What a difference a HC makes, Chip Kelly

[Dodger12]

Except it really doesn't. You can only score once per possession, and the other team will always get the ball back when you finish your turn. So regardless of how fast you run plays or how many possessions you get, it all comes down to how efficiently you put points on the board (ie. points per possession). A ball control offense that scores points efficiently can keep up just fine. You can beat a team like Philly or Denver or NO lots of different ways: you can score lots of points and win a shootout, you can control the clock and keep the ball out of their team's hands, or you can play great defense and somehow contain their stars.

I'm sure you can beat these teams a lot of different ways but it's funny that hasn't happened yet, at least with the frequency that you seem to imply can happen. And those ball control offenses better have decent defenses or their out of luck. I don't think your arguments are lost on these coaches with attacking type offenses. I just don't think they care. They want an uptempo game to wear the other team out. It's their philosophy and whether or not in can work in the NFL for the long haul has yet to be seen but in the short term, Manning has thrown 50 TD's and Foles has thrown 27 with 2 interceptions. But I will say this, give me a good D and you have a decent chance and that's something we've seen time and time again. On the flip side, the NFL has handicapped defenses and the way they play the game so the old adage that a good D can beat a good O doesn't hold the same relevance that it did in the past.

Those systems work because they have Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, who are almost always more efficient than any other QBs in the league. Those QBs would still be successful with virtually any other mainstream offensive scheme, and the Denver/NO schemes would not be as successful with less-than-elite passers under center.

I agree with your point but then you'd also have to call Foles elite and I'm not ready to do that. I think Foles benefited from the system and it was a good match. Foles was 1 and 5 with 6 TD's and 5 INT's with Reid and I didn't think he looked all that special. I understand he was a rookie that year but the NFL has evolved to a league where rookies can come in and make an impact. Was one off-season so instrumental that he could go 8 and 2 the following season with a 119 QB rating? Of course you'll say it was because you have to. On the other hand, I value good coaching and believe that the stats have to speak for themselves at some point.

Yes -- he's done about as good (maybe a little worse) than what Andy Reid consistently did for the previous decade and a half, minus one unusual year.

You just can't wrap your arm around the fact that the Eagles were a team in decline. Worst yet, they were in disarray and there was a ton of head scratching with some of Reid's decisions, especially on the D side of the ball. If Jerry or his Trainee made Bill Callahan the DC, we'd all be rioting. But that's exactly what Reid did when took his offensive line coach and made him DC.

I didn't say it was luck. I said he took over a good team and did about as well as the last guy did. That's not the worst thing in the world, it just doesn't mean he made a huge difference and turned the team around.

Except he didn't. Chip Kelly took a 4 and 12 team on the decline and took them to 10 and 6. Results do matter. You're just speculating.

 

[Dodger12]

It doesn't especially matter what Eagles fans thought. The question is whether they were right. Fans always want everybody canned and everything changed after a losing season, but that's not always necessary, or the right move.

Lol.......the Eagles won the East and will play another game after being 4 and 12 the previous season. If you polled the Eagles fans or most any NFL fans or talking heads and asked them if canning Reid was the right move, I'm not sure you'll get a whole lot of people taking your position. I live in Eagles country and I wouldn't even ask them if canning Reid was the right move because I don't want to get laughed out of the room.

 

[Dodger12]

To the blind eye he was a fantastic coach, but to those that want to look deeper his demise from first to worst was a perfect storm of debacles from poor drafts, free-agent acquisitions, and assistant coach selections. Towards the end I honestly thought he was having mental health issues with some of his bizarre moves.

Absolutely and I say this liking and respecting Reid as a coach. But what happened at the end of his tenure in Philly wasn't merely a coincidence and the last straw of moving Juan Castillo from offensive line coach to DC sealed his fate. It was absolutely bizarre........

 

[jterrell]

various:
Andy Reid is a VERY good head coach. That's why he spent only a few weeks out of work.
He has a .590 career winning percentage and has 10 playoff wins to his credit as HC after winning many more as an asst.

Anyone taking Kelly over Reid is doing so for "hope" not facts.

Garrett: JG was substantially better in game mgmt this year. It wasn't even close. Not sure he's a top 10 coach or a great game manager but he is "good" at running a club. He does keep them focused on whats important and on improving areas.
He keeps them even keeled and working hard.
I simply hate his offense. I'd much, much, much rather have Chip Kelly calling my offense.
But I'm not sure which I'd rather have as an NFL head coach.

 

[jterrell]

Absolutely and I say this liking and respecting Reid as a coach. But what happened at the end of his tenure in Philly wasn't merely a coincidence and the last straw of moving Juan Castillo from offensive line coach to DC sealed his fate. It was absolutely bizarre........

guy lost his son to drugs and had crazy personal issues. also was likely burned out.
eagles mgmt was cheap with players and scared or ran many off.

he had most success in history of that eagles team by far.

 

[Dodger12]

guy lost his son to drugs and had crazy personal issues. also was likely burned out.
eagles mgmt was cheap with players and scared or ran many off.

he had most success in history of that eagles team by far.

No question about it. I think Reid is a quality HC but his time in Philly had run it's course for various reasons, not the least of which you mentioned. Sometimes a change of scenery is needed and I think it was a good thing for Reid as well.

 

[Coy]

That's fair and my answer would be less than a lot and more than this year. As long as I see substantial improvement then I'd take it one year at a time. I like the continuity, the fact the players like him, I like his approach to the game, I most like the offense, I see the talent improving, I like the coaches, love the improvement of the OL and the drafts have improved. I don't like the predictability of the offense, the lack of a true GM or even a consultant, the cap hell I think we're in, the keeping of aging veterans past a certain point acknowledging that is difficult to do, Jerry's big mouth, the lack of aggressiveness of the offense and the defense, and more.

There is no way a fair minded person or a GM could evaluate this team this year. There was just too many injuries this year to get an idea of what problems remain although most can identify some of the talent problems. I'm very concerned about the cap situation and the problem with Ware, Austin, and Spencer.

I am not enamored with Garrett and I don't care who is the HC. I just want to win. I just think I have a different approach to the problem than some. But I like your question.

Thanks for your honest answer, I just don't see it in Garrett but I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost so I'll be pulling for him next year I just hope the outcome is different than the past 3 years, unfortunately if it isn't I just don't see Jerry firing him so we may be seeing Garrett for many years to come even if we're not winning and that is my biggest problem right there.

 

[Coy]

Maybe not. Maybe Romo is done this year or next and the team spends 5 more years lookin for a QB. He's so far along and the defense has so many question marks that anyone coming in now would have to blow it up and start from scratch. With the team like it is now I think you ride it out and next year be prepared to start over if they cant win these 1-2-3 point games that they've lost the last few years.

So you'd be willing to fire Garrett if next year we have a fourth staright season of 8-8 or you would wait and see why we finished 8-8?
Your comment about romo is why I'm so frustrated with Garrett, i believe we wasted his prime (Witten and Ware's as well) because of Garrett's learning curve, Jerry said so himself (about the learning curve) and IMO that's just not fair, I really believe that we will see these 3 players start to decline a bit next year.

 

[jterrell]

Thanks for your honest answer, I just don't see it in Garrett but I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost so I'll be pulling for him next year I just hope the outcome is different than the past 3 years, unfortunately if it isn't I just don't see Jerry firing him so we may be seeing Garrett for many years to come even if we're not winning and that is my biggest problem right there.

wouldnt need to fire him, contract would be up.
pretty clear he'll get one more year with job on line and that's not all bad.

 

[Coy]

wouldnt need to fire him, contract would be up.
pretty clear he'll get one more year with job on line and that's not all bad.

Would you be surprised if we end up 8-8 once again and Jerry gives him a new contract? I sure wouldn't, It's obvious Jerry loves Garrett, if he didn't he would no longer be the HC.

 

[jterrell]

Would you be surprised if we end up 8-8 once again and Jerry gives him a new contract? I sure wouldn't, It's obvious Jerry loves Garrett, if he didn't he would no longer be the HC.

yes i would be surprised.

jerry felt he gave up too soon on chan gailey and he doesnt want this to be a revolving door but i do think he'll hire a new coach this time next year if the team is 8-8 again.

 

[Coy]

yes i would be surprised.

jerry felt he gave up too soon on chan gailey and he doesnt want this to be a revolving door but i do think he'll hire a new coach this time next year if the team is 8-8 again.

Gailey had two playoff seasons in two years, that was indeed a big mistake, I believe this is different, Jerry loves Garrett and really thinks he will someday be a good HC so he is willing to go through the growing pains of him becoming one. I hope you are right but I think he stays a couple of more years even if we only win 7 or 8 games a year, he's accepted Garrett's mediocrity, for how many years more? I don't know but I'd bet that for at least 2 or 3 more years.

 

[jobberone]

Thanks for your honest answer, I just don't see it in Garrett but I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost so I'll be pulling for him next year I just hope the outcome is different than the past 3 years, unfortunately if it isn't I just don't see Jerry firing him so we may be seeing Garrett for many years to come even if we're not winning and that is my biggest problem right there.

I said awhile back I'd have little patience after this coming year. I only hope we have some better health this year for all our sakes.

 

[mcmvp]

I said awhile back I'd have little patience after this coming year. I only hope we have some better health this year for all our sakes.

Imo it's another reason to really at look at different leadership. The Eagles are on the verge of being one of the healthiest teams in NFL history. It's not luck...

 

[jobberone]

Gailey had two playoff seasons in two years, that was indeed a big mistake, I believe this is different, Jerry loves Garrett and really thinks he will someday be a good HC so he is willing to go through the growing pains of him becoming one. I hope you are right but I think he stays a couple of more years even if we only win 7 or 8 games a year, he's accepted Garrett's mediocrity, for how many years more? I don't know but I'd bet that for at least 2 or 3 more years.

I don't think he has accepted mediocrity. I saw him react to that interception. I see many here say he just wants the money. I don't believe that for a second.

 

[mcmvp]

I don't think he has accepted mediocrity. I saw him react to that interception. I see many here say he just wants the money. I don't believe that for a second.

If you guys haven't figured it out yet, I am an Eagles fan. But I'm not here to talk trash or rub salt in wounds...really I'm not.

I agree with you that JJ wants to win and cares about it very much. I've never once doubted that about him. He possesses a lot of qualities that fans should love in an owner. Unfortunately he also possesses one that hurts the fanbase...he is incapable of getting out of his own way.

 

[jobberone]

If you guys haven't figured it out yet, I am an Eagles fan. But I'm not here to talk trash or rub salt in wounds...really I'm not.

I agree with you that JJ wants to win and cares about it very much. I've never once doubted that about him. He possesses a lot of qualities that fans should love in an owner. Unfortunately he also possesses one that hurts the fanbase...he is incapable of getting out of his own way.

I don't have a good response to this.

 

[Blue&Silver]

Not true, I'm happy to hear about those things. I'll just expect evidence if you attribute any sort of causal narrative to them. Crazy, I know.

Fair enough. I assumed since you were arguing his greatness that you knew all the facts that led up to his firing.

That is absolutely demonstrably false.

http://sagarin.com/sports/nflsend.htm

The Steelers had the weakest schedule, and the Chiefs' schedule was harder than the Eagles (even without considering that Philly got Dallas without Romo, Green Bay without Rodgers, Minnesota without AP, etc.). Kansas City went 11-5 in a division with 3 playoff teams, while Philly went 10-6 in a division where nobody else had a winning record.

Chiefs 0.445 Philly 0.453. Steelers 0.469 SOS. per CBS.com

Injuries aren't quantifiable, but sure, I took into consideration all the teams you've listed had backups at their respected position. I also took into consideration all those teams, and more, played the Eagles backup quarterback, and 4th string wide receiver. That's kind of a null and void argument point. Again this has nothing to do with your argument for Andy Reid greatness, but just how many wins did Andy Reid get from those playoff teams in his division?. Did Kansas City beat any team over 500 besides the Mike Vick led 1-4 Eagles ??

You're going way out in left field in this argument. It's not about Andy Reid in Kansas City, it's about Andy Reid in Philadelphia. There is no dispute Chip Kelly took Andy Reid's team and made them better from top to bottom. Andy Reid was once good, but when he left that team he left a mess from top to bottom.

Great, so can we also check back in five years before declaring that Chip Kelly single-handedly turned around the Eagles?

You don't have to wait five years. Chip Kelly turned around the Eagles in 1. Beyond this year what Chip Kelly does is unknown. Andy Reid is a known quantity. Give him total control of the team and watch him screw it up. That sounds funny considering Kansas City's recent past, but Andy Reid set the bar so we'll wait and see if history repeats itself.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You need 3 years to evaluate, remember? Load of bull hockey.

We see first to worst all the time. Ask Shanny how that worked out for him. Or Tony Sparano.

And they were 2 points away from finishing with the same record we did and not playing in the playoffs.

They also had a new qb improved play there helps a team don't you think? And don't tell me Chip is a QB guru. He hasn't really shown any special ability to develop guys.

But hey keep thinking that a coach is always the solution.

Afterall it's that mentality that owners of losing teams sell to fanbases in the winter when they fire coaches. IT'LL BE BETTER BECAUSE WE GOT A NEW GUY!

Also you point out Chip but what about the other new coaches all around the league? Why didn't they magically turn around their franchises?

Well?

You don't have the answers Bob. You ain't got the answer.

 

[Blue&Silver]

If you guys haven't figured it out yet, I am an Eagles fan. But I'm not here to talk trash or rub salt in wounds...really I'm not.
.

I never would have guessed with your screen name.