CFZ What to do when you’re stuck with two things you don’t want

[Bobhaze]

Whether any of us like it or not, we are stuck with two things most of us are very tired of:

1. Jerry Jones as GM (and his cheap son)
2. Dak Prescott

There are a hundred threads about how and why Dak needs to go. A million more about nearly three decades of Jerry failures and repeated stupid mistakes. Yada, yada, yada. I’m as frustrated as anyone. But folks they’re both going to be back next year. Dak’s here at least two more seasons. Jerry will be the face of this organization until he takes a dirt nap.

So what could be done if we’re stuck with both? Essentially it’s the old idea about what to do when you don’t have enough apples to go around. You make applesauce.

The two ideas I believe this team desperately need are centered around finding new voices in both the front office and in the ear of Dak Prescott.

IDEA #1

• HIRE A NEW FRONT OFFICE ADVISOR (An Assistant GM) I know Jerry will never step aside, but what if he hired an advisor? A shadow GM. A guy who could whisper to Jerry and Stephen a modern blueprint for this organization to follow to build a winner.
  • JJ and SJ simply play fantasy football. They don’t get it. The only thing separating us from disaster is Will McClay. He is a great talent evaluator but he doesn’t get to sign FAs. Maybe Will McClay could be that guy who modernizes this FO to become more aggressive In FA. Or someone else.
  • BOTTOM LINE: We need some new talent and a voice in the front office. WE LOST THE SF GAME THIS PAST OFFSEASON. The way we do things DOES NOT WORK. WE NEED NEW DIRECTION.

IDEA #2

• HIRE A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR/QBs COACH: Hire a new OC. Someone who can coach Dak back to who he really is. A good but not great QB who is definitely not transcendent. He will never ever be a gunslinger who carries a team. He needs help. And good coaching. Kellen Moore ain’t that guy.
  • I believe Dak IS someone you can win multiple playoff games with, but in the mold of someone like Mark Rypien, Phil Simms or Jim Plunkett. Good enough but not transcendent. Dak must be surrounded by a good OL and a strong running game that keeps the defense honest. And get back to being a guy he was early in his career- careful with the ball.
  • Also, Dak has forgotten who he really is as a QB. He stopped being that careful QB he was when he came into the league and started believing he was a gunslinger, which he clearly is not. In his rookie year, Dak only threw 4 picks in 16 games.
  • In this current era of pro football where the passing game has become the coin of the realm, many of our fans have been lulled into thinking only a top shelf gunslinger, who can carry a team on his arm is capable of winning SBs. But guys like that- Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers…maybe a couple more…are really one in a million. Dak clearly is not one of those guys.
  • BOTTOM LINE: We need a new offense and OC. And more offensive weapons besides Pollard and Lamb.

ADDITIONAL IDEA:

• Draft a QB every other year to always have a young guy not just as a backup but someone who could possibly be the next starter.
  • Look at what SF did this year-drafting Brock Purdy when they already had Trey Lance as their future and Jimmy G as insurance. It was a wise move we never make.

Finally- we need to have an aggressive off-season. It’s great to have good drafts but in today’s NFL, it‘s not enough. If we go into this off-season with the same approach we’ve had the last several years, don’t expect different results.

 

[Streifenkarl]

It's easy. Take Dak aside and tell him: "Your time is over around here. But due to my own mistake of agreeing to a no trade clause we're stuck with each other for two more years.

But we're both professionals. We of course will continue to try to keep the team around you as good as possible. So you play your hearts out the next two seasons for a great contract elsewhere. At the same time we will draft QBs high during the next two off seasons and develop whoever we get.

Your buddy Zeke is gone though, sorry."

 

[75boyz]

While agreeing with a vast majority of your posts I think the main problem begins and ends with "onfield decision making in real time" by this quarterback.

No amount of different coaching or supporting cast improvement can fix his inability to make better decisions at this point.

Being stuck with him is a harsh reality but extreme measures such as open competition, cut, trade or other options are too cost controlled for this front office to absorb. Much less the public perception that would be admitting his contract was a mistake, which Jerry most likely would never do.

I am all in with you on whatever other alterations need to be made to fix front office management issues. Maybe officially naming an assistant GM in title could start some visible accountability process of having someone to blame instead of just lateralling the free agent, cap management, coaching and personnel control policies to his son, all of which are so desperately in need of change.

jmo

 

[big dog cowboy]

What to do when you’re stuck with two things you don’t want​

 

[fivetwos]

A new voice at OC and certainly a new offense is worth trying at this point.

Not sure I agree on yet another opinion in the FO. Part of the problem is opinion by committee, then the two idiots decide whose they like best, and probably why we are all over the place with many things.

One person wants to do one thing, another wants to do something else, then the least qualified of all sort it out.

If they aren’t going to go to a more conventional way of doing things, there’s no point in bothering at all.

 

[Cowboys5217]

 

[Bobhaze]

While agreeing with a vast majority of your posts I think the main problem begins and ends with "onfield decision making in real time" by this quarterback.

No amount of different coaching or supporting cast improvement can fix his inability to make better decisions at this point.

Being stuck with him is a harsh reality but extreme measures such as open competition, cut, trade or other options are too cost controlled for this front office to absorb. Much less the public perception that would be admitting his contract was a mistake, which Jerry most likely would never do.

I am all in with you on whatever other alterations need to be made to fix front office management issues. Maybe officially naming an assistant GM in title could start some visible accountability process of having someone to blame instead of just lateralling the free agent, cap management, coaching and personnel control policies to his son, all of which are so desperately in need of change.

jmo

I understand those points. But the harsh reality is Dak cannot realistically be traded with his contract as it is. Cutting him would cripple the team’s ability to put together a competitive roster because of the huge cap hit and dead money.

Which is why IMO those “cut or trade” ideas just aren’t going to happen. And why I believe the only realistic option is to get a new OC who can revamp Dak back into a QB that can drive this bus and take care of the ball. Which means he needs more weapons around him. Don’t get me wrong- Dak deserves all the criticism he’s getting. But he ain’t going anywhere.

Besides- Brock Purdy wasn’t all World last Sunday but he had way more weapons to work with and took care of the ball. We had much fewer weapons and a QB who threw the ball around like a fraternity flag football game QB.

We have to find a new OC that can maximize what Dak is. Gunslinger he isn’t. Effective Bus driver he can be.

 

[Blackrain]

Whether any of us like it or not, we are stuck with two things most of us are very tired of:

1. Jerry Jones as GM (and his cheap son)
2. Dak Prescott

There are a hundred threads about how and why Dak needs to go. A million more about nearly three decades of Jerry failures and repeated stupid mistakes. Yada, yada, yada. I’m as frustrated as anyone. But folks they’re both going to be back next year. Dak’s here at least two more seasons. Jerry will be the face of this organization until he takes a dirt nap.

So what could be done if we’re stuck with both? Essentially it’s the old idea about what to do when you don’t have enough apples to go around. You make applesauce.

The two ideas I believe this team desperately need are centered around finding new voices in both the front office and in the ear of Dak Prescott.

IDEA #1

• HIRE A NEW FRONT OFFICE ADVISOR (An Assistant GM) I know Jerry will never step aside, but what if he hired an advisor? A shadow GM. A guy who could whisper to Jerry and Stephen a modern blueprint for this organization to follow to build a winner.
  • JJ and SJ simply play fantasy football. They don’t get it. The only thing separating us from disaster is Will McClay. He is a great talent evaluator but he doesn’t get to sign FAs. Maybe Will McClay could be that guy who modernizes this FO to become more aggressive In FA. Or someone else.
  • BOTTOM LINE: We need some new talent and a voice in the front office. WE LOST THE SF GAME THIS PAST OFFSEASON. The way we do things DOES NOT WORK. WE NEED NEW DIRECTION.

IDEA #2

• HIRE A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR/QBs COACH: Hire a new OC. Someone who can coach Dak back to who he really is. A good but not great QB who is definitely not transcendent. He will never ever be a gunslinger who carries a team. He needs help. And good coaching. Kellen Moore ain’t that guy.
  • I believe Dak IS someone you can win multiple playoff games with, but in the mold of someone like Mark Rypien, Phil Simms or Jim Plunkett. Good enough but not transcendent. Dak must be surrounded by a good OL and a strong running game that keeps the defense honest. And get back to being a guy he was early in his career- careful with the ball.
  • Also, Dak has forgotten who he really is as a QB. He stopped being that careful QB he was when he came into the league and started believing he was a gunslinger, which he clearly is not. In his rookie year, Dak only threw 4 picks in 16 games.
  • In this current era of pro football where the passing game has become the coin of the realm, many of our fans have been lulled into thinking only a top shelf gunslinger, who can carry a team on his arm is capable of winning SBs. But guys like that- Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers…maybe a couple more…are really one in a million. Dak clearly is not one of those guys.
  • BOTTOM LINE: We need a new offense and OC. And more offensive weapons besides Pollard and Lamb.

ADDITIONAL IDEA:

• Draft a QB every other year to always have a young guy not just as a backup but someone who could possibly be the next starter.
  • Look at what SF did this year-drafting Brock Purdy when they already had Trey Lance as their future and Jimmy G as insurance. It was a wise move we never make.

Finally- we need to have an aggressive off-season. It’s great to have good drafts but in today’s NFL, it‘s not enough. If we go into this off-season with the same approach we’ve had the last several years, don’t expect different results.

I have just lowered my expectations to making the playoffs and it seems to work real good for me.

I'm always hopeful for more but playoffs seems to be a reasonable expectation from this franchise

 

[Streifenkarl]

Besides- Brock Purdy wasn’t all World last Sunday but he had way more weapons to work with and took care of the ball. We had much fewer weapons and a QB who threw the ball around like a fraternity flag football game QB.

Doesn't this remind you of something? The exact same thing happened with Cooper Rush in every game he played. Due to his weak arm he'll never be a starter, but KM and MM were forced to change their game to a more "keep the ball as long as possible, no risky things" kind of approach. And it worked, even against very good opponents.

Now I'm not saying we would have gone further with Rush, I guess we'd have managed less wins. But in the end the strategy was good and caused less mistakes.

I don't know why they give up on that with Dak. So maybe it is him after all? Taking over and making the decisions nobody wants? Winning some high scoring games but losing when it really matters? Exploiting the little kids on the school yard (and sometimes the big ones with a broken arm), but can't handle a true contender in his prime.

So yes I'm with you, he needs a stronger OC who shuts him the F up and makes him stick to the game plan. But in the end none of that matters, as he'll never win an important game against the odds. He wins games that Cooper Rush or any QB would have also won, but with 10 points more on the scoreboard. Whenever it gets dirty, Dak isn't able to wash off the dust.

 

[75boyz]

Although entirely out of character I admit, and you have lauded their GMs for doing it, past precedent like the handling of Wentz and Goff situations come to mind.
Again, I'm not saying our front office possess the forward thinking and aggressive mindset to accomplish this, but to illustrate it is not an impossibility.
Well, with this front office, it may be but again, the other two 2016 QBs drafted in the first round were moved on from.

Personally, I think Moore would look better with a less limited QB and maximizes what Dak is capable of doing. Moore called a more conservative offense with Rush. I thought the reason they did not stick with it with Dak was because defensive injuries and declined defensive performance required more scoring. I thought if Dak could have played like Rush with the first half of the season's dee and the supporting run game, then there was hope. With Dak, you hafta have both a dominant run game AND dominant dee. The dee redeemed themselves in the playoffs. The run game not so much. But it still shouldn't take that much support for Dak to be better than he is imo.

Additionally, I believe changing Dak to anything more complex of an offensive scheme is a recipe for worst disaster. A disaster much worse than his current ceiling of Wild Card round.

Just my opinion Bob,
I just don't like staying status quo at QB for 2 more years no matter the drastic cap implications involved in moving on. But I also understand that's precisely what is going to happen.
Ultimately, blaming Moore or replacing him doesn't fix the root problem of sticking with the same QB, which is basically giving up in my eyes.

But thats where we're at. QB purgatory.

 

[CouchCoach]

I do have some advice on that #1, stop listening to or watching him, has worked for me for years now or I would be gone. I had to avoid the self-appointed face and voice of the team.

On #2, something positive did happen, Prescott took ownership of the problem, 17 picks in 14 games is unacceptable unless he’s going to approach Mahomes TD total.

Now, whether that problem gets resolved or even can be is another issue.

I believe he is a natural ball protector and that is how he learned to keep his jobs in high school and college and in his rookie season. Now, I believe he is being asked to be a risk taker to validate his contract.

I have doubts Prescott can become what management wants him to be, a gunslinger like the hot dog QB’s.

I do have little doubt that unless they get better offensive coaching and better skill positions around him, this isn’t going to change.

 

[cowboyec]

since i'm not the owner and have no say in it...i'm gonna continue to root like hell for my team.
as a fan...thats all i can do.
jerry ain't leavin'.
and dak ain't either...not for 2 more yrs any way.

what they SHOULD do...should've happened decades ago.
jerry should've hired his tex schramm and step aside.
as for dak....they should've been drafting QBs behind him to create depth and competition.

 

[Bobhaze]

Doesn't this remind you of something? The exact same thing happened with Cooper Rush in every game he played. Due to his weak arm he'll never be a starter, but KM and MM were forced to change their game to a more "keep the ball as long as possible, no risky things" kind of approach. And it worked, even against very good opponents.

Now I'm not saying we would have gone further with Rush, I guess we'd have managed less wins. But in the end the strategy was good and caused less mistakes.

I don't know why they give up on that with Dak. So maybe it is him after all? Taking over and making the decisions nobody wants? Winning some high scoring games but losing when it really matters? Exploiting the little kids on the school yard (and sometimes the big ones with a broken arm), but can't handle a true contender in his prime.

So yes I'm with you, he needs a stronger OC who shuts him the F up and makes him stick to the game plan. But in the end none of that matters, as he'll never win an important game against the odds. He wins games that Cooper Rush or any QB would have also won, but with 10 points more on the scoreboard. Whenever it gets dirty, Dak isn't able to wash off the dust.

Good points. And I believe (don’t have proof) that Kellen Moore has led Dak to believe he can be a gunslinger instead of keeping him in his lane.

Honestly, when Dak hit the league, he had one of the best INT to TD ratios. His rookie year he only threw 4 picks In 16 games. He was careful. Now he throws the ball around like he thinks he’s Brett Favre. He needs someone to repair his mental head space about what works for him. Kellen Moore needs to go.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Doesn't this remind you of something? The exact same thing happened with Cooper Rush in every game he played. Due to his weak arm he'll never be a starter, but KM and MM were forced to change their game to a more "keep the ball as long as possible, no risky things" kind of approach. And it worked, even against very good opponents.

Now I'm not saying we would have gone further with Rush, I guess we'd have managed less wins. But in the end the strategy was good and caused less mistakes.

I don't know why they give up on that with Dak. So maybe it is him after all? Taking over and making the decisions nobody wants? Winning some high scoring games but losing when it really matters? Exploiting the little kids on the school yard (and sometimes the big ones with a broken arm), but can't handle a true contender in his prime.

So yes I'm with you, he needs a stronger OC who shuts him the F up and makes him stick to the game plan. But in the end none of that matters, as he'll never win an important game against the odds. He wins games that Cooper Rush or any QB would have also won, but with 10 points more on the scoreboard. Whenever it gets dirty, Dak isn't able to wash off the dust.

Week 16 against the league's best team...

Down by 10 early in the game, then once again later in the game...

This game got dirty, and Dak was able to wash off the dust...

 

[Bobhaze]

I do have some advice on that #1, stop listening to or watching him, has worked for me for years now or I would be gone. I had to avoid the self-appointed face and voice of the team.

On #2, something positive did happen, Prescott took ownership of the problem, 17 picks in 14 games is unacceptable unless he’s going to approach Mahomes TD total.

Now, whether that problem gets resolved or even can be is another issue.

I believe he is a natural ball protector and that is how he learned to keep his jobs in high school and college and in his rookie season. Now, I believe he is being asked to be a risk taker to validate his contract.

I have doubts Prescott can become what management wants him to be, a gunslinger like the hot dog QB’s.

I do have little doubt that unless they get better offensive coaching and better skill positions around him, this isn’t going to change.

All NFL QBs have to know exactly what they are…and are not. Dak is not, nor ever will be an effective gunslinger like a Mahomes. Hardly anyone is. Too many NFL fans nowadays think the only good NFL QBs are gunslingers but that’s only because they never remember guys that have limitations but can be effective within certain limitations.

Many playoff games have been won with QBs that did not have to carry the team on their shoulders. But those QBs must have more weapons and a good running game. This FO has foolishly (surprise!) bought into exactly what you said coach- “Dak is a gunslinger because we pay him that way”. He is not. Until they realize what he is and act accordingly, we may not see much different.

 

[Mr_437]

Good thread once again @Bobhaze .
1. Jerry n Son are too stubborn to find help outside of Will McClay, although I see your point lack proper use of FA and cap manipulation is hurt the team.
2. John Kitna was kiting Dak and McCarthy *** up by not keeping him. Trash move especially if he was going to be a hands off coach.

 

[CATCH17]

While agreeing with a vast majority of your posts I think the main problem begins and ends with "onfield decision making in real time" by this quarterback.

No amount of different coaching or supporting cast improvement can fix his inability to make better decisions at this point.

Being stuck with him is a harsh reality but extreme measures such as open competition, cut, trade or other options are too cost controlled for this front office to absorb. Much less the public perception that would be admitting his contract was a mistake, which Jerry most likely would never do.

I am all in with you on whatever other alterations need to be made to fix front office management issues. Maybe officially naming an assistant GM in title could start some visible accountability process of having someone to blame instead of just lateralling the free agent, cap management, coaching and personnel control policies to his son, all of which are so desperately in need of change.

jmo

With Dak it’s always been his indecisiveness in big moments that cost him.

When he starts having to think things can get bad.

I still can not believe that first pick. Elliot is in an acre of space and he throws it to the corner. ‍♂️

 

[shabazz]

@Bobhaze

I understand your points and they are well taken, but I doubt that Jerry will take on an advisor as you suggested because he’d rather go down the tubes with him still doing it “ his way “, rather than admit defeat and have someone else get the credit……at his age , he’s set in his ways and unwavering.

 

[CATCH17]

All NFL QBs have to know exactly what they are…and are not. Dak is not, nor ever will be an effective gunslinger like a Mahomes. Hardly anyone is. Too many NFL fans nowadays think the only good NFL QBs are gunslingers but that’s only because they never remember guys that have limitations but can be effective within certain limitations.

Many playoff games have been won with QBs that did not have to carry the team on their shoulders. But those QBs must have more weapons and a good running game. This FO has foolishly (surprise!) bought into exactly what you said coach- “Dak is a gunslinger because we pay him that way”. He is not. Until they realize what he is and act accordingly, we may not see much different.

It all goes back to what I said and time has proven me right.. You don’t pay guys like Dak like they are an elite QB and expect to win anything.

The Rookie QB contract is always gonna be better then paying a guy like Dak if you are good at team building.

Say what you want about this organization but they can team build.

The problem is the country club element kicks in and they over spend on their own talent and you end up paying Zeke 14 million a year and Dak 40 lol.

 

[G2]

There are 3, maybe 4 truly elite QBs in the NFL. And, even they are not "carrying their team." It's not real. You need weapons around every QB. This is just a fact. Who would expect any QB still in the playoffs to "carry the team" with one no. 1 WR and a bunch of below par jags? Or, without any running game to speak of? The revolving door O line was awful in pressure situations, just bad. Dak isn't good enough to overcome that, it's not reasonable.

Jerry Jones is the problem, but repeating this is useless.
Moore called a garbage game vs. the 49ers, it was terrible.
Dak isn't among the elite QBs who can compensate for our OC or the staff for that matter. They continue to destroy the WR roster and have ignored the RB position for years. Until Elliott is in a wheelchair and we have nothing when Pollard goes down. Same with Romo. They couldn't give him enough at the same time to make a run and he got destroyed having to extend plays and make bad decisions. Ring a bell?
There may still be time for Dak, I'm not sure. But I would get rid of the JG clone and get an OC who understands a basic fact that championship teams need to run the ball late in the season.

Rinse and repeat. We all know what will have to happen to Jerry for change. Not to be a dick, but we all know. And, I'm not confident the next owner isn't going to be a unqualified control freak.