What do we have that someone else wants?

Fla Cowpoke

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,025
Reaction score
12,046
Walker was going to help that team win 4-5 games instead of 1. It was a no brainer to trade him and set yourself up for the future. We are a middle of the road team right now...most fans wouldn't go for throwing the towel on a season now. Heck, we have people that know we have minimal cap room without pushing money into the future that were screaming when we weren't active to start free agency. We aren't void of talent as that team was and outside of Romo, I don't think there is one player that bumps the needle more than a game or two at best.
 

Fla Cowpoke

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,025
Reaction score
12,046
I think this is that we have that other teams want

Download-Dallas-Cowboys-Cheerleaders-Wallpaper.jpg
 

ChooChoo73

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
603
Now, what would you give up to get Luck?

Whatever they asked for. They could scratch out Cowboys and replace it with colts for the 2014 and 2015 draft leaving us only with our 6 7th rounders in 2014.
 

noshame

I'm not dead yet......
Messages
14,936
Reaction score
13,420
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Whatever they asked for. They could scratch out Cowboys and replace it with colts for the 2014 and 2015 draft leaving us only with our 6 7th rounders in 2014.

Not to mention I'd throw in Jerry and Red to boot!
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
On "A Football Life - Jimmy Johnson" JJ talks about his thinking when he made the Herschel Walker trade. Basically he said they had no talent except for Herschel and that it was going to take a long time to rebuild with our own picks so my question is that kind of thinking relevant now?

Different era with no salary cap.
 

starfrombirth

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,084
Reaction score
1,419
They could draft Mike Evans, trade Dez and use the 60M+ contract that Dez is going to get on defensive free agents.

Witten salary is a reasonable 5M per year. Even at his age a team might give a mid round pick for him.

Some people think they could get a 6th round pick for Orton.

The best thing they can do in terms of giving up current value for future value would be to cut expensive players and minimize spending in 2014. They can then use the money saved in 2014 to sign some top free agents in 2015.

I was thinking along these lines myself. As I said earlier, I love what Dez has done for us and how he's turned out buuut his back scares me and he still has value to the rest of the league. We could realistically get two firsts and a second for him.
 

Bullflop

Cowboys Diehard
Messages
25,712
Reaction score
30,906
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
The good old days when many of our players were vastly overrated leaguewide are long gone. Other teams won't be inclined to overcompensate for our players any longer, nor should they. As has been noted already, draft picks nowadays are considered to be worth their weight in gold. They won't likely be traded recklessly for any so called "elite" player like they once may have been. Even back then, it didn't take Minnesota long to see the error they made in giving up so much for Walker. They dismissed their GM abruptly once they discovered the sad truth.
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
On "A Football Life - Jimmy Johnson" JJ talks about his thinking when he made the Herschel Walker trade. Basically he said they had no talent except for Herschel and that it was going to take a long time to rebuild with our own picks so my question is that kind of thinking relevant now?

We had talent because we had players that were there before Jimmy like Tuinea, Irvin, Newton, etc. We were just severely depleted in many other areas. Plus, Jimmy incorporated his own defense which was a 4-3, but with smaller and faster players. It was considered to be a 'high school defense' because the pros mostly used big 3-4 schemes. I remember a high school coach in my area saying at the time that you could get away with smaller, quick players on defense at the high school level, but didn't think it would work in the pros.

Anyway, the issue with Jimmy's defense is that it requires a lot of depth on the D-Line. The rest of the league didn't cycle in players back then repeatedly like they do now. So we had a fairly weak D-Line that didn't fit the scheme and we needed more players since we were not going to have 4 down linemen playing every snap.

We also has poor training facilities according to Jimmy and that had to change.

I think a team should always look to build thru the draft and to stockpile picks. The injury rate is so high and it can sap the performance of a player so suddenly that you need new, young talent coming in. The problem is that the bust rate in the draft is high as well (partially due to injuries). So you're better off playing the law of averages. Lastly, I think pumping in a mass influx of rookies keeps the veterans motivated. To me, this is the grandest mistake that Jerry has made since Jimmy skipped out of town.







YR
 

starfrombirth

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,084
Reaction score
1,419
I think a team should always look to build thru the draft and to stockpile picks. The injury rate is so high and it can sap the performance of a player so suddenly that you need new, young talent coming in. The problem is that the bust rate in the draft is high as well (partially due to injuries). So you're better off playing the law of averages. Lastly, I think pumping in a mass influx of rookies keeps the veterans motivated. To me, this is the grandest mistake that Jerry has made since Jimmy skipped out of town.

YR

That was something special about Jimmy... he could evaluate talent better than anyone. They did a rundown of his picks and soooo many of them turned out to be great to HOF players. It was amazing!
I think we've been a little better recently in talent acquisition and that is a trend that must continue. One problem is tho that Jerry won't take draft picks for his players. When is the last time we traded anyone for picks. Talking Cowboys asked this question about why we didn't try and get anything for Ware once we decided to move on. I still haven't seen a good explanation yet. Did Ware need to go? Yes but we should have at least tried to get something for him. Do people think we couldn't at least got a 2nd for him if not a 1st? I think we should have traded Ware and Rat both.... Anything is better than nothing. At least make the attempt.
 

NEODOG

44cowboys22
Messages
2,487
Reaction score
2,735
They could draft Mike Evans, trade Dez and use the 60M+ contract that Dez is going to get on defensive free agents.

Witten salary is a reasonable 5M per year. Even at his age a team might give a mid round pick for him.

Some people think they could get a 6th round pick for Orton.

The best thing they can do in terms of giving up current value for future value would be to cut expensive players and minimize spending in 2014. They can then use the money saved in 2014 to sign some top free agents in 2015.


While the thought of this happening is slim....... I do agree! I would miss Dez's passion though. Be tuff for me to pull the trigger....

Witten while still very good, is on the backside. I'd still holdout for a 2nd r'der.

If someone gave me a pick girl Orton, I'm game regardless as what we pay him is ridiculous!
 

DFWJC

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,981
Reaction score
48,728
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Whatever they asked for. They could scratch out Cowboys and replace it with colts for the 2014 and 2015 draft leaving us only with our 6 7th rounders in 2014.

I don't think he was available for trade. The Colts knew they had won the lotto and were not parting with that ticket.
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
That was something special about Jimmy... he could evaluate talent better than anyone. They did a rundown of his picks and soooo many of them turned out to be great to HOF players. It was amazing!
I think we've been a little better recently in talent acquisition and that is a trend that must continue. One problem is tho that Jerry won't take draft picks for his players. When is the last time we traded anyone for picks. Talking Cowboys asked this question about why we didn't try and get anything for Ware once we decided to move on. I still haven't seen a good explanation yet. Did Ware need to go? Yes but we should have at least tried to get something for him. Do people think we couldn't at least got a 2nd for him if not a 1st? I think we should have traded Ware and Rat both.... Anything is better than nothing. At least make the attempt.

I think Jimmy's specialty is that he knew how players of all backgrounds think and he knew how to use it to motivate them. Parcells was very good at this as well, but he had more of a smaller range of players that he knew what made them tick and in the end, he would usually end up with very business like players. Jimmy's scope was wider in terms of personalities he could motivate.

I will never forget when Jimmy was at the U. and they had ran up the score against Notre Dame and their players liked to celebrate and the media and even the school's Chancellor condemned the team for running up the score and celebrating the way they did. I personally have a dislike for it as well (it's disrespectful). But, you could see after the game the players were hanging their heads a bit because of the constant barrage of negativity and Jimmy says to the effect:

'Hey, we will never apologize for winning and playing Hurricane football!'

And you can see that immediately bring the player's heads and moods up.

I'm not a big fan of Jimmy. To me, wanting to leave the Cowboys for the freaking Dolphins is sacrilege to me. He was also an ingrate to Jerry as people thought Jerry was crazy for hiring him and even crazier after he kept him around after going 1-15. Jimmy also flip-flops so many times on subjects that it is hard to believe a word he says.

But, he was a great coach because he understood how important the mental part of football was and how to use that with so many different personalities. And that's where the 'right kind of guy' theory can fail. It's hard to compile those 100% self-motivated types. More often than not you may be lucky to get a dozen of those types while the others are self motivated maybe 50% of the time. If you don't have the coach that help get those players that are not always 100% motivated, then you're just chasing a false ideology and the team will fail.





YR
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,193
Reaction score
64,699
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I was thinking along these lines myself. As I said earlier, I love what Dez has done for us and how he's turned out buuut his back scares me and he still has value to the rest of the league. We could realistically get two firsts and a second for him.

You have to realize that he only has a year remaining on his contract. A team that would be interesting in trading for him knows that they have to pay him.

Getting 2 firsts and a second for him is probably unrealistic.

Remember that in this scenario, if Mike Evans if really a superstar type player, you're saving about 10M+ per year for 4 years even if you just let Dez play out his contract and didn't trade him; therefore, anything you get in a trade would basically be a bonus. It would be bad for 2014, but they're structuring 2014 as a rebuilding type year anyway. By 2015 you would have Mike Evan with a year of experience and an extra 10M+ from not resigning Dez to spend on defensive free agents. You would be in good shape in 2015 if you just got a 2nd round pick for Dez to add to the massive amount of cap space that was saved.
 

ChooChoo73

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
603
I don't think he was available for trade. The Colts knew they had won the lotto and were not parting with that ticket.

How lucky can a franchise get with Manning to Luck. Geez. We did get Austin to Williams though. Guess I should count my blessings. :)
 

jday

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,321
Reaction score
13,284
The only tradeable player on the roster now who remotely resembles Walker status then is Dez Bryant. The roster situation then and now is dissimilar in that the roster now is more talented. The need to sacrifice Bryant to upgrade the roster now is much less than the need to sacrifice Walker back then.


And there is no way you are going to get anywhere close to the same deal for Dez that Jimmy got for Hershel.
 
Top