CFZ What the penalty numbers say about Big Mac and the Cowboys

[Bobhaze]

Players make mistakes, dumb players make dumb mistakes. Bill Parcells

And undisciplined dumb players make the same mistakes over and over.

 

[Diehardblues]

The McCarthy era could become the greatest waste of talent in Cowboys history.

Penalties arent the only problem. I can’t stand how we seem to always go for it on 4th down.

Both the TD which was reversed and also 4th and 8 we could have settled for a FG in both possessions . Then only need a FG on last possession.

MM brings a brash arrogant style that hurts us in critical situations and key games down the stretch.

 

[Diehardblues]

And undisciplined dumb players make the same mistakes over and over.

Totally undisciplined. And his offense has been a step back on the most part.

He said our defense would be our strength . But it’s not enough to carry us against the better opponents .

Mike better get it together or he’s going to waste more talent than Garrett.

 

[TheCoolFan]

That's why I can tell this team is never mentally tough enough to go far in the playoffs. There is absolutely a way for coaches to fix this...it's just a matter of emphasizing it and creating a culture of accountability. Instead, they probably view these flags as just "one-offs" that happen every now and then (when it seems like they happen EVERY road game).

The worst penalty is when a DL lines up in the neutral zone. Like how dumb do you have to be to not pay attention to where you are lining up and make sure you're behind the football? It's basic knowledge that you learn in pee-wee yet we constantly see it happen on this team.

 

[Diehardblues]

We could start offensively with a greatest sense of urgency. We seem to always come down to last second to snap the ball with Dak making too many calls at LOS.

Get up there and snap the frikin ball. That would minimize these pre snap penalties .

 

[Bobhaze]

The McCarthy era could become the greatest waste of talent in Cowboys history.

Penalties arent the only problem. I can’t stand how we seem to always go for it on 4th down.

Both the TD which was reversed and also 4th and 8 we could have settled for a FG in both possessions . Then only need a FG on last possession.

MM brings a brash arrogant style that hurts us in critical situations and key games down the stretch.

IMO Big Mac overall has done a good job with back to back 12 win seasons, a restored home field advantage, and the best defense we‘ve seen in a long time. BUT….

The real question to me isn’t about McCarthy. It’s about the culture. We’ve had 6 different HCs, 8 different OCs, 8 different DCs and 27 drafts since our last SB appearance. And one GM in charge of it all. And we continue to see many of the same problems regardless of coaches, QBs and overall talent. A lack of discipline.

 

[Diehardblues]

IMO Big Mac overall has done a good job with back to back 12 win seasons, a restored home field advantage, and the best defense we‘ve seen in a long time. BUT….

The real question to me isn’t about McCarthy. It’s about the culture. We’ve had 6 different HCs, 8 different OCs, 8 different DCs and 27 drafts since our last SB appearance. And one GM in charge of it all. And we continue to see many of the same problems regardless of coaches, QBs and overall talent. A lack of discipline.

McCarthy is over rated and why no one was knocking on his door and hugged hiney to take this job.

He’s on the clock with this talent level. I’m not sure with our ownership there’s a better answer out there who’d come here but that doesn’t mean we have to praise MM.

I thought we needed an experienced and proven success HC but ultimately the results haven’t been much better . Especially with what’s considered our best defense and most talented team.

Our offense is our greatest evidence that has his stamp on it as it’s regressed. Most give DQ credit for defense.

 

[JohnsKey19]

During the off season didn't we hear how this was going to be addressed because they knew it was a problem?

FAIL.

Agree. It's been 3 seasons running now.

 

[Diehardblues]

IMO Big Mac overall has done a good job with back to back 12 win seasons, a restored home field advantage, and the best defense we‘ve seen in a long time. BUT….

The real question to me isn’t about McCarthy. It’s about the culture. We’ve had 6 different HCs, 8 different OCs, 8 different DCs and 27 drafts since our last SB appearance. And one GM in charge of it all. And we continue to see many of the same problems regardless of coaches, QBs and overall talent. A lack of discipline.

Then it falls back more on what I’ve said this era that it doesn’t matter what HC we have .

Many thought MM was going to be our savior. But it’s beginning to look like more of the same wrapped a little differently .

That said there are some things I like Mike has done. I don’t like his game decisions though. It’s too brash for our team. We go for it on 4th down in too many situations .

Most NFL games are close . Have to take points when have the opportunity. We were moving the ball. Was not worried we’d get back down there again.

 

[Diehardblues]

Agree. It's been 3 seasons running now.

I doubt Jethro will fire him after 3 straight playoff seasons . I see another OC next year. Maybe other changes .

This is a relative and interesting team Jethro can hype until the cows come home .

But doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere. At least not where we want to go. And it looks like some other teams in conference are getting better like Detroit as we will struggle to get 5th seed again.

 

[Bobhaze]

I doubt Jethro will fire him after 3 straight playoff seasons . I see another OC next year. Maybe other changes .

This is a relative and interesting team Jethro can hype until the cows come home .

But doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere. At least not where we want to go. And it looks like some other teams in conference are getting better like Detroit as we will struggle to get 5th seed again.

The next 3-4 games will go a long way to setting up the rest of the season. Three of the next 4 games are at home as they host the giants, commander and Seahawks with a trip to hapless Carolina on the road sandwiched between. All NFL opponents are capable of beating anyone but we should win those.

The Cowboys could be 9-3 going into the brutal month of December where we have the eagles, bills, dolphins and lions in consecutive weeks.

 

[Diehardblues]

The next 3-4 games will go a long way to setting up the rest of the season. Three of the next 4 games are at home as they host the giants, commander and Seahawks with a trip to hapless Carolina on the road sandwiched between. All NFL opponents are capable of beating anyone but we should win those.

The Cowboys could be 9-3 going into the brutal month of December where we have the eagles, bills, dolphins and lions in consecutive weeks.

Yep

We are on pace to win 10 or 11 games which is where I had us going into season. We are right where I thought we’d be.

That last 5 game stretch we could lose 3 or 4 easily.

 

[JustChip]

The offsides penalties have been unacceptable this year. There have been times where defensive linemen are lined up in the neutral zone multiple times in a single drive. That should NEVER happen. In fact, I’ve never even seen it happen more than to this years team.

It’s difficult to know what to attribute penalties to, but surely the head coach shoulders some of the blame.

I specifically started watching Hankins after the call against him and, honestly, he could’ve been called 3 or 4 more times. Odd that the officials called just 1 and begs the question, why did they call it that one time.

 

[Cowboys5217]

curiously...has anyone ever taken a look at highly penalized cowboys players to see if when they move to another team their issues drop? Either due to what is being stated here culturally or what is being stated in the other threads with ref bias?

Someone did do that once. Might have been PercyHoward, but I can't recall, and it did show a drop in calls against.

 

[BleedSilverandBlue]

I specifically started watching Hankins after the call against him and, honestly, he could’ve been called 3 or 4 more times. Odd that the officials called just 1 and begs the question, why did they call it that one time.

Honestly the subjectivity of NFL officiating is maddening. This type of call it once in a key situation only to ignore it other times is why people think games are fixed.

 

[Beaker42]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

Half the penalties we’re being called for aren’t penalties.

 

[plasticman]

These penalties and their types suggest a lack of discipline.

I believe this lack of discipline is the result of the reduced authority of the Head Coach and the ability of players to have coaching decisions overturned by Jerry Jones.

Players aren't dumb, they know who really runs the football team. McCarthy has zero authority to name starters, cut players, or even suspend them without the approval of Jerry Jones.

Every head Cowboys Head Coach since Jimmy Johnson have been stripped of many typical roles of NFL Head Coaches and that makes the Cowboys management one of the most dysfunctional organizations in all of professional team sports.

 

[JustChip]

Honestly the subjectivity of NFL officiating is maddening. This type of call it once in a key situation only to ignore it other times is why people think games are fixed.

I know. Some differences are simply due to the differences between officials. If the play that resulted with the PI call against Gilmore occurs on the other side, the official on that side may not make the call. That inconsistency shouldn’t happen, but it’s human nature. There’s only 1 official MLB strike zone, but every MLB ump has his own strike zone. It’s why calls/non-calls should be open to coach challenge.

 

[JustChip]

We could start offensively with a greatest sense of urgency. We seem to always come down to last second to snap the ball with Dak making too many calls at LOS.

Get up there and snap the frikin ball. That would minimize these pre snap penalties .

Romo used to do that and it drove me bat guano crazy!

 

[Kwyn]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

Thanks @Bobhaze

I don’t always agree but you do bring some sanity to the conversation!