What a waste of talent in the 3/4

[cowboys101]

***'m not stressing the defense, it played okay.***


are you kidding me? Jordon had 100 + yds and he sucks!

If we couldnt stop him we are going to have all kinds of problems.

 

[Doomsday101]

***'m not stressing the defense, it played okay.***


are you kidding me? Jordon had 100 + yds and he sucks!

If we couldnt stop him we are going to have all kinds of problems.

Cowboys also shut down Tomlinson and Portis, you don't ditch an entire defense based on 1 game. No doubt Dallas was overly focused on stopping the raiders passing attack and allowed the raiders to gain way too much on the ground but again you don't throw away months of work due to 1 game

 

[Hiero]

you think if the raiders didnt have moss, lamont would get the same kind of stats? dont think so

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Cowboys also shut down Tomlinson and Portis, you don't ditch an entire defense based on 1 game. No doubt Dallas was overly focused on stopping the raiders passing attack and allowed the raiders to gain way too much on the ground but again you don't throw away months of work due to 1 game

I have believed for some time that our run defense has been lacking, as you know Dooms. Our DL played three yards off the ball last week. We got handled physically, just as the 90s Cowboys OLs handled people. That is how Norv plays offense. The 34 showed it's weakness last week. We're young and have little experience in many areas. We are going to get handled by some teams this year but, the 34, it self, is a difficult defense to dominate with in the running game. I don't know that we'll ever be a team that can dominate good running games. We will see as it evolves.

 

[Doomsday101]

I have believed for some time that our run defense has been lacking, as you know Dooms. Our DL played three yards off the ball last week. We got handled physically, just as the 90s Cowboys OLs handled people. That is how Norv plays offense. The 34 showed it's weakness last week. We're young and have little experience in many areas. We are going to get handled by some teams this year but, the 34, it self, is a difficult defense to dominate with in the running game. I don't know that we'll ever be a team that can dominate good running games. We will see as it evolves.

I admit I have always liked the 4-3 defense both as someone who has played in it as well as a fan but as I mentioned I don't think you ditch the 3-4 because we had a bad day against the run. Right now we have some guys making mistakes and have instances where the tackling has been poor but at this stage I think the team needs to keep working and trying to improve

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I admit I have always liked the 4-3 defense both as someone who has played in it as well as a fan but as I mentioned I don't think you ditch the 3-4 because we had a bad day against the run. Right now we have some guys making mistakes and have instances where the tackling has been poor but at this stage I think the team needs to keep working and trying to improve

I don't think we ditch it either. This is Bills thing regardless. The point I'm trying to make is that while there will be plenty of wood sheed opportunities for our defense in the coming weeks, we may not ever be a real good team against the run. Teams with good power running games have success against 34s traditionally. JMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think we ditch it either. This is Bills thing regardless. The point I'm trying to make is that while there will be plenty of wood sheed opportunities for our defense in the coming weeks, we may not ever be a real good team against the run. Teams with good power running games have success against 34s traditionally. JMO.

I agree and that was one reason I was skeptical about changing to the 3-4. Having said that I have seen teams run the 3-4 and still play the run strong. I think it is a bit early to think Dallas will continue to struggle against the power running team we will just have to see what happens

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree and that was one reason I was skeptical about changing to the 3-4. Having said that I have seen teams run the 3-4 and still play the run strong. I think it is a bit early to think Dallas will continue to struggle against the power running team we will just have to see what happens

I've seen a few, but not very many. I think 34 teams have success stopping the run against decent running games but not often against really good running teams. I mean, it happens but more often, it doesn't.

Over all, I agree with you. It's too early to say this is what we are but in the end, it doesn't really matter. We're going to play a 34, regardless.

 

[VACowboy]

I don't think we ditch it either. This is Bills thing regardless. The point I'm trying to make is that while there will be plenty of wood sheed opportunities for our defense in the coming weeks, we may not ever be a real good team against the run. Teams with good power running games have success against 34s traditionally. JMO.

Who was #1 against the run last year?

Pittsburgh.

Which NFL team plays more pure 3-4 defense than any other?

Pittsburgh.

The ability to defend the run is not scheme specific.

 

[Hiero]

I admit I have always liked the 4-3 defense both as someone who has played in it as well as a fan but as I mentioned I don't think you ditch the 3-4 because we had a bad day against the run.

I dont think we should have ditched it, just adjust. we should have used a lot moer 4-3 looks against the team, but that doesnt mean we give up on the 3-4 that game or the year. just that we need to be able to adjust to our opponents strengths.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Who was #1 against the run last year?

Pittsburgh.

Which NFL team plays more pure 3-4 defense than any other?

Pittsburgh.

The ability to defend the run is not scheme specific.

I disagree. You can say the scheme doesn't matter but history doesn't support your position. Nobody ever said it could not be done. In fact, this discussion is about exactly that. Teams can do it, on occasion but, not usually. You'll find more that don't then more that do.

 

[VACowboy]

Which history doesn't support my position?

 

[Zman5]

It's not the scheme but having the right personell to run the appropreate scheme.

It looks like we are better at stopping speed backs with 3-4 and better at stopping power backs with 4-3.

It's up to the coaches to know this and adjust accordingly.

 

[VACowboy]

Is Tomlinson a power back or a speed back?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Which history doesn't support my position?

History of the NFL. Traditionally, 34 teams have had issues stopping the run. You don't have to believe me, just do some homework on the subject. Is there another history your aware of?

 

[Doomsday101]

Is Tomlinson a power back or a speed back?

I would say he is more of a speed back than some big bruising RB, he uses his quickness and agility but will lower his shoulder at the end of the run

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Is Tomlinson a power back or a speed back?

He can be either? What's your point? If it's that we stopped him, again, I would ask that you do your homework. Particularly in the second half. He hardly touched the ball.

LT gained 72 yards against us, much of it in the first half. Study the drives that SD went heavy on the run against us and you'll see that both produced TDs. I'm not saying we don't have talent. I'm saying that good running teams typically enjoy success against 34s. Another poster indicated that talent dictates success. Well, this may be true but not many teams have talent everywhere anymore. You have to make due with what you have.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's not the scheme but having the right personell to run the appropreate scheme.

It looks like we are better at stopping speed backs with 3-4 and better at stopping power backs with 4-3.

It's up to the coaches to know this and adjust accordingly.

This is an interesting observation. I agree with you BTW.

 

[VACowboy]

History of the NFL. Traditionally, 34 teams have had issues stopping the run. You don't have to believe me, just do some homework on the subject. Is there another history your aware of?

I'm not aware of that tradition. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you've done the "homework" you speak of I'd sure like to see the statistics. Really, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, and I've not looked at any numbers, but I've seen lots of teams playing a 3-4 defensive scheme shut down runningbacks as well as teams running a 4-3. I just think it has more to do with personnel and execution than the scheme itself.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not aware of that tradition. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you've done the "homework" you speak of I'd sure like to see the statistics. Really, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, and I've not looked at any numbers, but I've seen lots of teams playing a 3-4 defensive scheme shut down runningbacks as well as teams running a 4-3. I just think it has more to do with personnel and execution than the scheme itself.

I have researched this in the past. The first 34 I ever remember really watching was Atlantas of the 70s. Actually was a pretty good defense. I know longer have much of that info as I did this some two years ago but I would incourage you to read up on it. I do not have the heart, to say nothing of time, to reproduce all of the info.

I appriciate you pointing out that you are not trying to start an argument. Honestly, the facts are there and the long time knock on the 34 has always been it's ability to stop the run. I really do recommend you read up on it. It's interesting. Unfortunatly, I do not have the time right now to do that.