What penalty for gaining a competitive advantage?

[blindzebra]

In sports when you wrong your opponent to gain a competitive advantage you pay by giving up a competitive advantage.

In football a penalty costs you yards, making you go farther or the other team gets to go shorter.

In basketball the other guy gets the ball or shoots for points unguarded.

In hockey you have to play shorthanded.

What competitive disadvantage did NE get for blatantly cheating to gain an advantage?

Now losing 750K isn't fun, but it does nothing to penalize them on the field.

Losing a first round pick does hurt, but how much? Now it would have a big impact on a talent starved team with only one first round pick, but NE isn't talent starved, nor was it their only first round pick. With their roster and another pick, that will likely be an earlier pick than their pick anyway, it has no impact on them on the field...NONE.

I'm sure Goodell's excuse would be it's unprecedented, and the ruling couldn't be too harsh, because it would need room to grow if teams do this sort of thing in the future...and just because the penalty in respect to NE isn't harsh enough to actually hurt them, it would be devastating to most teams.

Sorry Roger, that's lawyer-speak and the good thing about you coming into the job was you weren't a lawyer, so stop acting like one.

So what penalties would put them at a competitive disadvantage?

Hit their salary cap...make them go next season with 15 or 20% less cap.

Make them play this season with no electronic equipment...no wireless communication to the QB...no headsets to the booth, no photos on the sidelines. Knock them back to the stone age of football.

Or simply be consistent with what you had already done...suspend the guilty party. You had a precedent there. 5 games for a coach, one more game than a player for a similar offense. The higher standard you talked of in the Wade Wilson case.

Up till now you have cruised through the cases, handing down rulings that had people saying you were good for the game. The first time you had a big target in your sights that was a player you came on strong and most feel you got it right. The first time that big target was on the side that pays your salary you came up woefully short.

 

[jimmy40]

The jealousy of the Pats is amazing.

 

[conner01]

the fact they have another first round pick is illrelavant. the penalty has to be equal. you can't have a penalty for one team different from another just because one is good and the other is bad, or because one has an extra draft pick.a first round pick and 750k is the largest penalty ever handed out to my knwledge. the 49ers and bronco's where caught cheating on the salary cap, which i think is a much bigger deal and got alot less punishment

 

[blindzebra]

The jealousy of the Pats is amazing.

So wanting the punishment to fit the crime is jealousy?

You know what I love about you?

You really like to make these statements of huge generalizations, lumping everyone into this nice, neat little package...probably because it's easier than actually having to think.

 

[Big Dakota]

I'm in the catagory of people that feel exposing them as cheats is the biggest penalty. But i am glad Wade is speaking out and i think he did it in a respectful manner. Let's see how the commish responds.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This doesnt make sense. in essence what you are saying is that if this were the Browns who are a bad team then the punishment would be fitting but since the Pats are a good team that means they should be punished more.

That is like sying that a holding penalty should be only 5 yards of the team is losing or the winning team only gets one free throw.

Fact is that the Patriots are going to be without the services of the 25ish best player in the draft draft next year forever.

 

[5Stars]

This doesnt make sense. in essence what you are saying is that if this were the Browns who are a bad team then the punishment would be fitting but since the Pats are a good team that means they should be punished more.

That is like sying that a holding penalty should be only 5 yards of the team is losing or the winning team only gets one free throw.

Fact is that the Patriots are going to be without the services of the 25ish best player in the draft draft next year forever.

What pick of the 49'ers do the Pats have?

 

[blindzebra]

This doesnt make sense. in essence what you are saying is that if this were the Browns who are a bad team then the punishment would be fitting but since the Pats are a good team that means they should be punished more.

That is like sying that a holding penalty should be only 5 yards of the team is losing or the winning team only gets one free throw.

Fact is that the Patriots are going to be without the services of the 25ish best player in the draft draft next year forever.

No I'm saying that in every other case before him a suspension was part of the punishment...including 5 games and 1/3 his pay for Wilson for trying to get an erection for God's sake.

Losing the hood for 5 to 8 games would have a significant impact on their season...you know the season they got caught cheating.

By imposing a penalty that won't hurt them this year, and within the context of their situation won't hurt them long term either, Goodell has basically given them a pass.

I'm not saying they should be penalized more than a bad team, I'm saying that ANY TEAM doing something like this should be made to pay in the year they did it.

This thing should have come with a suspension.

 

[blindzebra]

What pick of the 49'ers do the Pats have?

Their first, which will likely be in the 15-20 range.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

In college football whenever it's deemed that a team gained an unfair advantage, all games that the unfair advantage existed in forever go into the record books as a forfeit/loss. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

It's usually for using an ineligible player and I believe that Oklahoma is dealing with this right now thanks to the Bomar situation.

This really does remind me of the NCAA though. They've seemed to have forgotten Reggie Bush because they don't want to touch the media darling that is USC.

 

[5Stars]

In college football whenever it's deemed that a team gained an unfair advantage, all games that the unfair advantage existed in forever go into the record books as a forfeit/loss. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

It's usually for using an ineligible player and I believe that Oklahoma is dealing with this right now thanks to the Bomar situation.

This really does remind me of the NCAA though. They've seemed to have forgotten Reggie Bush because they don't want to touch the media darling that is USC.

How would the NFL do it? Make it a tie game?

 

[LeonDixson]

The jealousy of the Pats is amazing.

That was a dumb comment!

Anybody who's sense of justice was affronted by the decision is motivated by jealousy?

 

[5Stars]

I'm in the catagory of people that feel exposing them as cheats is the biggest penalty. But i am glad Wade is speaking out and i think he did it in a respectful manner. Let's see how the commish responds.

When you start to get a bad rep...that is not good! Especially when it has been proven!

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No I'm saying that in every other case before him a suspension was part of the punishment...including 5 games and 1/3 his pay for Wilson for trying to get an erection for God's sake.

Losing the hood for 5 to 8 games would have a significant impact on their season...you know the season they got caught cheating.

By imposing a penalty that won't hurt them this year, and within the context of their situation won't hurt them long term either, Goodell has basically given them a pass.

I'm not saying they should be penalized more than a bad team, I'm saying that ANY TEAM doing something like this should be made to pay in the year they did it.

This thing should have come with a suspension.

The situations are a bit different. The Pats as an orgaization were doing this and ultimately its Kraft that is responsible for that. At least in Wades case you had a smoking gun and it wa known Wilson possessed the HGH.

Is there any clear cut evidence that Belichek ordered this and not some video coach or someone in the scouting department?

For example if this were to happen to us i would look at Jerry Jones or at Jeff Ireland before i would look at Phillips.

Im not defending the actions and I agree that someone should have had the hammer dropped on them but the reasoning behind the suspension is strange but a first round draft pick loss is HUGE.

 

[5Stars]

but a first round draft pick loss is HUGE.

Oh yeah? Try telling that to a RedStink fan...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh yeah? Try telling that to a RedStink fan...

Snyder is the poster child on how to not run a franchise. And they normally trdae away there 2nd through 6th round picks. It is still devastating to them.

 

[blindzebra]

The situations are a bit different. The Pats as an orgaization were doing this and ultimately its Kraft that is responsible for that. At least in Wades case you had a smoking gun and it wa known Wilson possessed the HGH.

Is there any clear cut evidence that Belichek ordered this and not some video coach or someone in the scouting department?

For example if this were to happen to us i would look at Jerry Jones or at Jeff Ireland before i would look at Phillips.

Im not defending the actions and I agree that someone should have had the hammer dropped on them but the reasoning behind the suspension is strange but a first round draft pick loss is HUGE.

Gee I don't know maybe Belichick saying I take full responsibility for this...I misinterpreted the rule.

Does that count?

 

[Nors]

Phillips did that last week and Goodel ripped away one of our #1's People would be crying bloody murder.

 

[blindzebra]

Phillips did that last week and Goodel ripped away one of our #1's People would be crying bloody murder.

If it came out that we were cheating, and possibly had been doing it for years, perhaps even giving us an advantage in all those 3 point SB wins...and all we got was a 750K fine and we lost what will be our late first pick, but we had no penalties this year and we get to keep Cleveland's pick, I'd be doing freaking backflips of joy!

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Gee I don't know maybe Belichick saying I take full responsibility for this...I misinterpreted the rule.

Does that count?

him accepting responsibility is one thing but again at the same time it was an institutional problem not a bill belichek problem.

that more of a 'the buck stops here' then true culpability.