What I learned from watching Seattle and what we're doing wrong

[khiladi]

Sorry, I'm not getting your argument. I'm saying nobody's making a living passing deep on SEA. I'm not sure what you were seeing in that game yesterday that made you think there was an adjustment Manning was going to make that was going to let him be successful against that defense, though. The problem wasn't getting the ball where it needed to be--as evidenced by the SB completion record. The problem was the yards weren't there once the ball got there, and there was enough pressure that the QB was forced to make some poor decisions.

DEN tried to adjust in the second quarter, as I said, by putting blockers out on the edge for the WR screens. It didn't work. Manning's not going to be able to throw deep into the single high coverage against that secondary anymore, and we saw how the slants and picks worked for them yesterday. No reason to think they'd work any better on any other given Sunday. SEA didn't need a 35 point cushion to beat them. They could have done it with 6 as easily as they did it with 35.

So if nobody makes a living on the deep passes against Seattle, teams still beat them, especially away from home, without the deep pass. So what your saying is CK adjusts but Manning can't from game to game?

The problem was the TOs and special teams score that made the game get out of hand. Thomas fumble for example was sloppy. The INT by Manning, they were moving the ball. The time where they went on fourth on two when they could have gotten a field goal.

You think the Denver offense would spread as much knowing the pressure they were getting up front?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Carroll was thought by nearly everyone at the time to be a stupid hire by Seattle. He only left USC because of the sanctions he put on them with Reggie Bush, not because he was a great NFL coach and really wanted to be there. He had failed twice miserably before in the NFL so to say we should go find another Pete Carroll is crazy.

O really?

 

[Idgit]

So if nobody makes a living on the deep passes against Seattle, teams still beat them, especially away from home, without the deep pass. So what your saying is CK adjusts but Manning can't from game to game?

The problem was the TOs and special teams score that made the game get out of hand. Thomas fumble for example was sloppy. The INT by Manning, they were moving the ball. The time where they went on fourth on two when they could have gotten a field goal.

We can agree to disagree. But, by all means, PM me if they happen to play again. I'll give you the points, whatever they are, and we can settle this that way.

 

[Risen Star]

We can agree to disagree. But, by all means, PM me if they happen to play again. I'll give you the points, whatever they are, and we can settle this that way.

I'd recommend a good dust up. Always works for me.

 

[khiladi]

We can agree to disagree. But, by all means, PM me if they happen to play again. I'll give you the points, whatever they are, and we can settle this that way.

Seattle deserved that game no doubt, my point is simply Denver picked the wrong day to play their worst game in part because of Seattle's defense, but in part because Denver kept shooting itself in the foot and it was a unique opponent. Denver would definitely go more conservative next time and play less aggressive offensively. They came in cocky offensively, which was evident in their not taking the field goal attempt when down. They self-imploded.

 

[Idgit]

I'd recommend a good dust up. Always works for me.

Lol. I *almost* typed 'with a good dustup' there, but couldn't remember the phrase exactly, and was too lazy to go find your profile. But rest assured, there's going to be some good dusting, up in there, when they play each other again, and then me and khiladi will settle it.

I'm vaguely uncomfortable with that last sentence, and I"m not sure why.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Well, Pete Carrol had FAILED twice as a Pro Coach, so calling him proven is stretching a bit. However he had a great record as a college HC. I think taking a guy that has never had HC experience is a big gamble. And Red Ball had so little coaching experience anyway.

I want coaches that have tried and failed. I do not want a coach who has never coached before in their life and be given the keys to the kingdom, like Garrett has. Failing a few times doesn't mean you won't ever succeed. Failure is the path to success which is true in the business world as well.

 

[JackWagon]

If Pete Carrol is so bad why does he have both a National Championship in college football and a SuperBowl win? Not many can claim that. *shrug*

 

[ConstantReboot]

Did I say proven coach? I think I mentioned that we need a coach with experience. Honestly, I would prefer a coach who have done well in college and has failed a few times in the NFL ranks. Failing doesn't mean your going to keep failing. In this case Carroll learned from past mistakes and used what worked to build a team. Unfortunately, Garrett is not that type of coach because he has no experience in coaching. Building a team starts from the Head Coach down. If you don't know how to coach and are learning on the fly, go be a college coach and learn. In this case, Garrett should not have been coaching at all in the NFL.

 

[Nomad]

Hopefully with Seattle's win the idea that defense and a good run game is what you need will be what everyone is talking about, and maybe that will sink in with Jerry.

 

[Idgit]

Hopefully with Seattle's win the idea that defense and a good run game is what you need will be what everyone is talking about, and maybe that will sink in with Jerry.

You thought their running game is what won that for them yesterday?

It's passing effectively, and stopping the pass effectively. That's the lesson to be learned.

 

[chicago JK]

I am a positive person in real life, but I just have no hope the Cowboys will turn this thing around anytime soon. It effects my viewing of the games too. I expect bad things to happen and no longer get upset when they do.

I was thinking the other day, not only do we have the huge disadvantages in how we are structured but even good moves tend to turn out bad. For instance, Cleveland loses 10 games every year. The one time they don't and win 10 games is the one year we have their first round pick. The next year they go back to being again the stinky browns.

 

[KB1122]

What I learned is the importance of locking down your kicker with a seven-year contract.

 

[cowboysooner]

Here is what I see after watching
2. They have big DBs combined with a FS that has great range. They have excellent ball skills and are great at creating turnovers.
The Cowboys showed signs of being able to create turnovers in 2013. They had problems with big receivers. They had 5-10 Scandrick starting and their 4th and 5th CBs ended up being 5-10 Webb and 5-9 Moore.

3. They have a very deep DLine. None of them are really Super Stars, but they are about 3 deep with high quality NFL players.
The Cowboys spent to much on too few players. They need to either cut Ware or have him take a huge pay cut. They should let older players like Hatcher and Spencer move on. The Cowboys should avoid ever Franchising another player. It would be good to find some bargain free agents like Seattle did with Avril and Bennett.

5. They have a legit running threat. Denver might have over-focused on stopping the run.
Dallas has the ability in this area. The Dallas OL is as good if not a little better than Seattle's. Murray is a legit RB. The O-Coordinator must do a better job of situational running and quit abandoning it like they did in the game against the Packers.

6. Their QB is difficult to sack and he is very accurate on the run.
Romo has done it before. We'll see if his back is up to the task in 2014.

Great, great post Walker. Seattle is not great across the board but they are exceptional in a few places.

On 2, I can't gush enough about how good Earl Thomas is. He allows them not to disguise a ton of stuff and flip safeties. He is the best player on that team and it is not close. The only other player in the conversation for best safety in the league is Weddle. I don't think it is an accident that both teams gad some success against Denver. Both teams could force Welker out of the game and take away the deep throws in the middle and seem. manning is not going to beat you deep and outside the hashes like Bree's Kaepernick or Rogers. They played a ton of zone and their corners did not complain they were man specialists. Their linebackers are exceptional cover backers in zone. This immunized them from the rubs and illegal screens.

3. They also have a diverse group of players. Mebane and Bryant are below average maybe far below average pass rushers. However those two guys end runs in 4 gaps. They push pocket and make it uncomfortable. That allows some exceptional rush guys that can't play the run to stay on the field and numbers to be good enough in the run game. This Broadus Marinelli stuff of only wanting quick twitch rushers is not learning the lessons of the best defenses in this league like Seattle Nyj Arizona SF Carolina and cinncy. We need at least one 2 down 2 gap butt kicker. Blockers and Star have been those guys in recent drafts. This year we are going to maneuver away from Nix and that will be a mistake. Why do you care that you have the best all around player when the rules allow for situational substitution? When you add in Irvin and chancellor they have 4 specialty d starters.

5 and 6 are true but may be on fumes given Romos age.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It is much more than pure luck. They understand the league places value on these players and they assessed the other teams outlook on the late round choices. I'm sure they had other nuggets ready to draft if needed. Fact is that Seattle does have a superior scouting dept and was the best team in the Nfl over the last 5 years this team woulf beat all the previous SB champs.

but they passed on smith for 6 rounds. any of the 31 other teams could have picked him in the 6 rounds. so how did seattle know he will drop to 7th? they didn't. they had evaluated him as a 7th rounder.... same with some of the others.

every team hopes they pick up a gem in the lower rounds. they are either athletic players, but come from smaller school, or had injury history, or character flaws or something. there is a reason they fall and most of them don't make it. but this year, everyone is keying on seattle, hey look at their low round picks. and then it was the packers, then the steelers, then the patriots. its just that the teams that hit it, usually have a better chance because it won't eat up cap space and they can pay their main guys and bring in FA to complete and round up the team as seattle did. and yes, there is a bit of luck. we hit it with Rat as a 7th rounder.

and teams that win it, do it consistently and if you check, the steelers did it for a while, now they are not. patriots did it for a while, now they are not. same with GB, and Saints. all you need is hit on a few and you are good for several years.

not sure if this team would have beat all of the others. this is just excitement of the latest game I watched and they had a good game syndrome.

 

[xwalker]

Great, great post Walker. Seattle is not great across the board but they are exceptional in a few places.

On 2, I can't gush enough about how good Earl Thomas is. He allows them not to disguise a ton of stuff and flip safeties. He is the best player on that team and it is not close. The only other player in the conversation for best safety in the league is Weddle. I don't think it is an accident that both teams gad some success against Denver. Both teams could force Welker out of the game and take away the deep throws in the middle and seem. manning is not going to beat you deep and outside the hashes like Bree's Kaepernick or Rogers. They played a ton of zone and their corners did not complain they were man specialists. Their linebackers are exceptional cover backers in zone. This immunized them from the rubs and illegal screens.

3. They also have a diverse group of players. Mebane and Bryant are below average maybe far below average pass rushers. However those two guys end runs in 4 gaps. They push pocket and make it uncomfortable. That allows some exceptional rush guys that can't play the run to stay on the field and numbers to be good enough in the run game. This Broadus Marinelli stuff of only wanting quick twitch rushers is not learning the lessons of the best defenses in this league like Seattle Nyj Arizona SF Carolina and cinncy. We need at least one 2 down 2 gap butt kicker. Blockers and Star have been those guys in recent drafts. This year we are going to maneuver away from Nix and that will be a mistake. Why do you care that you have the best all around player when the rules allow for situational substitution? When you add in Irvin and chancellor they have 4 specialty d starters.

5 and 6 are true but may be on fumes given Romos age.

Thanks. Good follow up.

Good point about Nix. One of the DTs is always going to get double-teamed. Having a guy that can still power through a double-team seems like a good thing to have. Nix appears to be one of the quickest over 330 type DL that I've seen. The only guy that comes to mind that's probably quicker is Dontari Poe. I wouldn't have a problem drafting Nix, especially if they believe that he has the mental-makeup that would allow him to keep his weight on the lower side of his weight range.

I'm am concerned that Marinelli's love of the quick-twitch player could result in a lack of size on the DLine. As you said, Seattle has both. The have a couple of big guys in Mebane and Bryant and they bring in smaller guys on a situational basis. Marinelli's 1-tech in Chicago (Paea) was only about 6-1, 300, but he bench pressed 49 reps at the combine which I think is the record. They also had a big DE with Peppers at 290.

 

[montgod]

I am all for #7... Quinn from SEA should be the hot coaching hire soon enough.

 

[JackWagon]

What I learned is the importance of locking down your kicker with a seven-year contract.

ROFL

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't really buy all of that, Seattle played their worst game stuff. I mean, yes, it was their worst game but they didn't just pick a game to play it. I've seen Seattle play way too much this year and Denver got beaten up, just like a lot of teams did. To be honest, I probably would have taken Seattle, San Fran or Carolina over Denver and the Saints would have been a toss up IMO. I saw what our Offense did to the and I just don't believe that our offense is all that good.

No, Seattle dominated Denver offensively and if you can do that, then you can beat Denver because their defense is not very good IMO. They get the benefit of having a defense that plays with a great offense. They don't often get exposed but if you can bottle up their offense, you will see how poor the Denver Defense is IMO. Heck, Seattle's offense was ranked 17th this season. Ours was ranked 16th. They are just so much better defensively.

 

[5Stars]

Pete Carroll just summed it up in his press conference about players. If you are big and can run fast, you can play for the Seahawks, if not, you are out. Not sure what that says about Russell Wilson, but when RGKnee, Luck, and Wilson were being debated about who was best, I always thought that Wilson would be the best of them.