What if...

[ABQCOWBOY]

They went to a 3-4 last season.

If they did, I don't know who played LB for them. They have no ILBs on that team. They have needs outside of NT and there is no getting around that. They may take a NT, I would not say that's out of the question but in a 34, your impact players are LBs. If you have a chance to aquire one, I think you take one. NTs can be drafted later, as you well know. It would not surprise me to see it happen but I don't think that it's written in stone by a long shot. More likely to me that they would try and trade down. Would make more sense for them to do so IMO.

 

[Rack]

If they did, I don't know who played LB for them. They have no ILBs on that team. They have needs outside of NT and there is no getting around that. They may take a NT, I would not say that's out of the question but in a 34, your impact players are LBs. If you have a chance to aquire one, I think you take one. NTs can be drafted later, as you well know. It would not surprise me to see it happen but I don't think that it's written in stone by a long shot. More likely to me that they would try and trade down. Would make more sense for them to do so IMO.

They have Zach Thomas at ILB.


They drafted Channing Crowder last year, and he did pretty well for them at OLB.

Plus, they didn't go to a 3-4 fulltime last year. They'll likely do it this year though.

And I wouldn't say that LBs are the only Impact players in the 3-4. I don't care who the LBs are, if you don't have a solid NG, you won't stop the run.

 

[Barbarino]

Fisk was released when the Browns picked up Washington. Browns GM Savage all ready said that the Brown WILL take Ngate if he is there PERIOD, he doesn't except him to be there.

The Rams might take Ngata also.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They are in a position to take the BPA since they don't have great players at many positions. If Ngata were there, he would likely be the BPA. Plus, it would be filling a vital role in the 3-4 defense. He could even play DE and NG till Washington finally retires.


And the Browns have Reuben Droughns. They just gave him a new contract. They won't be drafting a RB in the first. He was their first 1000 yard rusher since 1985. Their OL has been worked on quite a bit the last two seasons. And they picked up Bentley this year. Aside from Justice, there won't be an OL available that is anywhere near worth that pick.


Also, it's not just 3-4 teams we have to worry about. Ngata could play in the 4-3 as well.

I don't know about this. I think Ngata could play NT in a 34 or 1 or 2 technique in a 43 but I don't know about a DE in a 34. If your gonna do that, it would make more sense to waite and take a guy like Wroten later in the draft. As far as the rest, you still come down to the same thing. You don't have enough LBs on your roster to be effective in a 34. Ngata is a definate possability but there's no way in the world that he's written in stone at this spot. To me, the best thing these guys could do is trade down, pick up picks and take a LB later in the first round. That would be the smart way to go IMO.

 

[Rack]

My best friend is a Browns fan.

Fisk was released when the Browns picked up Washington. Browns GM Savage all ready said that the Brown WILL take Ngate if he is there PERIOD, he doesn't except him to be there.

The Rams might take Ngata also.

Speak of the devil...


ABQ, Barbarino. Barbarino, ABQ.

 

[Rack]

I don't know about this. I think Ngata could play NT in a 34 or 1 or 2 technique in a 43 but I don't know about a DE in a 34. If your gonna do that, it would make more sense to waite and take a guy like Wroten later in the draft. As far as the rest, you still come down to the same thing. You don't have enough LBs on your roster to be effective in a 34. Ngata is a definate possability but there's no way in the world that he's written in stone at this spot. To me, the best thing these guys could do is trade down, pick up picks and take a LB later in the first round. That would be the smart way to go IMO.

You didn't read the whole statement. They'd play him at DE for 1 year, then move him to NG next year (and cut Washington). They'd get more out of him doing it that way instead of rotating him at NG with Washington.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They have Zach Thomas at ILB.


They drafted Channing Crowder last year, and he did pretty well for them at OLB.

Plus, they didn't go to a 3-4 fulltime last year. They'll likely do it this year though.

And I wouldn't say that LBs are the only Impact players in the 3-4. I don't care who the LBs are, if you don't have a solid NG, you won't stop the run.

You know as well as I do Rack that NGs in a 34 are generally not 1st round picks. LBs are. You can get a NT that will work in a later round. Not saying it's a bad pick by any means but if Ngata is there and you have the chance to trade out of the pick and move down and get a LB like Carpenter later, why wouldn't you consider this?

I would not be surprised to see them pick Ngata but I would not bet the farm on it either.

 

[Rack]

As far as the rest, you still come down to the same thing.

And? You don't draft for need, and it's a lot harder to find a good NG then it is to find LBs for a 3-4. They have 3 that can play in the 3-4 now. All they need is a WOLB (aka the Tweener) and there will likely be some of those available for the 2nd and 3rd round picks.


It comes down to value. Who is the better value? Ngata or ANY of the LBs in this draft not named Hawk? Ngata by far. The only LB that comes close (that they need) is Lawson. I could see them drafting Lawson, but only if Ngata isn't available. Ngata is still the better player.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Fisk was released when the Browns picked up Washington. Browns GM Savage all ready said that the Brown WILL take Ngate if he is there PERIOD, he doesn't except him to be there.

The Rams might take Ngata also.

I would be very skeptical of any GM who came out weeks ahead of the draft and gave away your draft strategy to anybody who would listen.

As for the Rams, they have Pickett, Kennedy and Glover on the roster right now at DT. They have no CBs or LBs to speak of. I don't know what they will do but I'm not so sure it would be a DT.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Speak of the devil...


ABQ, Barbarino. Barbarino, ABQ.

Barbarino, welcome to the board.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You didn't read the whole statement. They'd play him at DE for 1 year, then move him to NG next year (and cut Washington). They'd get more out of him doing it that way instead of rotating him at NG with Washington.

Well Rack, we could do this all day but it's still a real possability this team could trade down. It would make more sense for them to do so IMO. They got a lot of holes to fill. It could be that the value for them could be OLB at a lower position while picking up picks. It's tough to know what will happen here. So many players that are right there IMO. Ngata, to me, is not one of the 10 or 12 guys that might be Blue Chip. I think he's just below that.

 

[Rack]

You know as well as I do Rack that NGs in a 34 are generally not 1st round picks. LBs are. You can get a NT that will work in a later round. Not saying it's a bad pick by any means but if Ngata is there and you have the chance to trade out of the pick and move down and get a LB like Carpenter later, why wouldn't you consider this?

I would not be surprised to see them pick Ngata but I would not bet the farm on it either.

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong.


3-4 teams:

Browns: 1 first round LB (McGinest).

Dolphins: None.

Patriots: None.

Steelers: 1 (James Farior) and they didn't draft him. Casey Hampton is their NG (1st round pick).

Chargers: 1 (merriman).

Cowboys: 1 (Ware).

Niners: None.


No 3-4 team in the NFL has more then 1 first round pick on their team, and 2 of those teams didn't actually draft that player.


So out of 28 starting 3-4 LBs, 4 are first round picks.


Out of 7 starting NGs, at least 2 are first round picks (actually it might be more, I didn't research this. Just going by what I know) Hampton and Wilfork.


That's a higher percentage of 1st round NGs then 1st round 3-4 backers.


And none of that even matters. Again, it's about VALUE.

Should they take the BETTER NG that they NEED or the lesser OLB that they need? They need both. Why not take the better player?

 

[Rack]

Well Rack, we could do this all day but it's still a real possability this team could trade down. It would make more sense for them to do so IMO. They got a lot of holes to fill. It could be that the value for them could be OLB at a lower position while picking up picks. It's tough to know what will happen here. So many players that are right there IMO. Ngata, to me, is not one of the 10 or 12 guys that might be Blue Chip. I think he's just below that.

Very possible... If Ngata isn't there.

 

[Rack]

I would be very skeptical of any GM who came out weeks ahead of the draft and gave away your draft strategy to anybody who would listen.

As for the Rams, they have Pickett, Kennedy and Glover on the roster right now at DT. They have no CBs or LBs to speak of. I don't know what they will do but I'm not so sure it would be a DT.

Pickett is a Titan now. Kennedy is a bust (I predicted that one) and glover is a 3 technique and old. They very well could take Ngata.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And? You don't draft for need, and it's a lot harder to find a good NG then it is to find LBs for a 3-4. They have 3 that can play in the 3-4 now. All they need is a WOLB (aka the Tweener) and there will likely be some of those available for the 2nd and 3rd round picks.


It comes down to value. Who is the better value? Ngata or ANY of the LBs in this draft not named Hawk? Ngata by far. The only LB that comes close (that they need) is Lawson. I could see them drafting Lawson, but only if Ngata isn't available. Ngata is still the better player.

The problem is, you need 6 or 8 and they have 3. But more then that, I think the real problem here is how you view Ngata and how I view him. I don't think he's one of those can't miss guys. I think he's in the next mix. I can see you do view him that way. Your not alone. Several guys do. I've watched Ngata and while he can dominate, I've also seen him go away in games. Sometimes all game.

 

[Rack]

The problem is, you need 6 or 8 and they have 3. But more then that, I think the real problem here is how you view Ngata and how I view him. I don't think he's one of those can't miss guys. I think he's in the next mix. I can see you do view him that way. Your not alone. Several guys do. I've watched Ngata and while he can dominate, I've also seen him go away in games. Sometimes all game.

I never said Ngata was a can't miss player. I just said he's better then any LB in the draft not named Hawk.

 

[Barbarino]

3 LBer?

The Browns have Davis, Mcginest, Thompson, and Stewart(started for ALT 2 years ago).

Speegle and Mcmillan 2nd day pick last year.

 

[Rack]

Out of 7 starting NGs, at least 2 are first round picks (actually it might be more, I didn't research this. Just going by what I know) Hampton and Wilfork.


That's a higher percentage of 1st round NGs then 1st round 3-4 backers.


And none of that even matters. Again, it's about VALUE.

Should they take the BETTER NG that they NEED or the lesser OLB that they need? They need both. Why not take the better player?

Barbarino has informed me that Ted Washington was a first rounder too.

So that's almost half the starting 3-4 NGs in the NFL that were 1st rounders.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong.


3-4 teams:

Browns: 1 first round LB (McGinest).

Dolphins: None.

Patriots: None.

Steelers: 1 (James Farior) and they didn't draft him. Casey Hampton is their NG (1st round pick).

Chargers: 1 (merriman).

Cowboys: 1 (Ware).

Niners: None.


No 3-4 team in the NFL has more then 1 first round pick on their team, and 2 of those teams didn't actually draft that player.


So out of 28 starting 3-4 LBs, 4 are first round picks.


Out of 7 starting NGs, at least 2 are first round picks (actually it might be more, I didn't research this. Just going by what I know) Hampton and Wilfork.


That's a higher percentage of 1st round NGs then 1st round 3-4 backers.


And none of that even matters. Again, it's about VALUE.

Should they take the BETTER NG that they NEED or the lesser OLB that they need? They need both. Why not take the better player?

Dolphins have no LBs so they can't have any 1st LOL... Honestly, they don't have any 34 LBs in my opinion. They have an undersized guy who has heart but I think you know what I think about undersized LBs in a 34, or really, in any defensive scheme.

Can't argue with the Patriots but then again, who can draft like they can? In fact, the Patriots do make a practice of taking DTs high. They took Wilfork, Warran and Seymour all in the first round. There LBs, while not 1st round picks, are high picks. Katzenmoyer was a first round pick. Bruschi was a 3rd round pick. Johnson was a 2nd round pick. McGuinst was a 1st round pick although, he was a DE at USC. He was still a 1st round pick.

Pittsburgh, well, there current LBs are not high picks but they normally do take LBs high.

Kendrell Bell 2nd round. Joey Porter 3rd round. Steve Connely 3rd round. Jason Gildon 3rd round. Chad Brown 2nd round. Levon Kirkland 2nd round. Mike Vrabel in the 3rd. Huey Richards 1st round. That goes back a ways but you kind see what I'm getting at. On the other hand, the only DTs they've taken high are Casey Hampton 1st round, Kendrick Clancy in the 3rd and Joel Steed in the 3rd. I think that Hampton was out of the ordinary for what Pittsburgh normally does as opposed to the norm.


Chargers are pretty early into the 34 so I don't know if you can really go to school on what they've done just yet. Having said that, they took a LB first last year but they also drafted Castillo in the 1st last year and Olshansky in the 2nd the year before. Both are not playing DE but that's another story.

We took a LB 1st last year, we took Burnett in the 2nd and it looks as if we are tying to target another LB in the first this year. meanwhile, our DTs are UFAs or very low draft picks.

Niners are still at the clueless stage so what can you take from them. I look at the Old Falcons, the old Giants, the old Saints and look at those LBrs and where they were taken.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Pickett is a Titan now. Kennedy is a bust (I predicted that one) and glover is a 3 technique and old. They very well could take Ngata.

That's the point. They could take him but they could go in another direction as well. This whole discussion is about the DTs and where they might end up. I don't think there locked in stone anywhere is what I'm getting at.