Were you on board?

[rcaldw]

If this was a process that came to fruition, ... somebody, ... SOMEBODY, would have seen this coming.

Nobody saw this coming.

This is more like they realized that the 4 yr process was not working so, .. "let's try something else."

It's also a little offensive to be called a hater, .. you couldn't be more wrong.

Nah, don't agree. And I didn't see your name beside "hater." So, unless it applies, don't insert it there.

 

[ConstantReboot]

On a 56 yarder? Coach, and its not even a discussion.

LOL I disagree. Do you think he'll decide otherwise if Bailey WASN'T kicking it? Bailey was the sole reason why he decided to kick that field goal. He didn't decide to kick it because he a head coach. Think about it.....

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I think it is a complete stretch to now say "the process worked". Nothing in the past ever looked as if the process was working, nor was there any indication that it was working.
It is not like we have been seeing improvement week to week, game to game, season after season.

Instead, it has been the same mistakes, similar blunders, .. losing games we shouldn't, .. always going 8-8.

This has all come out of nowhere.

Several things have fallen into place this season:
Linehan has been great with play calling and sticking to the run.
Marinelli has been great working with what he has.
Rolando McClain has brought an 'attitude' to the defense, and the run-first mentality has brought an 'attitude' to the offense.
Garrett has been great as the "leader of men", and as the walk around coach. He is a personality that commands respect, and I think the players trust him and are behind him.
Our recent drafts have been good and that is showing.

But other than the drafts and our other accumulation of talent, .. this has not been brewing, and growing, and getting better as the results of some process.

You're looking at tangibles. And looking at tangibles you are correct. But the Red homers have said for 3 years that tangibles were meaningless. All the good stuff was happening , just not showing it on the field.

Most of us, based on the tangible evidence would logically come to the conclusion that the Process has always been at work, but its a real stretch to say that all of a sudden with such a dramatic change that the change is 100% the result of the Process. Other factors would be considered as possible contributors. And that doesnt mean that the Process isnt or cant be the major contributor, its simply taking all things into consideration based on the evidence.

And most of us dont even care that much, we're just happy the wins are being stacked on top of wins.

As far as Garrett haters, I dont know that all that many ever really existed. Fans were tired of the mediocrity and the same thing over and over, but were hoping Red got it on track. The fact that Red didnt show any real progress on game day management gave many a reason to doubt the Process. Not that they didnt want it to work, it just didnt show it was working. With Jimmy there was a progress that could be witnessed in results. He started out with a pretty bad roster and the building was obvious. Red started out with a pro bowl QB and TE and an offense he had run for years already. What was seen was a stale, predictable Sunday routine that lacked any creative or imaginative qualities. And if the staleness wasnt enough, this team became consistent at finding new and historical ways to lose.

So if anybody doubted the Process it wasnt because they couldnt see what was happening, it was because they actually did see what was happening on Sundays.

 

[ConstantReboot]

More than likely the coach will catch the blame, it comes along with the job.

They will probably question his decision if its missed. But eventually they all know its up to the player that has to execute and not the coach. In the end, the player gets blamed.

 

[Doomsday101]

They will probably question his decision if its missed. But eventually they all know its up to the player that has to execute and not the coach. In the end, the player gets blamed.

To an extent. If I send Bailey out for a 40 and he misses that is on the player but if I'm asking him to hit a 56 yarder it is hard to put it on him. That is almost like blaming the QB for a Hail Mary getting picked off. You knew the percentage was not great. I would say 56 to 58 are likely on the edge of what Bailey can hit so do I blame him? Not really

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Not bad. This thread got up to 6 pages before being banished to the Rant Zone.

 

[ConstantReboot]

To an extent. If I send Bailey out for a 40 and he misses that is on the player but if I'm asking him to hit a 56 yarder it is hard to put it on him. That is almost like blaming the QB for a Hail Mary getting picked off. You knew the percentage was not great. I would say 56 to 58 are likely on the edge of what Bailey can hit so do I blame him? Not really

No the player that attempted the field goal and missed is still the fault of the player. Same thing if he makes it he deserves credit.

We all know that Romo threw wasn't really his fault. It was Dez. However, that INT still goes against Romo for throwing it and not Dez.

The coaches job is to coach and make decisions. Garrett made a decision and it turned out positive. He gets credit for making a good decision. But he should not be credited for kicking the field goal making it thru the uprights. Thus making the field goal credit goes to Bailey. Because if it weren't for Bailey kicking the field goal, Garrett would not have decided to kick it.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Nah, don't agree. And I didn't see your name beside "hater." So, unless it applies, don't insert it there.

When you quote my post and respond directly to me, .. I will always think that what you say would apply to me. I don't think I am alone in thinking that.

And I wasn't going to mention it, ... but every example you gave in that same post pointing out that they weren't the plan, ... were in fact the very plan in every example you gave.

It was Jimmy's plan to trade Herschel Walker for multiple draft picks, ... it was his plan to find a reliable athlete at TE and they found him in FA.

It was the plan to get a pass rusher, and it was the plan to get a shut-down corner.

Those were all terrific plans! Plans may not always pan out, but we could all see the plan was to build the roster to fill Jimmy's wants/needs.

So your examples were not only wrong, they were "straw man" examples that have nothing to do with the current Cowboys.

But you can continue to post that you were right about the process all along.

 

[Doomsday101]

No the player that attempted the field goal and missed is still the fault of the player. Same thing if he makes it he deserves credit.

We all know that Romo threw wasn't really his fault. It was Dez. However, that INT still goes against Romo for throwing it and not Dez.

The coaches job is to coach and make decisions. Garrett made a decision and it turned out positive. He gets credit for making a good decision. But he should not be credited for kicking the field goal making it thru the uprights. Thus making the field goal credit goes to Bailey. Because if it weren't for Bailey kicking the field goal, Garrett would not have decided to kick it.

Well that is your take. Yes on FG inside of 50, that should be expected going beyond what is reasonable is not something I would blame a player for. Myself I don't get into this blame game as so many love to do, I can live a good life without the need to pointing fingers anytime something does not go right. Would I fault a HC for having that kicker attempt it? depending on circumstances no and should the kicker miss it I'm not jumping down this throat either, I knew and most knew it was a low percentage to begin with.

 

[rcaldw]

When you quote my post and respond directly to me, .. I will always think that what you say would apply to me. I don't think I am alone in thinking that.

And I wasn't going to mention it, ... but every example you gave in that same post pointing out that they weren't the plan, ... were in fact the very plan in every example you gave.

It was Jimmy's plan to trade Herschel Walker for multiple draft picks, ... it was his plan to find a reliable athlete at TE and they found him in FA.

It was the plan to get a pass rusher, and it was the plan to get a shut-down corner.

Those were all terrific plans! Plans may not always pan out, but we could all see the plan was to build the roster to fill Jimmy's needs.

So your examples were not only wrong, they were "straw man" examples that have nothing to do with the current Cowboys.

But you can continue to post that you were right about the process all along.

Jimmy started thinking about trading Walker after he arrived in Dallas. He had no idea the Vikings would come with the offer they did. Who could plan that?

The other things you list are laughable. It was his plan to get a TE, to get a pass rusher and to get a shut down corner? Really?

So, was it Garrett's plan to:

Rebuild the roster?
Get younger?
Build a strong offensive line?
Emphasize physicality?
Be strong minded?
Play to the final whistle?

Using the vague, broad parameters you just mentioned, his plan was as terrific as Jimmy's.

And no, despite what you think I didn't think of you as a "hater." Nor anyone else in this thread, to be honest.

And yes, I do think I was right.

p.s. if those guys were Jimmy's/Jerry's plan, then at least note it took them until 1992 to get Haley (4 years) and 1995 to get Sanders (6 years)....hmmm, this is year 4.

 

[rcaldw]

Well that is your take. Yes on FG inside of 50, that should be expected going beyond what is reasonable is not something I would blame a player for. Myself I don't get into this blame game as so many love to do, I can live a good life without the need to pointing fingers anytime something does not go right. Would I fault a HC for having that kicker attempt it? depending on circumstances no and should the kicker miss it I'm not jumping down this throat either, I knew and most knew it was a low percentage to begin with.

In 44 years of watching professional football I cannot think of 1 single time that an announcer blamed a kicker for missing a FG over 55 yards. Never.

 

[rcaldw]

Not bad. This thread got up to 6 pages before being banished to the Rant Zone.

All threads eventually go to the rant zone

 

[Doomsday101]

In 44 years of watching professional football I cannot think of 1 single time that an announcer blamed a kicker for missing a FG over 55 yards. Never.

I agree, it is not a high percentage. I blame a kicker when he is missing FG that should be expected pending on snap and hold of course but when Nick Folk was shanking kicks right and left that was on him. You ask your kicker to be hitting long bombs from outside of 50 that is a different story

 

[rcaldw]

I agree, it is not a high percentage. I blame a kicker when he is missing FG that should be expected pending on snap and hold of course but when Nick Folk was shanking kicks right and left that was on him. You ask your kicker to be hitting long bombs from outside of 50 that is a different story

Agreed. One of that distance, IF there is blame, goes to the coach.

 

[Doomsday101]

Agreed. One of that distance, IF there is blame, goes to the coach.

True but even that comes down to circumstance. Put it this way you got 5 second left and your looking at a 56 or 58 yarder or going for Hail Mary? I will take my chance with Bailey.

 

[rcaldw]

True but even that comes down to circumstance. Put it this way you got 5 second left and your looking at a 56 or 58 yarder or going for Hail Mary? I will take my chance with Bailey.

you got it.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Jimmy started thinking about trading Walker after he arrived in Dallas. He had no idea the Vikings would come with the offer they did. Who could plan that?

Yes, it was his plan to trade his best player for multiple players. He didn't know he would get all of what they offered but it was always his plan to get several players or draft picks for Herschel. A brilliant plan.

The other things you list are laughable. It was his plan to get a TE, to get a pass rusher and to get a shut down corner? Really?

Yes, as part of his plan he went through FA, and he sought trades. That is definitely a plan. Who do you think initiated those transactions? The Cowboys did. Jimmy did. Why do you think he got those players, .. it was part of his plan.
How is that not part of a plan?

And no, despite what you think I didn't think of you as a "hater." Nor anyone else in this thread, to be honest.

It's not what I think, it is what you posted. Do you think we don't read what you post?
You must think anyone who questions anything JG does is a hater.

 

[rcaldw]

Yes, it was his plan to trade his best player for multiple players. He didn't know he would get all of what they offered but it was always his plan to get several players or draft picks for Herschel. A brilliant plan.



Yes, as part of his plan he went through FA, and he sought trades. That is definitely a plan. Who do you think initiated those transactions? The Cowboys did. Jimmy did. Why do you think he got those players, .. it was part of his plan.
How is that not part of a plan?



It's not what I think, it is what you posted. Do you think we don't read what you post?
You must think anyone who questions anything JG does is a hater.

lol... ok... think what you want. I guess since you think it was you, it must be. I did actually have a couple of people in mind, but as I say, they haven't posted in this thread. And as I said, if that WAS his plan, took him 4 years and 6 years to do it. In addition, with plans THAT broad, how can you say that THIS wasn't Jason's plan? Silly.

 

[dupree89]

Of course. That is part of a coach "doing a good job." Now, if we expect a coach is going to bat .1000 on these we would be crazy wrong. My only point was that we have fans who remember all of his "gaffs" (many of which, as I already said, have been exaggerated or distorted), but not the excellent decisions he has made.

I understand. And you're right. Its not fair that people bashed Garrett because of how awful the team played, but now don't extend the same credit to him when the team is playing great football. We gotta be fair about this stuff, IMO.

 

[rcaldw]

I understand. And you're right. Its not fair that people bashed Garrett because of how awful the team played, but now don't extend the same credit to him when the team is playing great football. We gotta be fair about this stuff, IMO.

I agree. Again, if I wanted to search posts I could probably prove what I'm about to say, but I was on record as saying that despite my belief in him, we had to start seeing results at some point or the message just wouldn't resonate anymore. I'm no blind supporter, I just have really liked what I thought I saw.