What do Quincy, Roger and Troy have in common?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Now you are being just plain silly, Staubach was an athletic guy, but he had now where near the athletic ability that Carter has, Not even close, Now I understand you hating on Carter and everything But Dude?

the word Impossible is a word that I hate, but there is no other word to use in this case, No way in Heck he was more athletic, That's just like saying Smarty Jones would have beaten Secretariat or Seattle Slew, Roger was gifted, but not that gifted.


You can come back at me with a response if you want, I'll not respond any more on that part of the debate, I'll bow out after you said that, whew!!!! that was a crucial statement.

Honest question. How old are you and did you have an opportunity to see Staubach play?

 

[junk]

Sure, Aikman was a timing based system QB. And a darn good one to boot. How about Tom Brady? Think he would excel in a Coryell type of system? Nope, also a system QB. How about Joe Montana? Seemed they ran alot of WCO over there. Also a system QB. How about Farve? Seems to me he has also been a WCO guy most of his life. The reason QBs become system QBs is because they excel at that system. Teams keep those systems intact because their QBs perform well in them.

Carter supporters keep trying to compare him to Aikman and they get testy when it looks like Aikman is the better QB. Thats because he IS the better QB. To even try to compare them at this point is ridiculous. Lets let Carter win a playoff game and throw more TDs than INTs in a season and maybe we can start to discuss it.

People can try to hide behind the excuse that Aikman had a good team around him, but it doesn't fly. Aikman helped make that team good. Emmitt Smith would not have broken the NFL rushing record without a QB of Aikman's caliber behind him. Irvin would not have 750 catches if he did not have a QB of Aikman's caliber throwing to him. Novacek would have been lost in a Plan B free agency wasteland without a QB of Aikman's caliber tossing the ball to him. What happened to Alvin Harper after he didn't have Troy throwing to him? Last I heard, he washed out of the XFL.

This team would be darn lucky to have a QB of a healthy Aikman's quality behind center right now. There sure as heck would not be a QB controversy. To try to dismiss the achievements of Aikman is something I would expect of a Commanders fan, not a Cowboys fan.

 

[Doomsday101]

Sure, Aikman was a timing based system QB. And a darn good one to boot. How about Tom Brady? Think he would excel in a Coryell type of system? Nope, also a system QB. How about Joe Montana? Seemed they ran alot of WCO over there. Also a system QB. How about Farve? Seems to me he has also been a WCO guy most of his life. The reason QBs become system QBs is because they excel at that system. Teams keep those systems intact because their QBs perform well in them.

Carter supporters keep trying to compare him to Aikman and they get testy when it looks like Aikman is the better QB. Thats because he IS the better QB. To even try to compare them at this point is ridiculous. Lets let Carter win a playoff game and throw more TDs than INTs in a season and maybe we can start to discuss it.

People can try to hide behind the excuse that Aikman had a good team around him, but it doesn't fly. Aikman helped make that team good. Emmitt Smith would not have broken the NFL rushing record without a QB of Aikman's caliber behind him. Irvin would not have 750 catches if he did not have a QB of Aikman's caliber throwing to him. Novacek would have been lost in a Plan B free agency wasteland without a QB of Aikman's caliber tossing the ball to him. What happened to Alvin Harper after he didn't have Troy throwing to him? Last I heard, he washed out of the XFL.

This team would be darn lucky to have a QB of a healthy Aikman's quality behind center right now. There sure as heck would not be a QB controversy. To try to dismiss the achievements of Aikman is something I would expect of a Commanders fan, not a Cowboys fan.

I agree with what your saying

 

[BHendri5]

Honest question. How old are you and did you have an opportunity to see Staubach play?

I'm 39yrs, I have been watching the Cowboys since I was a year old running around with Bob Hayes numbe written on a white T-shirt. Yes I saw all of Roger's games and I watched Morton and Meriedith too. The Cowboys was the only team that was watched on our Television, if you were anything but a Cowboys fan in my family, you might have run the risk of being kicked out LOL

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm 39yrs, I have been watching the Cowboys since I was a year old running around with Bob Hayes numbe written on a white T-shirt. Yes I saw all of Roger's games and I watched Morton and Meriedith too. The Cowboys was the only team that was watched on our Television, if you were anything but a Cowboys fan in my family, you might have run the risk of being kicked out LOL

Interesting.

I share in the opinion that Staubach was a better athlete then Carter. JMO

 

[BHendri5]

Interesting.

I share in the opinion that Staubach was a better athlete then Carter. JMO

It is interesting. To me running, speed, quickness, jumping, strength, agility stuff like that is athletic ability.

That is being athletic. For example I'll use myself, whenever I step on the basketball court, the ballers or the wanna be ballers, see me as a football guy, they look at my physique, so they figure I can't hoop.

But by the time the game is over, they realized that looks can be decieving, and all that they had on me was youth and stamina (energy) and on top of that they do not believe that I'm pushing 40yrs old.

My response always is that I'm an athlete, I can play any sport.

I guess it depends on what we judge as athletic ability.

 

[junk]

It is interesting. To me running, speed, quickness, jumping, strength, agility stuff like that is athletic ability.

That is being athletic. For example I'll use myself, whenever I step on the basketball court, the ballers or the wanna be ballers, see me as a football guy, they look at my physique, so they figure I can't hoop.

But by the time the game is over, they realized that looks can be decieving, and all that they had on me was youth and stamina (energy) and on top of that they do not believe that I'm pushing 40yrs old.

My response always is that I'm an athlete, I can play any sport.

I guess it depends on what we judge as athletic ability.

He can also outrun Drew Henson for 40 yards, but after that Drew could probably beat him.

 

[jterrell]

Sure, Aikman was a timing based system QB. And a darn good one to boot. How about Tom Brady? Think he would excel in a Coryell type of system? Nope, also a system QB. How about Joe Montana? Seemed they ran alot of WCO over there. Also a system QB. How about Farve? Seems to me he has also been a WCO guy most of his life. The reason QBs become system QBs is because they excel at that system. Teams keep those systems intact because their QBs perform well in them.

Carter supporters keep trying to compare him to Aikman and they get testy when it looks like Aikman is the better QB. Thats because he IS the better QB. To even try to compare them at this point is ridiculous. Lets let Carter win a playoff game and throw more TDs than INTs in a season and maybe we can start to discuss it.

People can try to hide behind the excuse that Aikman had a good team around him, but it doesn't fly. Aikman helped make that team good. Emmitt Smith would not have broken the NFL rushing record without a QB of Aikman's caliber behind him. Irvin would not have 750 catches if he did not have a QB of Aikman's caliber throwing to him. Novacek would have been lost in a Plan B free agency wasteland without a QB of Aikman's caliber tossing the ball to him. What happened to Alvin Harper after he didn't have Troy throwing to him? Last I heard, he washed out of the XFL.

This team would be darn lucky to have a QB of a healthy Aikman's quality behind center right now. There sure as heck would not be a QB controversy. To try to dismiss the achievements of Aikman is something I would expect of a Commanders fan, not a Cowboys fan.

I agree with almost of all of what you say wholeheartedly.

However I find it is generally the Carter haters who are so hung up on the term system QB.

I dont think any sane person is saying Carter is better than Aikman.

 

[junk]

I agree with almost of all of what you say wholeheartedly.

However I find it is generally the Carter haters who are so hung up on the term system QB.

I dont think any sane person is saying Carter is better than Aikman.

Well, people on both sides of the issues have their hangups on this and that. Sometimes the hangups go both ways (stats are OK if they support my guy, my meaningless if they dont, etc).

And I think there are people trying to imply Carter is better (or has better upside) than Aikman. I have no idea about their sanity.

 

[Nors]

Troy was more than a system QB. There are many throws that Troy could pull off that Carter can't, such as a 20 yard out on a frozen rope with great accuracy. Time after time Troy would hit Irvin in the numbers on that rout. In games where Dallas was forced to pass a lot more such as the NFC Championship games aginst GB Troy matched Favre through out the day. To claim Troy was nothing more than a system QB is far from reality

Emmitt Smith - Hall of Famer
Michael Irvin - Hall of Famer
Jay Novacek
Daryl Johnston
Larry Allen (prime) Erik Williams(Prime)

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It is interesting. To me running, speed, quickness, jumping, strength, agility stuff like that is athletic ability.

That is being athletic. For example I'll use myself, whenever I step on the basketball court, the ballers or the wanna be ballers, see me as a football guy, they look at my physique, so they figure I can't hoop.

But by the time the game is over, they realized that looks can be decieving, and all that they had on me was youth and stamina (energy) and on top of that they do not believe that I'm pushing 40yrs old.

My response always is that I'm an athlete, I can play any sport.

I guess it depends on what we judge as athletic ability.

I can not honestly say that I know how fast or how quick Staubach was. Honestly, I don't know what his numbers were. I can only base my opinions off of observations of both players on field production. I can clearly remember Staubach and his play. Based on that, and I recongnize that memory is not a full proof methode of gaging this, Staubach was much better. He was more ellusive, could make plays on the move with much better efficiancy and was a much more natural althlete in the pocket. I agree that physical skill is a large part of being a good athlete but so is an intuitive ability to know, not just understand, how to use your abilities in any given situation. I won't say it's knowing what to do because I don't believie it is. It's feeling what to do and letting your abilities take over. Carter can't do this, from what I have observed. Staubach could.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. I feel like Staubach was one of the best natural athletes I've ever seen at the QB position. I would say that Carter will never be seen in this same light. JMO

 

[BHendri5]

I can not honestly say that I know how fast or how quick Staubach was. Honestly, I don't know what his numbers were. I can only base my opinions off of observations of both players on field production. I can clearly remember Staubach and his play. Based on that, and I recongnize that memory is not a full proof methode of gaging this, Staubach was much better. He was more ellusive, could make plays on the move with much better efficiancy and was a much more natural althlete in the pocket. I agree that physical skill is a large part of being a good athlete but so is an intuitive ability to know, not just understand, how to use your abilities in any given situation. I won't say it's knowing what to do because I don't believie it is. It's feeling what to do and letting your abilities take over. Carter can't do this, from what I have observed. Staubach could.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. I feel like Staubach was one of the best natural athletes I've ever seen at the QB position. I would say that Carter will never be seen in this same light. JMO

Yeah we will just disagree. But I have to say this, what you are basing your opinion on is not athletic ability. Basically you remember Staubach as I remember him, but the Staubach we remember was a more mature and experienced one, we do not remember Staubach early years. We remember the one that time in the same system, the same players, which helped him to be able to do all the things he was able to do, Carter has not had that yet.

But rest assure however quick or fast Staubach was, Carter is that much quicker and faster, that is easy to see, Carter is more fluid in his movements, no contest, you are basing your Opinion on the mental aspect which time and maturity helped Staubach, and it will help Carter also.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah we will just disagree. But I have to say this, what you are basing your opinion on is not athletic ability. Basically you remember Staubach as I remember him, but the Staubach we remember was a more mature and experienced one, we do not remember Staubach early years. We remember the one that time in the same system, the same players, which helped him to be able to do all the things he was able to do, Carter has not had that yet.

But rest assure however quick or fast Staubach was, Carter is that much quicker and faster, that is easy to see, Carter is more fluid in his movements, no contest, you are basing your Opinion on the mental aspect which time and maturity helped Staubach, and it will help Carter also.

This would be a completely incorrect assumption. I remember Staubach in the early years with the Cowboys and even then, he was a much more athletic player in my view. Staubach was a much more effective scrambler then Carter has shown to be and he was much more accurate while on the run. This has very little to do with the fog of memory here. I remember Staubach playing when he was very young. Carter is not the same kind of athlete in my view.

If you were to look at Carter's season last year, his third year and Staubach's third year, you would see that Staubach rushed for significantly more yardage and that his completion % was higher in an era of professional football where it was much, much more difficult to throw the football. I will conceed that QC threw for far more yards but, as you know, this is because the game has changed in order to promote the passing game. In those days, that was not the case.

I know what my own eyes saw. Just to support that, you can look at the statistics and they too will tell the same story. Staubach was a very mobile QB in those days. He was not a drop back passer. Many of the things he did were on the run. In that style of play, he rushed for significantly more yardage on fewer attempts and threw with more accuracy. These are the facts.