperbolic pessimism. And how much of that I'm seeing is getting painful to behold.

So my apologies for having no patience for all the hand-wringing "golly-gee we suck" garbage. But I'm tired of it. You think this team is bad? How easily you forget the 5-11 years. Should we be happy with our finishes the last few? Of course not. But we also should not be acting like whiney piss-ants complaining that everything sucks and there is no chance we will win a playoff game with ___.

 

[Monster Heel]

So its pretty safe to say that you don't agree with a single thing Jerry has done.

Gotcha.

And how do you classify a bad move? If none of those signings have or will negatively impact the cap, what does it matter?

Bit of an extreme take on my thoughts. There are plenty of moves I didn't comment on.

I think Romo's extension was good. I'm neutral on Adams' signing, if he can string together a decent season this year, he's been worth it because there was no other alternative. Leonard Davis and Terrell Owens were excellent acquistions, even if TO eventually blew up in Jerry's face. I could go on, but if I didn't comment on it, I don't have a problem with the move or I like it.

Bad moves are players who's production don't match their contract and/or the headache they create and/or proclude the team from pursuing a better alternative. The cap determines who we can go sign or trade for. When you go trade for a guy like Roy E Williams you can't hop up and go trade for say Anquan Boldin. Or when you sign Gurode to an extension, it procludes you from getting a more competent center like say Jason Brown later on. I understand that Gurode was who was available when the Cowboys extended him, but he's not worth what he is being paid and he procludes the Cowboys from getting a better center. The Cowboys should've played hard ball and drafted a player if worse came to worst.

 

[Big Dakota]

If anything Jerry has relied too much on free agency

 

[Everlastingxxx]

No. Not in the least. But it is a recognition that I can be rather salty, and it is nothing personal to the individual in question. It seems like the guy thought I was attacking him personally, and that's not the case.

See, I think the problem with this website is the ridiculous, repetitive whining about the same crap over and over and over and over in these threads.

Every thread I read these days, there are people saying this player sucks or that player sucks or that Jerry screwed this up or that Wade is the problem with that or that if we had only gotten/kept/cut/bent-over-backwards for Player X, then we would have won a Super Bowl by now. And on and on.

Here is a thread about drafting. A fairly straight-forward issue to evaluate. And in the middle of a discussion about it, we have a guy come barrelling in whining "None of this matters; we haven't won a playoff game; they all suck; screw them." That is what it is annoying.

This team is not horrible. It is not a disgrace. Romo is not the Fat Devil. Roy Williams is not a high school-caliber scrub. Jerry Jones is not the worst owner. Jason Garrett is not a talentless ******.

Yet, reading this site, you'd think all of the above is true.

Our team needs to get over a hump, and it is frustrating that we have not done so. We've been good and competitive, but we can't seem to get over the hump into a championship team. But that frustration does not give free reign to hyperbolic pessimism. And how much of that I'm seeing is getting painful to behold.

So my apologies for having no patience for all the hand-wringing "golly-gee we suck" garbage. But I'm tired of it. You think this team is bad? How easily you forget the 5-11 years. Should we be happy with our finishes the last few? Of course not. But we also should not be acting like whiney piss-ants complaining that everything sucks and there is no chance we will win a playoff game with ___.

You really need to take a break. Go take a walk at the park. Read a good book. Do something relaxing...really. Training camp is still a month away and you are on the verge of a mental break-down. LOL.

 

[Seven]

While I agree with our inability to draft OL, I disagree with our inability to draft well as a whole. I think our failures lie elsewhere...i.e. coaching, dumb trades, and stupid FA additions.

El Nail-o..............

 

[jterrell]

LOL.

We did NOT draft well in the 90's when we fell into the toilet.

We have drafted well for the most part since Big Bill was first hired. Yes, he had the occasional bonehead pick but when he stuck to the scouting reports he got players in here.

The Giants and Eagles had good drafts THIS year... WE THINK.

They haven't been over the top good for the recent past. In fact Philly has just been bad period. Brod Bunkley, Winston Justice et al....

The Giants have been much better than the Eagles and probably about even with us. They've drafted a lot of good young defenders but that may well be due to system. We'll see how many make Pro Bowls sans Spags.

The Giants offensive picks have been pretty overrated. Eli is a solid QB but he was a first overall pick and has been outplayed by the guy the Giants traded for him, Philip Rivers. Not exactly draft magic there. Steve Smith gets a lot of love but he hasn't much of anything. He's a mid tier slot guy and nothing more.

 

[CATCH17]

cobra is killing it in this thread.

 

[jterrell]

Parcells brought in a process for drafting that has worked well. Identify the types of players you want and stick to that formula. But Parcells' pet cats, his personal choices. usually high in the draft, where he is known to have gone against the scouts advice, were generally bad. Bad Oline choices. Carpenter. Marcus Spears over Demarcus Ware.

Once we did get his system style in the drafting room, we did start hitting on low end draft picks. And that carried through his poor choices in the first couple of rounds.

^^

QFT.

 

[jterrell]

cobra is killing it in this thread.

I understand his frustration.

Nothing worse than the deluded few who can't tell the difference between 9-7 and 2-14. Especially when that 9-7 comes after some touch breaks in the injury department and against a heinously difficult schedule.

 

[Big Dakota]

I'm with you completely. I count Romo and the others as picks because they aren't cast-offs of other teams... no one else wanted them, and we did, so it shows our smarts IMO.

Actually a lot of teams wanted Romo, not only that but he took less cash to come here because he thought he had a good opertunity in Dallas.

 

[Tyronosaurus77]

This thread confuses me, like most of the dillusional posts on here.

I don't think there are many teams out there that have drafted better than us over the years.

I tease a guy at work who is a Viking fan because he envies our drafts because not one player other than Udeze who has been injured is still around from the Mike Tice reign.

Look at the last few years 4th - 7th round picks, and you will see that this thread holds zero water

 

[Idgit]

You really need to take a break. Go take a walk at the park. Read a good book. Do something relaxing...really. Training camp is still a month away and you are on the verge of a mental break-down. LOL.

No way. Cobra, stay here and fight the good fight.

 

[28 Joker]

Parcells brought in a process for drafting that has worked well. Identify the types of players you want and stick to that formula. But Parcells' pet cats, his personal choices. usually high in the draft, where he is known to have gone against the scouts advice, were generally bad. Bad Oline choices. Carpenter. Marcus Spears over Demarcus Ware.

Once we did get his system style in the drafting room, we did start hitting on low end draft picks. And that carried through his poor choices in the first couple of rounds.

That is a really good post.

Plus, it goes back to the offensive line drafting.

Jeff Ireland was an extension of Bill Parcells' eyes, and the offensive linemen which Ireland took in 2007 were straight off the Bill Parcells' template (lighter, quicker, more athletic guys; not power guys).

After Jacob Rodgers, Stephen Peterman (was injured really bad; doing well now), Pat McQuistan, E.J. Whitley, and Al Johnson were big misses, Dallas should have taken the reigns away from Jeff Ireland before the 2007 draft.

Leaving the draft in Ireland's hands led to Doug Free and James Marten being taken, and that Free pick is looking very ominous for the Cowboys unless something happens this year. Also, guys like Joe Berger and Cory Proctor fit the finesse mold. The Isaiah Stanback pick was a Jeff Ireland special. By the time you develop a guy like that, after a position change, it's going to be time for him to leave.

All of those Irleand/Parcells offensive line picks were finesse guys, and that is why I have some hope for Robert Brewster. He's not going to be a finesse player. He has size, and he is going to get stronger. They say he has great feet for a big guy. He needs a year to get stronger and learn his technique. He could be a RT or a guard, imo.



While the Bengals were choosing between Palmer and Newman in 2003, Parcells wanted to take the DT from Kentucky. That fits his drafting m.o. I heard that Jerry and Stephen Jones took Parcells to dinner before the draft and told him that they were going to take Terence Newman.

Nevertheless, Parcells really raved about Newman's work ethic and called him "one of our very, very best players".
Parcells was really good for Newman. In 2004, Parcells told Newman to play tight or press and don't worry about getting beat. The guy could coach and motivate. He knew football. Aaron Glenn was a great signing, and I'm sure he helped Newman.

The offensive line, the quarterback (before Romo), the kicker, and the safety position hurt Parcells. The talent level was down right putrid when he arrived in Dallas. Also, I think he needed a young 34 defensive coordinator.

 

[Kangaroo]

Whaa, whaa, whaa.

That's what this comes down to. We haven't had success for whatever reason so fans with sand in their vaginas look for things to blame. And it is not the drafting. It's not the talent.

But to correct your mistake, we were actually in the 2nd round of the playoffs 2 years ago. So "no playoff games" is wrong. We lost to the eventual champions.

Yes, I'd like more success. Yes, I'd like to win some playoff games and, god-willing, a Super Bowl.

But I think we have a good team that is a step away from doing that.

To whine and ***** and throw tantrums with your panties in a bunch is annoying... and short-sighted. How quickly you forget the really lean years with QC.

How about a little optimism instead of

Funny how many times did it take the a "**** these guys, they're all losers" attitude?

I mean come one people how many times did it take the great drafting Eagles to get over the freakin playoff win hump. The Colts anyone how many years for them :bang2::bang2::bang2:

Manning was all but being laughed at in NY and all of a sudden he breaks threw and what about last year did he become stupid again :bang2::bang2:

 

[Hoofbite]

Bit of an extreme take on my thoughts. There are plenty of moves I didn't comment on.

I think Romo's extension was good. I'm neutral on Adams' signing, if he can string together a decent season this year, he's been worth it because there was no other alternative. Leonard Davis and Terrell Owens were excellent acquistions, even if TO eventually blew up in Jerry's face. I could go on, but if I didn't comment on it, I don't have a problem with the move or I like it.

Bad moves are players who's production don't match their contract and/or the headache they create and/or proclude the team from pursuing a better alternative. The cap determines who we can go sign or trade for. When you go trade for a guy like Roy E Williams you can't hop up and go trade for say Anquan Boldin. Or when you sign Gurode to an extension, it procludes you from getting a more competent center like say Jason Brown later on. I understand that Gurode was who was available when the Cowboys extended him, but he's not worth what he is being paid and he procludes the Cowboys from getting a better center. The Cowboys should've played hard ball and drafted a player if worse came to worst.

Aside from an errant shotgun snap here and there, Gurode is actually pretty solid. And I'm not so sure you are aware of his contract. 6 years for 30 million is pretty damn good IMO. If you are okay with Leonard's 50 million, I don't see how you can legitimately complain about paying a quality center almost 20 million less.

And the contract Brown just received is WAY MORE than Gurode is getting paid.....

37 million over 5 years with 20 of it guaranteed.

And really, the argument is ridiculous. You can't just hold out on signing guys on the hopes and dreams that a better player will be available. Just doesn't work like that. If you have a quality guy to resign to a reasonable contract, why not?

Also, aside from TO, who else has caused so much of a headache that they haven't been worth their contract? Nobody.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

I disagree with the OP but I grade Drafts on a different scale than most people do. I believe backups are more valuable than some do. Having a guy provide depth at a position for 4 years is more successful than finding backups every single year. The idea that every Draft pick should turn out to be a starter is nonsense. Just looking at our last 5 drafts we find this.

2005...4 players still on the team. All starters. 3 have been to Pro Bowls. 2 of those picks made it to this year before moving on.

2006...4 players still on the team. 1 player traded away or he might still be on the team.

2007...7 players still on the team. 3 starters. 1 has been to the Pro Bowl.

2008...5 players still on the team. 1 starter. All contribute.

2009...Haven't even played to be judged yet. I expect 8 or more to make this team.

28 or more players from 5 years worth of Drafts. I'd call that good drafting.

Let's start with 34-32's first draft, 2003. Terrence Newman, no brainer. Witten, highest ranked TE on the board at that time in the draft. Bradie James was a pretty good pick though. The other four? Slop.

2004, Parcell's second draft. 7 picks, one still with the team. Of those 7, one single handedly gave up almost all of the yards in the last drive before half in a particular game in January against the Giants in 2007.

2005, you outlined very well.

2006, Garbage all the way around. Bobby Carpenter as a 1st round pick? Nah, we wouldn't want the very next pick, Antonio Cromartie, on our team. Besides, we won't have any issues with the secondary in the near future, right? Right? Fasano? Green? Whitley? Stanley?

For those keeping track at home, Parcell's went 1 for 6 on drafting Offensive Lineman which was supposedly his strength. Only McQuistan is still here, for now.

2007. Spencer might be a great player yet. I can't say that I would take anyone else later in the first round over him.

2008. Man that's one honey of a draft for us right now. 5 of those players are starting quality for us or for 2/3rds of the rest of the NFL. I have HUGE hopes for Walden, that kid deserves a break.

2009, jury is surely out on it. If we get 50% retention, we've done good. I will say that there are going to be at least a few more 34-32 draftees unemployed after this training camp.

I think as things stand now, Parcell's drafts were mediocre at best. We know where Jerry had to step in, Demarcus, and where other coaches were the main influence in a player's decision, Romo.

Overall, I say that our drafts in the last three seasons look much better than the previous 5 seasons, and a few of the Parcell's era picks/drafts made you harken back to the Campo era.

At best I give Dallas a middle C for drafting this decade. Jerry's decision to take Demarcus early and 2008's class raise that from the D+ I would otherwise have given it.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Aside from an errant shotgun snap here and there, Gurode is actually pretty solid. And I'm not so sure you are aware of his contract. 6 years for 30 million is pretty damn good IMO. If you are okay with Leonard's 50 million, I don't see how you can legitimately complain about paying a quality center almost 20 million less.

And the contract Brown just received is WAY MORE than Gurode is getting paid.....

37 million over 5 years with 20 of it guaranteed.

And really, the argument is ridiculous. You can't just hold out on signing guys on the hopes and dreams that a better player will be available. Just doesn't work like that. If you have a quality guy to resign to a reasonable contract, why not?

Also, aside from TO, who else has caused so much of a headache that they haven't been worth their contract? Nobody.

#31/38? You could also argue that Hamlin really slipped last season after his extension also. However, T-New had a bad sophomore season so I'm willing to extend that benefit of the doubt to a veteran on a new team as well. Then again, I'm willing to retract it knowing that Holmgren chastised Hamlin for sometimes being out of place in the secondary, as did Seattle's other safety.