What annoys me most . . .

[31hammer]

The fact that all the so called experts keep comparing Bledsoe with Testaverde is completley insane. Testavede came to Dallas to collect a paycheck, his carear was basically over but he would be able to fill in for a game or 2 possibly be a role model for Henson. He was the starter and did an admirable job. He had nothning left, as Cowboy fans we all knew what we were getting.

To even suggest that the only difference between Bledsoe and Vinny is age. That somehow they are the same because they are slow or immobile, is ridiculous Bledsoe is relatively young and still has alot left in the tank. He is no Vick but Vick is no Bledsoe. Drew can make better reads and is a better leader. Vick is young, dumb, and full of it. Bledsoe hasn't had much success of late but the Bills haven't had as much luck either. Thier top reciever hasn't been healthy the last 2 seasons and they have no TE. If I am not mistaken Bledsoe helped Price get a big chunk of change 2 years ago, That's the year Bledsoe Price and Moulds lit it up.

We live in a fantasy football age and this is what all the so called "experts" and Fans base thier opinions on. Don't get me wrong and don't think Parcels cares if Bledsoe is the 1st QB drafted or the 32nd. He wants him to lead and use his experience to win games. Has Bledsoe made bad decisions, yes but that's because he hasn't had anything to work with. He's had to win games by himself. I know after McGahee came back he still made bad decisions. That was because he didn't have Parcels in his ***.

Parcels is old school and the Cowboys will win old school. Solid QB play, ball control offense and smash mouth defense. Honestly who here gave the Giants a chance to win against the Bills flashy "no Huddle" stud of a QB offense in the Super Bowl. That's how he does it. It's how the Patriots do it. This year it's how the Cowboys will do it. Everyone will be left shaking thier heads, but it will make for a great story. And as usual Cowboy fans we will all be able to gloat again.

I watched Bledsoe play one of the Guttsiest games I ever seen someone play( except when Emmitt played the Giants with the seperated shoulder) when he came off the bench and beat the Steelers in the championship game. That was heart, leadership and experience. I think he is closer to that player then some washed up Testervarde. Bledsoe may not finish in the top five of fantasy QB's but I know for sure he will lead this Cowboys team to the playoffs. And then he will shine.

 

[playit12]

Testavede came to Dallas to collect a paycheck, his carear was basically over but he would be able to fill in for a game or 2 possibly be a role model for Henson.

Man I hate these lines. All I needed to know about Vinny's Character came on the Thanksgiving day game. He had just played 4 days earlier against the toughest defense in football and got banged up. Since he was hurt we gave Henson a shot, which he was blowing. Coach asked Vinny to come in, off limited rest and hurt, to win the game. And the fans booed him. They booed him onto the field. As much as we slam on Philly fans, we booed a guy that just wanted to win.

He still came out and helped us win the game.

As for the comparison. They both have limited mobility, they both have live arms, and they are both long time vets that have had limited success. According to my 2004 review, Vinny was more accurate and threw down field more often, while Drew made less mistakes. I think people are going to be dissapointed if they are expecting a huge step up from Vinny last year.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Man I hate these lines. All I needed to know about Vinny's Character came on the Thanksgiving day game. He had just played 4 days earlier against the toughest defense in football and got banged up. Since he was hurt we gave Henson a shot, which he was blowing. Coach asked Vinny to come in, off limited rest and hurt, to win the game. And the fans booed him. They booed him onto the field. As much as we slam on Philly fans, we booed a guy that just wanted to win.

He still came out and helped us win the game.

As for the comparison. They both have limited mobility, they both have live arms, and they are both long time vets that have had limited success. According to my 2004 review, Vinny was more accurate and threw down field more often, while Drew made less mistakes. I think people are going to be dissapointed if they are expecting a huge step up from Vinny last year.

Don't expect a parade in your honor for having the voice of reason.

 

[jimmy40]

The fact that all the so called experts keep comparing Bledsoe with Testaverde is completley insane. Testavede came to Dallas to collect a paycheck, his carear was basically over but he would be able to fill in for a game or 2 possibly be a role model for Henson. He was the starter and did an admirable job. He had nothning left, as Cowboy fans we all knew what we were getting.

To even suggest that the only difference between Bledsoe and Vinny is age. That somehow they are the same because they are slow or immobile, is ridiculous Bledsoe is relatively young and still has alot left in the tank. He is no Vick but Vick is no Bledsoe. Drew can make better reads and is a better leader. Vick is young, dumb, and full of it. Bledsoe hasn't had much success of late but the Bills haven't had as much luck either. Thier top reciever hasn't been healthy the last 2 seasons and they have no TE. If I am not mistaken Bledsoe helped Price get a big chunk of change 2 years ago, That's the year Bledsoe Price and Moulds lit it up.

We live in a fantasy football age and this is what all the so called "experts" and Fans base thier opinions on. Don't get me wrong and don't think Parcels cares if Bledsoe is the 1st QB drafted or the 32nd. He wants him to lead and use his experience to win games. Has Bledsoe made bad decisions, yes but that's because he hasn't had anything to work with. He's had to win games by himself. I know after McGahee came back he still made bad decisions. That was because he didn't have Parcels in his ***.

Parcels is old school and the Cowboys will win old school. Solid QB play, ball control offense and smash mouth defense. Honestly who here gave the Giants a chance to win against the Bills flashy "no Huddle" stud of a QB offense in the Super Bowl. That's how he does it. It's how the Patriots do it. This year it's how the Cowboys will do it. Everyone will be left shaking thier heads, but it will make for a great story. And as usual Cowboy fans we will all be able to gloat again.

I watched Bledsoe play one of the Guttsiest games I ever seen someone play( except when Emmitt played the Giants with the seperated shoulder) when he came off the bench and beat the Steelers in the championship game. That was heart, leadership and experience. I think he is closer to that player then some washed up Testervarde. Bledsoe may not finish in the top five of fantasy QB's but I know for sure he will lead this Cowboys team to the playoffs. And then he will shine.

What annoys me most is how players instantly become twice as good as they ever were the day they sign with the Cowboys. Bledsoe has won one more game than he's lost in his career. He is what he is.

 

[Thick 'N Hearty]

According to my 2004 review, Vinny was more accurate and threw down field more often, while Drew made less mistakes. I think people are going to be dissapointed if they are expecting a huge step up from Vinny last year.

Vinny was more accurate with the opposing DBs than he was with his WRs. Bledsoe might not have had the yards Vinny had, but he didn't have the receivers either. There are two numbers when it comes to QBs that I look at: TDs and INTs. Given last year's numbers, since that is where everyone is going, Vinny through 17 touchdowns to 21 INTs. Bledsoe threw 20 TDs and 16 picks. There may not be a huge step up in yardage, but I think there will be a marked improvement in TD:INT ratio.

 

[JackMagist]

Man I hate these lines. All I needed to know about Vinny's Character came on the Thanksgiving day game. He had just played 4 days earlier against the toughest defense in football and got banged up. Since he was hurt we gave Henson a shot, which he was blowing. Coach asked Vinny to come in, off limited rest and hurt, to win the game. And the fans booed him. They booed him onto the field. As much as we slam on Philly fans, we booed a guy that just wanted to win.

He still came out and helped us win the game.

As for the comparison. They both have limited mobility, they both have live arms, and they are both long time vets that have had limited success. According to my 2004 review, Vinny was more accurate and threw down field more often, while Drew made less mistakes. I think people are going to be dissapointed if they are expecting a huge step up from Vinny last year.

A couple of things:

First I don't think anyone questions Vinny's heart; the guy wants to win and he will put it all out there. I'll give him that for sure. Yes he was booed and that was a black mark against the fans but in their defense I don't believe that they were booing vinny per se. They were booing the fact that a QB that we all know was not going to be our future and was not going to make the team a winner (overall) was coming back into the game and what they saw as our future was being pulled.

I'm not saying that Parcells was wrong to pull Henson if (as it now seems with 20/20 hindsight) he was not ready. But the fans had seen enough to know that Vinny was just a placeholder for the QB position. He was driving the bus and it was swerving all over the road.

As for the rest of the stuff you wrote. Vinny has a live arm? Pleeeease

Vinny's arm was so dead that he couldn't make it through the second half of a game without throwing a critical INT. Sure for the first 4 or 5 games he was ok but after that his arm was DEAD. That is the Biggest difference in the two.

To paraphrase (since I may not get the quote exactly right) Qunicy Morgan "Bledsoe throws the ball with a lot of velocity; with Vinny it seemed to take all day to get there."

And Bledsoe is a better leader on the field. Vinny was aloof and really garnered no "following" among the players. Bledsoe has a little more fire and will get some guys behind him with his leadership. Vinny was a role model; Bledsoe is a leader.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Vinny was more accurate with the opposing DBs than he was with his WRs. Bledsoe might not have had the yards Vinny had, but he didn't have the receivers either. There are two numbers when it comes to QBs that I look at: TDs and INTs. Given last year's numbers, since that is where everyone is going, Vinny through 17 touchdowns to 21 INTs. Bledsoe threw 20 TDs and 16 picks. There may not be a huge step up in yardage, but I think there will be a marked improvement in TD:INT ratio.

Just for grins check out the stats for Eric Moulds and Lee Evans last year and then get back to me about Bledsoe not having "the receivers".

 

[AtlCB]

What annoys me most is how players instantly become twice as good as they ever were the day they sign with the Cowboys. Bledsoe has won one more game than he's lost in his career. He is what he is.

You cannot always use the win-loss record as an indicator of how good a QB is. Archie Manning had a terrible win-loss record, but he was a very good QB. Bledsoe played on some awful Bills and Patriots teams during his career. Marino had games where he put up 40+ points and still lost. Quarterbacks do not block, tackle, run routes, or run the football (unless they are Vick).

 

[jimmy40]

You cannot always use the win-loss record as an indicator of how good a QB is. Archie Manning had a terrible win-loss record, but he was a very good QB. Bledsoe played on some awful Bills and Patriots teams during his career. Marino had games where he put up 40+ points and still lost. Quarterbacks do not block, tackle, run routes, or run the football (unless they are Vick).

Don't compare Drew Bledsoe's situation with Archie Manning. When it comes to playing on bad teams Bledsoe has no clue what a bad team is compared to Archie. Don't compare him to Dan Marino either for that matter.

 

[playit12]

A couple of things:

First I don't think anyone questions Vinny's heart; the guy wants to win and he will put it all out there. I'll give him that for sure. Yes he was booed and that was a black mark against the fans but in their defense I don't believe that they were booing vinny per se. They were booing the fact that a QB that we all know was not going to be our future and was not going to make the team a winner (overall) was coming back into the game and what they saw as our future was being pulled.

I'm not saying that Parcells was wrong to pull Henson if (as it now seems with 20/20 hindsight) he was not ready. But the fans had seen enough to know that Vinny was just a placeholder for the QB position. He was driving the bus and it was swerving all over the road.

As for the rest of the stuff you wrote. Vinny has a live arm? Pleeeease

Vinny's arm was so dead that he couldn't make it through the second half of a game without throwing a critical INT. Sure for the first 4 or 5 games he was ok but after that his arm was DEAD. That is the Biggest difference in the two.

To paraphrase (since I may not get the quote exactly right) Qunicy Morgan "Bledsoe throws the ball with a lot of velocity; with Vinny it seemed to take all day to get there."

And Bledsoe is a better leader on the field. Vinny was aloof and really garnered no "following" among the players. Bledsoe has a little more fire and will get some guys behind him with his leadership. Vinny was a role model; Bledsoe is a leader.

You don't want your QB throwing bullets every play. I said Vinny was more accurate because his completion percentage was better. This taken with the fact that he threw significantly more passes in medium to deep routes than Drew did shows a marked difference in accuracy last year. As to quality of recievers, I'm not convinced of the drastic difference. Moulds is pretty good, and they had a rookie last year that shined as well.

I should have recorded every pass play last year but really didn't have the time. However I know for a fact that at least 3 of the pics Vinny threw were because the reciever either didn't run out the play (Morgan) or didn't run the right route. He also tried to force too many passes when we didn't have anywhere else to go on offense. That's too be expected when you don't have a running game to speak of half of the year and you have rookies filling in for for your injured starters at WR. But still... Bledsoe wouldn't have done any better in his place.

The point I'm trying to make is this... If Larry Allen gets hurt, Flozell plays like he did last year, Marco wears down by the end of the year, and our passing game doesn't pose a real threat, JJ isn't going to rush for 1200+ yards. That doesn't mean JJ sucks or should be replaced the next year. It just means that there is no skill position that exist in a vacuum. QB is no different. When our line was playing decent, our starters at WR and TE were healthy, and we had some threat to run the ball (Richie), Vinny did well. Take all of that away and he looked bad. The same will be true of Bledsoe this year if the season plays out like that.

By the way anyone thinking that we weren't in dire straights last year at WR should read into Joyner's Stats. As the season progressed and we went through our options, Key actually became our verticle threat. He was running the largest percentage of deep medium and deep routes on the team late in the season. If Keyshawn is your deep threat, you are in trouble.

 

[AtlCB]

As for the comparison. They both have limited mobility, they both have live arms, and they are both long time vets that have had limited success. According to my 2004 review, Vinny was more accurate and threw down field more often, while Drew made less mistakes. I think people are going to be dissapointed if they are expecting a huge step up from Vinny last year.

You actually have this backwards. Bledsoe threw downfield more often and was more accurate. The knock on Drew was that he holds onto the ball too long. He takes too many sacks which also leads to too many fumbles. Both quarterbacks were in similar situations last season. Both had to deal with one decent WR and one inexperience WR (after Glenn's injury). Both QB's didn't have a running game until later in the season. Both QB's had horrible pass protection. Vinny did have a good TE to throw to. Bledsoe did not. On the other hand, Bledsoe did not have to put up as many points as Testaverde did to win games (Buffalo's defense was better). I still believe that Bledsoe is an upgrade, because I got the impression that Vinny tired near the end of the season.

Bledsoe is what he is. He is a pocket passer that needs a decent line, decent receivers, and a decent running game to be successful. If he has these things he will be a huge upgrade over Testaverde. If he doesn't, then this will be a long year.

 

[playit12]

You actually have this backwards. Bledsoe threw downfield more often and was more accurate. The knock on Drew was that he holds onto the ball too long. He takes too many sacks which also leads to too many fumbles. Both quarterbacks were in similar situations last season. Both had to deal with one decent WR and one inexperience WR (after Glenn's injury). Both QB's didn't have a running game until later in the season. Both QB's had horrible pass protection. Vinny did have a good TE to throw to. Bledsoe did not. On the other hand, Bledsoe did not have to put up as many points as Testaverde did to win games (Buffalo's defense was better). I still believe that Bledsoe is an upgrade, because I got the impression that Vinny tired near the end of the season.

Bledsoe is what he is. He is a pocket passer that needs a decent line, decent receivers, and a decent running game to be successful. If he has these things he will be a huge upgrade over Testaverde. If he doesn't, then this will be a long year.

I thought that too before I looked at the stats. Bledsoe threw more short passes by percentage than any other QB. Something like 70+% of his passes were short. I'll have to bring up Joyner's book to work tomorrow and I can provide more details to the stats. But long story short is that Vinny passed downfield more often then Bledsoe and was much more accurate. By the way that's even more dissapointing about Drew's completion percentage considering the average length of his passes. Some will argue that the cause of the short passes was due to poor pass protection, some will say that Drew just hears footsteps, and some will argue that Drew just isn't a down field passer, but whatever the reason he was dinking all season.

 

[playit12]

I don't have the book as I said earlier, but I did find this bit of the quote...

"Vinny threw many more deep passes than Drew (93 to 54). "

 

[AtlCB]

Don't compare Drew Bledsoe's situation with Archie Manning. When it comes to playing on bad teams Bledsoe has no clue what a bad team is compared to Archie. Don't compare him to Dan Marino either for that matter.

This is a weak argument. I made no mention that I thought that Bledsoe was as good as Manning or Marino. I used them as an example of your idiotic attempt to equate how good a QB is by his win-loss record. Would you like to argue my points with facts?

 

[2233boys]

Man I hate these lines. All I needed to know about Vinny's Character came on the Thanksgiving day game. He had just played 4 days earlier against the toughest defense in football and got banged up. Since he was hurt we gave Henson a shot, which he was blowing. Coach asked Vinny to come in, off limited rest and hurt, to win the game. And the fans booed him. They booed him onto the field. As much as we slam on Philly fans, we booed a guy that just wanted to win.

He still came out and helped us win the game.

As for the comparison. They both have limited mobility, they both have live arms, and they are both long time vets that have had limited success. According to my 2004 review, Vinny was more accurate and threw down field more often, while Drew made less mistakes. I think people are going to be dissapointed if they are expecting a huge step up from Vinny last year.

Vinny stunk all year... Oh yeah and on Thanksgiving I think JJ had a lot more to do with that win then Inceptaverda... Hopefully Drew doesn't blow as much. Although, I don't have real high hopes that will be the case.

 

[JackMagist]

You don't want your QB throwing bullets every play. I said Vinny was more accurate because his completion percentage was better. This taken with the fact that he threw significantly more passes in medium to deep routes than Drew did shows a marked difference in accuracy last year. As to quality of recievers, I'm not convinced of the drastic difference. Moulds is pretty good, and they had a rookie last year that shined as well.

I should have recorded every pass play last year but really didn't have the time. However I know for a fact that at least 3 of the pics Vinny threw were because the reciever either didn't run out the play (Morgan) or didn't run the right route. He also tried to force too many passes when we didn't have anywhere else to go on offense. That's too be expected when you don't have a running game to speak of half of the year and you have rookies filling in for for your injured starters at WR. But still... Bledsoe wouldn't have done any better in his place.

The point I'm trying to make is this... If Larry Allen gets hurt, Flozell plays like he did last year, Marco wears down by the end of the year, and our passing game doesn't pose a real threat, JJ isn't going to rush for 1200+ yards. That doesn't mean JJ sucks or should be replaced the next year. It just means that there is no skill position that exist in a vacuum. QB is no different. When our line was playing decent, our starters at WR and TE were healthy, and we had some threat to run the ball (Richie), Vinny did well. Take all of that away and he looked bad. The same will be true of Bledsoe this year if the season plays out like that.

By the way anyone thinking that we weren't in dire straights last year at WR should read into Joyner's Stats. As the season progressed and we went through our options, Key actually became our verticle threat. He was running the largest percentage of deep medium and deep routes on the team late in the season. If Keyshawn is your deep threat, you are in trouble.

I won't argue with your stats or any of the rest of what you said since most of your response to me was actually directed at things other people said...not things I said. However, to say that Bledsoe would not have done any better is ONLY YOUR OPINION and one that I definitely do not share. Why? Because of what I said about Vinny not having a live arm.

You ask do I want my QB throwing laser shots all the time...well no, only when it is called for and throw a touch pass if that is what is called for (duh). But when it was called for late in the game Vinny threw NERF balls because that was all he had left...his arm was OLD and it was DEAD...sure he could do it 10 years ago but not last year. Bledsoe (being considerably younger) still has his arm and can still make those laser shot throws late in a game. That is the major difference in the two.

I noticed that of all the stats you pulled to support your stance that you simply did not address the TD to INT ratio of the two QB's. All of the other stats about WR's and TE's and OL's and etc. etc. etc. are subjective at best because they involve factors that are beyond the QB's control. But the TD to INT ratio is on the QB; he is the guy that threw the ball.

 

[playit12]

I won't argue with your stats or any of the rest of what you said since most of your response to me was actually directed at things other people said...not things I said. However, to say that Bledsoe would not have done any better is ONLY YOUR OPINION and one that I definitely do not share. Why? Because of what I said about Vinny not having a live arm.

You ask do I want my QB throwing laser shots all the time...well no, only when it is called for and throw a touch pass if that is what is called for (duh). But when it was called for late in the game Vinny threw NERF balls because that was all he had left...his arm was OLD and it was DEAD...sure he could do it 10 years ago but not last year. Bledsoe (being considerably younger) still has his arm and can still make those laser shot throws late in a game. That is the major difference in the two.

I noticed that of all the stats you pulled to support your stance that you simply did not address the TD to INT ratio of the two QB's. All of the other stats about WR's and TE's and OL's and etc. etc. etc. are subjective at best because they involve factors that are beyond the QB's control. But the TD to INT ratio is on the QB; he is the guy that threw the ball.

I guess I could have been more clear but I tried to address both of those points. First the live arm comment by the fact that Vinny threw much more often and with much greater distance all year than Bledsoe. It's hard to comment on the quality of these throws with any kind of stats other than to say that he was much more accurate on the season than Bledsoe was.

Personally I don't think you ever want a QB throwing 40 times a game, because the defense figures out your passing game by the 4th quarter. I think Bill figured that out over the off season and Drew won't be facing that situation.

Second for the TD to Int, I think a large part of that as I alluded to can be put on the recievers. When a reciever, as Morgan did last year, doesn't run out his route it looks like Vinney threw to the DB instead of his man. In fact it might have been a perfect pass in stride for the reciever, if the reciever was where he was supposed to be. I think this happend later as well with the rookies running the wrong routes or not reading the seams well. QB's throw the ball before the reciever is open, so that the ball gets to them as they get open. Waiting till the guy's open, backyard football style, would just give the defense time to read the play and get back into coverage. I was very frustrated last year for the last 4 or 5 games at the really poor decisions our WRs made.

Also Vinny was trying to carry the offense and force plays to account for the bad defense. Drew had the luxury of throwing the ball away and letting the D get it back for him. For Vinny each turnover by downs was probably some points, so why not risk the turnover and give your team a chance to win?

As to Drew not doing any better in the same situation... I think there is some evidence (the 2003 season) to support that statement.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Vinny was more accurate with the opposing DBs than he was with his WRs. Bledsoe might not have had the yards Vinny had, but he didn't have the receivers either. There are two numbers when it comes to QBs that I look at: TDs and INTs. Given last year's numbers, since that is where everyone is going, Vinny through 17 touchdowns to 21 INTs. Bledsoe threw 20 TDs and 16 picks. There may not be a huge step up in yardage, but I think there will be a marked improvement in TD:INT ratio.

You need to revise your points of reference. The numbers you should be looking at are TOs and TDs. The statistic you view tells only a partial story.

If you look at the TO to TD ratios for last season, (TOs include fumbles lost) they look like this.

Bledsoe TDs 20 and 21 Turn Overs.

Testaverde TDs 18 and 24 Turn Overs.

The difference is still in Bledsoe's favor but the disparity is not nearly as great. These include TDs rushing and passing and INTs as well as fumbles lost. The total number of fumbles is even greater, if you factor those in.

 

[Tass]

And the fans booed him. They booed him onto the field. As much as we slam on Philly fans, we booed a guy that just wanted to win.

I don't think the fans were booing Vinny so much as they were booing BP for not letting Henson finish what he started.

 

[Nors]

Vinnt Testaverde threw more interceptions than td's
Bledsoe threw more TD's than Interceptions

Bledsoe won more games