CFZ What the penalty numbers say about Big Mac and the Cowboys

[Kwyn]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

@Bobhaze

Any additional info on those presnap penalties for offense vs defense?

Our defense is so aggressive that it *feels* like we get more encroachment, defensive offsides and lined up in the neutral zone than we do on false starts, illegal motion and illegal formation.

 

[Kwyn]

One word: Culture.

This is just my opinion obviously but I don’t think the coaches here in Big D are given free rein to address players fully for mistakes.

Examples of what I mean:

• In the 2021 WC round game loss against the niners, DE Randy Gregory was flagged multiple times for lining up offsides. It was insane. It was a contract year for RG and JJ wanted to resign him. Luckily the broncos outbid us and ended up cutting RG after one year of his contract.
• In 2017 when Zeke clearly loafed after an interception in the Denver game, the coaches wanted to punish Zeke for a lack of effort for loafing. Jerry was shown on the TV show “All or Nothing” at a coaches meeting overruling the coaches because “Zeke has been through too much”. Should have just issued a passifier!
• In 2015 rogue DE Greg Hardy threw a temper tantrum on the sidelines and knocked a clipboard out of a coaches hands. Garrett wanted to discipline him butJerry publicly announced there would be no punishment and defended Hardy for his “passion”. Jerry undermined his HC and excused the player for his behavior.
• In 2014 wc round playoff game, Dez Bryant came onto the field to argue a PI call against the Cowboys that was later picked up. Dez should have been flagged for running on to the field. We caught a break there but it could have cost us the game. Jerry again defended Dez for his “passion”.

This list could go on. Again just my opinion but this team has lacked discipline for years and it shows in the penalty numbers.

Do you really think that accountability for penalties is being analyzed by anyone other than the coaching staff?

The implication is that the front office is smothering the coaching staffs ability to coach against penalties.

I find it hard to believe that the fro is reviewing game film and telling McCarthy “don’t talk to Kearse and Tyler about their penalties. We like them.”

 

[Bobhaze]

@Bobhaze

Any additional info on those presnap penalties for offense vs defense?

Our defense is so aggressive that it *feels* like we get more encroachment, defensive offsides and lined up in the neutral zone than we do on false starts, illegal motion and illegal formation.

So far this year, the cowboys have 11 offsides/neutral zone infractions and 10 false starts. I think there’s also been 1-2 delay of games.
Heres the link for you to look it up: https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

 

[plymkr]

During the off season didn't we hear how this was going to be addressed because they knew it was a problem?

FAIL.

Big time fail

 

[plymkr]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

During the Garrett years we weren’t as talented as the McCarthy years. During the McCarthy years we are not as disciplined as the Garrett years. I long to be able to combine talent and discipline.

 

[plymkr]

Excellent post. Culture has a lot to do with winning, especially against the better teams.

IMO the Cowboys have enough talent to at least win a couple of playoff games in this season, maybe more. But they have shown for years they have a problem with a lack of focus, discipline and attention to detail and those are all critical in close games against equal or better opponents in the playoffs.

Holding on offense and defense, PI, and others like that are almost always judgement calls that could go either way. But the most inexcusable penalties are pre-snap lining up off-sides, delay of game, and false starts - all examples of a lack of focus and attention to detail. Like all NFL teams, some of the penalty calls we’ve had against us are questionable. But the pre-snap stuff is just stupid.

The culture of this franchise is burdened by a lack of accountability. Because when the people at the top of an organization are not held accountable for a lack of results, it means everyone else all the way down the chain is unaccountable. That is the heart of this team’s culture.

Yep. Don’t get me going on the culture of the team. I can write a novel on it right now. I’ll spare everyone the long book I can write but to summarize with a better culture I feel we have the talent to win it all this year (and last year).

 

[Sarge]

MM is a joke. Been saying that since the day he was hired. Aaron Rodgers wasn’t wrong.

 

[75boyz]

To gloss over this huge coaching/discipline problem does not improve this team..
Empty promises by this coach to fix this problem remain that.

Empty.

It's been the 2nd most impactful deficiency during his coaching tenure.
Behind only his cluelessness in establishing an effective run game thus far.

Clock management is a not so distant third.

Lack of attention to detail is the right description.
And it separates the winning coaches from the losing coaches in the NFL.
Especially in the playoffs.

So yeah, I'm not a big fan.

 

[75boyz]

During the off season didn't we hear how this was going to be addressed because they knew it was a problem?

FAIL.

And that other...
"Run the damn ball and rest the defense?"

Strike 2.

 

[eromeopolk]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

It says that Jerry Jones is your Defacto Head Coach. Bill Parcells famous qoute "I don't coach penalties". Undoubtedly Jerry Dumbo GM Jones and the Big Blue M&M does.

 

[nhcowboysfan]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

Although the penalties stats are shocking enough, Bob, what stood out to me was the 5 neutral zone infractions against the 49ers in 2021 playoff game. I don't remember that, but that is unbelievable. A team shouldn't have that many in a season.

 

[Runwildboys]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

Do these stats include penalties that were declined? If not, then maybe it shows that the teams with fewer penalties gave up more big plays on those that would otherwise have been penalties.

 

[Bobhaze]

Do these stats include penalties that were declined? If not, then maybe it shows that the teams with fewer penalties gave up more big plays on those that would otherwise have been penalties.

The penalty numbers the league counts are accepted penalties only. Doesn’t count penalties called that we’re declined by the opponent.

 

[CCBoy]

When you take the raw emotion out of the disappointment of the eagles loss, there are some interesting penalty numbers and patterns to discuss. This post is not intended to discuss the refs but to look at what kind of penalty patterns the Cowboys seem to be exhibiting in the Mike McCarthy era.

First of all, after 8 games the Cowboys are tied with the chiefs, bears, bills, and packers for the most penalties in the NFL with 60. The Cowboys are on pace this year to have over 120 penalties, averaging almost 8 penalties per game. I was never a Jason Garrett fan…ever…but Interestingly, under Garrett, the Cowboys never approached anything close to 120 penalties in a season.

What frustrates me the most about the Cowboys and penalties is their rash of pre-snap penalties. Over 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap. In fact, the Cowboys lead the league in pre-snap penalties.

Here are some facts about our penalty patterns:

• The Cowboys lead the league with a whopping 11 offsides penalties, 5 more than the next team.
• We‘ve had 10 false starts so far.
• In 2021, the Cowboys led the league in penalties and in the one playoff game we had that year against the niners, we had 14 penalties, and 6 were pre-snap penalties, including…wait for it…5 neutral zone infractions.
• In 2022, the Cowboys finished in the top 5 in penalties.
• In 2023, the Cowboys are again leading the league in penalties.
• Again, not a Garrett fan at all, but in his era, the Cowboys usually finished between 15th and 24th in penalties.

I like a lot about what Mike McCarthy has brought to the Cowboys. We have an 11 game home winning streak, better responses to playing through injuries, and have had back to back 12 win seasons. But Mac MUST start addressing these penalty patterns…especially pre-snap penalties like false starts and lining up offsides.

If 1/3 of our penalties are pre-snap, with more attention in practice to addressing those problems we should get some improvement. Attention to detail matters regarding penalties!
Here’s the link to the info I used for this:
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

I'm in full support of this OP. Discipline fully is reflective of leadership, or the lack of accountability. That doesn't rest upon Jerry, but the coaching staff. Success overcomes all defects. The draw back is that in a momentum sport, all of the unnecessary ones don't always leave recoverable situations. Agreed.

 

[CCBoy]

Great question.
Here are the most penalized current Cowboys players so far this year:

• Tie for most penalties between Tyler Smith and Jayron Kearse, both with 7 each.
• Tyler’s penalties: 4 off holding, 2 false starts, and 1 unnecessary roughness.
• Kearse‘s penalties are 2 unnecessary roughness, 2 def holding, 1 offsides, 1 illegal contact and 1 taunting

Interesting that Tyler Smith and Jayron Kearse have 14 of the team’s 60 penalties; that’s nearly 1/4 of the team’s total penalties.

If interested in more player individual penalty numbers, here’s a great link:
https://www.nflpenalties.com/all-players.php?view=total&year=2023

That is the Head Coach's territory to get 'attention.'

 

[Chuck 54]

Get rid of Dak, the penalties on both sides will disappear.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. I’m surprised it hadn’t already been proposed.