CFZ What Does This Team Really Want from the Players It Pays Big?

Sydla

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I get that and I still take Lamb. I think we have a better chance to win without Martin than Lamb.
I tend to think it's the opposite. You remove Martin and an already questionable line is really questionable. There is a trickle down effect. Biadasz probably isn't nearly as adequate as he is if he suddenly is playing next to some schmuck at RG. Steele? I like him but again, he's probably a different player with a schlub at RG.

Lamb is clearly a more talented player at this point but while neither outcome is ideal (and likely the Cowboys can't survive if either gets hurt), there is a bigger trickle down effect IMO if Martin is lost to injury.
 

Praxit

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In a lot of ways, I like the move of not paying Zack Martin any more than his contract is worth. He wanted that contract; he got it. Why renegotiate the deal? Play it out, then score another contract. Plus how much have we heard about Zack Martin's workout plan and how hard he's been training. The same ole same ole, every year. He's one of those guys Broadudus talks about who come in looking the same every year.

Meanwhile, like it or not, we have a player like Diggs, who is still very young, and still playing lights out, playing big, more or less, until I guess it came to really big. I was making excuses for Diggs last year, and I hope this offseason he bulks up and comes in ready and prepared to lay some wood. High rep workouts can keep you lean and strong, and Diggs should be hitting it like Parsons, and I suspect he is...
I
Anyway, this whole holding out thing isn't going to sit well, and was ill-timed by Martin. I respect his game,but he couldn't have timed it any worse than this.
That said, there's a bigger overall picture here. The Cowboys are outwardly resistant to paying him any more than this contract, and they apparently realize the future lies ahead. And then there's Martin, well like Zeke, at 32-years old, and aging, like the rest of us, and you just kinda squirm even though he's a big part of our game, because he isn't as good as he once was.. Just still good, and plays his role well Do the Cowboys dare disrespect a guy with so many Pro Bowls? One who they know is aging?

The Pro Bowl is a measure of popularity. If you look at the stat sheets, I wouldn't say Martin was close to being the best guard in the league last year, overall.

I guess we'll see. I'm a fan who never gets in any other players' pockets, rarely, if ever do I comment on those thread. But this throws it in my face, and now I have to consider it

Since the topic of scarcity has come up, I'd rather give that money to the older players who still come in and dominate at times, like Dlaw, and the younger guys, Parsons, Diggs, etc.

That's your triplets on this team. And then there's CeeDee Lamb and Pollard on offense. Plus Dak, Gallup and now Cooks! Without those three, there's no backbone, and i'm no cap expert so I don't really care to understand how it all works, in detail, plus I realize it can be offeset and so on, but back to the topic, I guess what I'm saying is that they know there's a youth movement coming on, and they want to secure their players.

You can't pay someone for their popularity. That's all the Pro-Bowl really is. Martin needs to get that through his head, and play. Or I think the Cowboys walk away from that one well within their tight to do so for the betterment of the team. Martin is still good. But he's not worth more than what he's already making.

How can you not be happy with $86,000,000?
some of them must think, they actually have Musk skills.
 

Sydla

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meant to say disagree instead I typed agree.

where would you rank Guard in the offensive positions importance?
Typically I'd say OT over OG. But there are some unique situations and I believe Martin is one. Why? Because Martin is so good that he makes Biadasz and Steele better than they are. Biadasz is a decent enough center but if you put a schlub next to him instead of Martin? Yeah, I think OC becomes a bigger issue than people would like.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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I tend to think it's the opposite. You remove Martin and an already questionable line is really questionable. There is a trickle down effect. Biadasz probably isn't nearly as adequate as he is if he suddenly is playing next to some schmuck at RG. Steele? I like him but again, he's probably a different player with a schlub at RG.

Lamb is clearly a more talented player at this point but while neither outcome is ideal (and likely the Cowboys can't survive if either gets hurt), there is a bigger trickle down effect IMO if Martin is lost to injury.
I just don’t think we have a chance if Gallup or Cooks are our number ones….you can at least get to the playoffs with a bad offensive line.
 

john van brocklin

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In a lot of ways, I like the move of not paying Zack Martin any more than his contract is worth. He wanted that contract; he got it. Why renegotiate the deal? Play it out, then score another contract. Plus how much have we heard about Zack Martin's workout plan and how hard he's been training. The same ole same ole, every year. He's one of those guys Broadudus talks about who come in looking the same every year.

Meanwhile, like it or not, we have a player like Diggs, who is still very young, and still playing lights out, playing big, more or less, until I guess it came to really big. I was making excuses for Diggs last year, and I hope this offseason he bulks up and comes in ready and prepared to lay some wood. High rep workouts can keep you lean and strong, and Diggs should be hitting it like Parsons, and I suspect he is...
I
Anyway, this whole holding out thing isn't going to sit well, and was ill-timed by Martin. I respect his game,but he couldn't have timed it any worse than this.
That said, there's a bigger overall picture here. The Cowboys are outwardly resistant to paying him any more than this contract, and they apparently realize the future lies ahead. And then there's Martin, well like Zeke, at 32-years old, and aging, like the rest of us, and you just kinda squirm even though he's a big part of our game, because he isn't as good as he once was.. Just still good, and plays his role well Do the Cowboys dare disrespect a guy with so many Pro Bowls? One who they know is aging?

The Pro Bowl is a measure of popularity. If you look at the stat sheets, I wouldn't say Martin was close to being the best guard in the league last year, overall.

I guess we'll see. I'm a fan who never gets in any other players' pockets, rarely, if ever do I comment on those thread. But this throws it in my face, and now I have to consider it

Since the topic of scarcity has come up, I'd rather give that money to the older players who still come in and dominate at times, like Dlaw, and the younger guys, Parsons, Diggs, etc.

That's your triplets on this team. And then there's CeeDee Lamb and Pollard on offense. Plus Dak, Gallup and now Cooks! Without those three, there's no backbone, and i'm no cap expert so I don't really care to understand how it all works, in detail, plus I realize it can be offeset and so on, but back to the topic, I guess what I'm saying is that they know there's a youth movement coming on, and they want to secure their players.

You can't pay someone for their popularity. That's all the Pro-Bowl really is. Martin needs to get that through his head, and play. Or I think the Cowboys walk away from that one well within their tight to do so for the betterment of the team. Martin is still good. But he's not worth more than what he's already making.

How can you not be happy with $86,000,000?
Performance commensurate with pay.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Typically I'd say OT over OG. But there are some unique situations and I believe Martin is one. Why? Because Martin is so good that he makes Biadasz and Steele better than they are. Biadasz is a decent enough center but if you put a schlub next to him instead of Martin? Yeah, I think OC becomes a bigger issue than people would like.
I think with the death of FB in football, Guard ranks last on the offensive side of the ball in terms of importance. its QB, LT, WR, TE, Center, RB, Guard.

I don't deny Martin makes players around him better, but you don't get to the superbowl because you have the best guard in the league. last year the LG position was a revolving door and has been for a while. would it be better to have two top 10 guards as opposed to the a top 3 guard and an average guard in the other position. essentially how would you invest your money on the OL. more than any other unit in football, the OL wins/loses as a group. you can have the best dang LT in football ever, but if the rest of the OL is average, your offense will suffer. I love martin. don't get me wrong. he is great. but do we really need to have the highest paid guard in NFL for success?
 

Pass2Run

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I am not sure where to begino with this.

1) For starters we have not heard from Martin or his camp. This was all a report based on what insiders in Dallas are saying. So people throwing crap at Martin for holding out is a reach at this point because we have no idea if he's going to hold or even intends to hold out.

2) Not sure why you continually mention Pro Bowl. Martin was a firs team ALL PRO last year (his 6th). It's voted on by media, etc. So to say he wasn't close to being the best guard in the league last year is weird. He was voted

3) Imagine saying you'd rather give money to older players who come in and still dominate at times, list Lawrence, but then not list Martin. Again, he was 1st team All Pro last year.

4) Martin has no guaranteed money and only one year left on his deal. It's really not all that surprising or uncommon for a player of his stature to look for a new deal at this time.
Pro Bowls are voted on by the fans... not a legitimate measure of performance, at all.
 

kskboys

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I think with the death of FB in football, Guard ranks last on the offensive side of the ball in terms of importance. its QB, LT, WR, TE, Center, RB, Guard.

I don't deny Martin makes players around him better, but you don't get to the superbowl because you have the best guard in the league. last year the LG position was a revolving door and has been for a while. would it be better to have two top 10 guards as opposed to the a top 3 guard and an average guard in the other position. essentially how would you invest your money on the OL. more than any other unit in football, the OL wins/loses as a group. you can have the best dang LT in football ever, but if the rest of the OL is average, your offense will suffer. I love martin. don't get me wrong. he is great. but do we really need to have the highest paid guard in NFL for success?
Of course. However, having crapp at OG will keep you from winning the super bowl. Ask Cincy!!!!!! You add Martin to the Bengals roster in 21, and they win the super bowl.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Of course. However, having crapp at OG will keep you from winning the super bowl. Ask Cincy!!!!!! You add Martin to the Bengals roster in 21, and they win the super bowl.
I don't disagree with you at all. but having the best guard in the league doesn't guarantee you a superbowl. and martin maybe the last piece of the puzzle for them, they had a lot of other pieces in place. my argument is not that Guard is not an important position. never said that. but how much do you invest in guard position? do you need the best guard in the league to find success? would the best guard and trash as guard be better option that having two top 10ish guards? again, name the guards for KC who just won the superbowl? don't google it
 

GINeric

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If this was NE, I think Prescott, Lamb and Diggs would all be on the trade blocks. And Gallup and Pollard would be gone. The team would have all sorts of shiny new pieces heading into the season. But what they have is a broken part time RB and an overrated overpaid #3 WR.

And that's why New England is, and have been an average team since Brady left. Shuffling players looks great and easy when you have a GOAT at quarterback.
 

kskboys

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I don't disagree with you at all. but having the best guard in the league doesn't guarantee you a superbowl. and martin maybe the last piece of the puzzle for them, they had a lot of other pieces in place. my argument is not that Guard is not an important position. never said that. but how much do you invest in guard position? do you need the best guard in the league to find success? would the best guard and trash as guard be better option that having two top 10ish guards? again, name the guards for KC who just won the superbowl? don't google it
Nothing guarantees a super bowl. Don't understand using that as a counter argument.

No, you don't need best OG in league. I'm not sure I would've paid Martin the first time.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Nothing guarantees a super bowl. Don't understand using that as a counter argument.

No, you don't need best OG in league. I'm not sure I would've paid Martin the first time.
my point is you invest your money in positions that contribute the most to success of a team. Guard is last on the least. you have 220M to spend. how do you spend it and put the best possible team out there. and I agree. I love martin. I think the money he got back then was fair, about what I would pay a top guard (not looking at the first year money, but subsequent years). I don't think I want to reinvest crazy dollars in Martin.
 

bigE79

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In a lot of ways, I like the move of not paying Zack Martin any more than his contract is worth. He wanted that contract; he got it. Why renegotiate the deal? Play it out, then score another contract. Plus how much have we heard about Zack Martin's workout plan and how hard he's been training. The same ole same ole, every year. He's one of those guys Broadudus talks about who come in looking the same every year.

Meanwhile, like it or not, we have a player like Diggs, who is still very young, and still playing lights out, playing big, more or less, until I guess it came to really big. I was making excuses for Diggs last year, and I hope this offseason he bulks up and comes in ready and prepared to lay some wood. High rep workouts can keep you lean and strong, and Diggs should be hitting it like Parsons, and I suspect he is...
I
Anyway, this whole holding out thing isn't going to sit well, and was ill-timed by Martin. I respect his game,but he couldn't have timed it any worse than this.
That said, there's a bigger overall picture here. The Cowboys are outwardly resistant to paying him any more than this contract, and they apparently realize the future lies ahead. And then there's Martin, well like Zeke, at 32-years old, and aging, like the rest of us, and you just kinda squirm even though he's a big part of our game, because he isn't as good as he once was.. Just still good, and plays his role well Do the Cowboys dare disrespect a guy with so many Pro Bowls? One who they know is aging?

The Pro Bowl is a measure of popularity. If you look at the stat sheets, I wouldn't say Martin was close to being the best guard in the league last year, overall.

I guess we'll see. I'm a fan who never gets in any other players' pockets, rarely, if ever do I comment on those thread. But this throws it in my face, and now I have to consider it

Since the topic of scarcity has come up, I'd rather give that money to the older players who still come in and dominate at times, like Dlaw, and the younger guys, Parsons, Diggs, etc.

That's your triplets on this team. And then there's CeeDee Lamb and Pollard on offense. Plus Dak, Gallup and now Cooks! Without those three, there's no backbone, and i'm no cap expert so I don't really care to understand how it all works, in detail, plus I realize it can be offeset and so on, but back to the topic, I guess what I'm saying is that they know there's a youth movement coming on, and they want to secure their players.

You can't pay someone for their popularity. That's all the Pro-Bowl really is. Martin needs to get that through his head, and play. Or I think the Cowboys walk away from that one well within their tight to do so for the betterment of the team. Martin is still good. But he's not worth more than what he's already making.

How can you not be happy with $86,000,000?
What does the team need from it's highest paid players? Not to choke,and I'm not including Martin in that last statement.
 
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