CFZ What to do when you’re stuck with two things you don’t want

[Streifenkarl]

Week 16 against the league's best team...

Down by 10 early in the game, then once again later in the game...

This game got dirty, and Dak was able to wash off the dust...

On to another meaningless 12-5 season then. Yay.

But hey, at least we're relevant.

In the end Dak is what many people here have been saying for a long time now: a bus driver and nothing more. And like Bob (and I) said, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the team strategy is set up accordingly such teams can go very far and even win it all. It's not like we can't find good or even awesome Dak games, but in the long run he is too dependable on the guys around him to be consistent. As long as we're stuck with Dak, we have to try the SF/Philly/Rams approach. And for that we cannot pay a QB as much as we're doing right now.

 

[CATCH17]

There are 3, maybe 4 truly elite QBs in the NFL. And, even they are not "carrying their team." It's not real. You need weapons around every QB. This is just a fact. Who would expect any QB still in the playoffs to "carry the team" with one no. 1 WR and a bunch of below par jags? Or, without any running game to speak of? The revolving door O line was awful in pressure situations, just bad. Dak isn't good enough to overcome that, it's not reasonable.

Jerry Jones is the problem, but repeating this is useless.
Moore called a garbage game vs. the 49ers, it was terrible.
Dak isn't among the elite QBs who can compensate for our OC or the staff for that matter. They continue to destroy the WR roster and have ignored the RB position for years. Until Elliott is in a wheelchair and we have nothing when Pollard goes down. Same with Romo. They couldn't give him enough at the same time to make a run and he got destroyed having to extend plays and make bad decisions. Ring a bell?
There may still be time for Dak, I'm not sure. But I would get rid of the JG clone and get an OC who understands a basic fact that championship teams need to run the ball late in the season.

Rinse and repeat. We all know what will have to happen to Jerry for change. Not to be a dick, but we all know. And, I'm not confident the next owner isn't going to be an unqualified control freak.

You don’t pay guys like Dak and expect to have the great supporting cast he needs. It’s not realistic.

You pay Dak then he has to be the Driver and not the trailer getting pulled.

So far the Cowboys have done a phenomenal job with surrounding him with talent considering his contract. They managed to build one of the leagues best defenses, maintain a high level of Oline play, and solid solid weapons outside.

He’s the problem.

 

[EJK24]

Good post @Bobhaze

I'd like to move on from Dak like many others but contractually, just isn't going to happen right now. I think we have to control what we can within limits so drafting a QB this year and next, depending on where we select them, should be in the cards. Also, there is no reason to keep Moore at this point.

Dak is who he is and I think we've seen this experiment long enough. If we draft a qb as many have suggested, it would benefit them to learn the new system of a new OC right off the bat. No reason to waste another year of Moores time or the teams.

New OC, draft one or two QB's over the next season or two and see where it takes us.

 

[G2]

You don’t pay guys like Dak and expect to have the great supporting cast he needs. It’s not realistic.

You pay Dak then he has to be the Driver and not the trailer getting pulled.

So far the Cowboys have done a phenomenal job with surrounding him with talent considering his contract. They managed to build one of the leagues best defenses, maintain a high level of Oline play, and solid solid weapons outside.

He’s the problem.

You've been repeating the same falsehoods for years with regard to salary. You never account for the rookie contract that paid Dak and Zeke pennies. Where was all the "available money" to get better talent?
It's a myth fans made up.
The market value, while I don't agree with it, goes up after every franchise QB is signed. The next guy will make more than the last.
That doesn't mean Dak is considered elite by anyone, but what you're not getting is that there aren't a half dozen elite QBs in the entire NFL.
There is no other reasonable solution if you want to keep a franchise QB the staff values.
Fans don't factor in. If the staff is set and they sign him, the expectations shouldn't be blown up like Dak is Tom Brady in his prime.

And the O line play was decent, but it's not an accurate assessment that it was consistently high level. Certainly not in pass protection.
Also, what "solid weapons outside?" I'd love an answer.

So again, market value and a players salary have NOTHING to do with how fans perceive talent. I wish it was based on performance and merit, but we don't make the rules and life's not a fairytale.

 

[CATCH17]

You've been repeating the same falsehoods for years with regard to salary. You never account for the rookie contract that paid Dak and Zeke pennies. Where was all the "available money" to get better talent?
It's a myth fans made up.
The market value, while I don't agree with it, goes up after every franchise QB is signed. The next guy will make more than the last.
That doesn't mean Dak is considered elite by anyone, but what you're not getting is that there aren't a half dozen elite QBs in the entire NFL.
There is no other reasonable solution if you want to keep a franchise QB the staff values.
Fans don't factor in. If the staff is set and they sign him, the expectations shouldn't be blown up like Dak is Tom Brady in his prime.

And the O line play was decent, but it's not an accurate assessment that it was consistently high level. Certainly not in pass protection.
Also, what "solid weapons outside?" I'd love an answer.

So again, market value and a players salary have NOTHING to do with how fans perceive talent. I wish it was based on performance and merit, but we don't make the rules and life's not a fairytale.

I’m not just looking at the Cowboys specifically. I’m looking at the entire NFL.

3 of the 4 remaining QBs are on rookie deals.

QBs on rookie or very cheap deals and truly elite QBs are the guys winning titles.

Not Dak’s.

That’s why I repeat it.. Because I’m simply just right.

 

[America's Cowboy]

On to another meaningless 12-5 season then. Yay.

But hey, at least we're relevant.

In the end Dak is what many people here have been saying for a long time now: a bus driver and nothing more. And like Bob (and I) said, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the team strategy is set up accordingly such teams can go very far and even win it all. It's not like we can't find good or even awesome Dak games, but in the long run he is too dependable on the guys around him to be consistent. As long as we're stuck with Dak, we have to try the SF/Philly/Rams approach. And for that we cannot pay a QB as much as we're doing right now.

I've always hated how much Jerry paid Dak, but Jerry created this overpay when he tagged Dak TWICE before Dak switched to the most greedy agent in the league. Jerry had 2 chances to sign Dak to way less of a contract ($28 mil/season or less), but Jerry and Stephen got selfish. They created this mess we have today.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Whether any of us like it or not, we are stuck with two things most of us are very tired of:

1. Jerry Jones as GM (and his cheap son)
2. Dak Prescott

There are a hundred threads about how and why Dak needs to go. A million more about nearly three decades of Jerry failures and repeated stupid mistakes. Yada, yada, yada. I’m as frustrated as anyone. But folks they’re both going to be back next year. Dak’s here at least two more seasons. Jerry will be the face of this organization until he takes a dirt nap.

So what could be done if we’re stuck with both? Essentially it’s the old idea about what to do when you don’t have enough apples to go around. You make applesauce.

The two ideas I believe this team desperately need are centered around finding new voices in both the front office and in the ear of Dak Prescott.

IDEA #1

• HIRE A NEW FRONT OFFICE ADVISOR (An Assistant GM) I know Jerry will never step aside, but what if he hired an advisor? A shadow GM. A guy who could whisper to Jerry and Stephen a modern blueprint for this organization to follow to build a winner.
  • JJ and SJ simply play fantasy football. They don’t get it. The only thing separating us from disaster is Will McClay. He is a great talent evaluator but he doesn’t get to sign FAs. Maybe Will McClay could be that guy who modernizes this FO to become more aggressive In FA. Or someone else.
  • BOTTOM LINE: We need some new talent and a voice in the front office. WE LOST THE SF GAME THIS PAST OFFSEASON. The way we do things DOES NOT WORK. WE NEED NEW DIRECTION.

IDEA #2

• HIRE A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR/QBs COACH: Hire a new OC. Someone who can coach Dak back to who he really is. A good but not great QB who is definitely not transcendent. He will never ever be a gunslinger who carries a team. He needs help. And good coaching. Kellen Moore ain’t that guy.
  • I believe Dak IS someone you can win multiple playoff games with, but in the mold of someone like Mark Rypien, Phil Simms or Jim Plunkett. Good enough but not transcendent. Dak must be surrounded by a good OL and a strong running game that keeps the defense honest. And get back to being a guy he was early in his career- careful with the ball.
  • Also, Dak has forgotten who he really is as a QB. He stopped being that careful QB he was when he came into the league and started believing he was a gunslinger, which he clearly is not. In his rookie year, Dak only threw 4 picks in 16 games.
  • In this current era of pro football where the passing game has become the coin of the realm, many of our fans have been lulled into thinking only a top shelf gunslinger, who can carry a team on his arm is capable of winning SBs. But guys like that- Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers…maybe a couple more…are really one in a million. Dak clearly is not one of those guys.
  • BOTTOM LINE: We need a new offense and OC. And more offensive weapons besides Pollard and Lamb.

ADDITIONAL IDEA:

• Draft a QB every other year to always have a young guy not just as a backup but someone who could possibly be the next starter.
  • Look at what SF did this year-drafting Brock Purdy when they already had Trey Lance as their future and Jimmy G as insurance. It was a wise move we never make.

Finally- we need to have an aggressive off-season. It’s great to have good drafts but in today’s NFL, it‘s not enough. If we go into this off-season with the same approach we’ve had the last several years, don’t expect different results.

Eh, Purdy was a 7th round pick and the last guy drafted. If they thought he was this good, they would have taken him a lot sooner. Purdy is a product of their system and the talent around him. He plays a lot like Dak played year 1 when he hardly ever turned the ball over. They can now trade Jimmy G for draft picks AND save cap space. They have the resources to significantly improve that team which is kinda scary.

 

[America's Cowboy]

You've been repeating the same falsehoods for years with regard to salary. You never account for the rookie contract that paid Dak and Zeke pennies. Where was all the "available money" to get better talent?
It's a myth fans made up.
The market value, while I don't agree with it, goes up after every franchise QB is signed. The next guy will make more than the last.
That doesn't mean Dak is considered elite by anyone, but what you're not getting is that there aren't a half dozen elite QBs in the entire NFL.
There is no other reasonable solution if you want to keep a franchise QB the staff values.
Fans don't factor in. If the staff is set and they sign him, the expectations shouldn't be blown up like Dak is Tom Brady in his prime.

And the O line play was decent, but it's not an accurate assessment that it was consistently high level. Certainly not in pass protection.
Also, what "solid weapons outside?" I'd love an answer.

So again, market value and a players salary have NOTHING to do with how fans perceive talent. I wish it was based on performance and merit, but we don't make the rules and life's not a fairytale.

 

[atlantacowboy]

I’m not just looking at the Cowboys specifically. I’m looking at the entire NFL.

3 of the 4 remaining TEAMS have QBs on rookie deals.

QBs on rookie or very cheap deals and truly elite QBs are the guys winning titles.

Not Dak’s.

That’s why I repeat it.. Because I’m simply just right.

 

[Streifenkarl]

You've been repeating the same falsehoods for years with regard to salary. You never account for the rookie contract that paid Dak and Zeke pennies. Where was all the "available money" to get better talent?
It's a myth fans made up.
The market value, while I don't agree with it, goes up after every franchise QB is signed. The next guy will make more than the last.
That doesn't mean Dak is considered elite by anyone, but what you're not getting is that there aren't a half dozen elite QBs in the entire NFL.
There is no other reasonable solution if you want to keep a franchise QB the staff values.
Fans don't factor in. If the staff is set and they sign him, the expectations shouldn't be blown up like Dak is Tom Brady in his prime.

And the O line play was decent, but it's not an accurate assessment that it was consistently high level. Certainly not in pass protection.
Also, what "solid weapons outside?" I'd love an answer.

So again, market value and a players salary have NOTHING to do with how fans perceive talent. I wish it was based on performance and merit, but we don't make the rules and life's not a fairytale.

So you're mitigating one mistake with another that was made before it?

And by the way. Dak and Zeke's red hot year(s?) were over way to fast to be able to build a great team around that. When the time of contract extension came, they should have considered that for both. We are where we are today because our FO stuck with two already declining players on key positions. And the worst thing is, they really think that 12-5 seasons prove them right.

 

[Streifenkarl]

I've always hated how much Jerry paid Dak, but Jerry created this overpay when he tagged Dak TWICE before Dak switched to the most greedy agent in the league. Jerry had 2 chances to sign Dak to way less of a contract ($28 mil/season or less), but Jerry and Stephen got selfish. They created this mess we have today.

Now with THAT I can agree. What a mess.

 

[G2]

I’m not just looking at the Cowboys specifically. I’m looking at the entire NFL.

3 of the 4 remaining QBs are on rookie deals.

QBs on rookie or very cheap deals and truly elite QBs are the guys winning titles.

Not Dak’s.

That’s why I repeat it.. Because I’m simply just right.

You just proved my point. Did you even read my post? Dak WAS under a tiny contract, same with Zeke and what was your excuse then?
Let me guess, Daks fault.

 

[Pantone282C]

 

[G2]

And by the way. Dak and Zeke's red hot year(s?) were over way to fast to be able to build a great team around that.

Then what difference would it have made? Do you not see the significance across the NFL?

No one comes with an actual solution to their perceived issue. It's astounding how short some fans memories are.

 

[Miller]

Here is my deal with Dak. When he is good..when he is on..and when I really enjoy his play..it’s when he’s rolling out and when he extends drives with his legs. At some point in the next two years he needs a coach or someone to convince him to put his body on the line. He’s not a pure pocket guy. He’s not a 5 step, read the D guy. Even a Brady is showing his age because he can’t move and there are not many pure pocket guys. At some point the team has to say “this is our way to win. You don’t have to be reckless with your body but we are calling plays where you are putting it out there.” Honestly that’s how I think you get the best of him because those are his best games. He’s almost 30 and playing careful isn’t getting us anywhere.

 

[Bobhaze]

The big picture problem in all this isn’t about Dak’s talent level or how much he’s being paid, etc. The biggest problem is having a GM and son who do not understand how to build a championship roster in the cap era.

Dak, Zeke, and whoever else you want to list as players in this current era are pawns in a much bigger game. In the modern NFL era, teams winning SBs or getting close have owners who hire super smart GMs like the rams Les Snead, Brett Veach of the chiefs, the 49ers John Lynch, Jason Licht of the Bucs and (hate to say it) Howie Roseman of the eagles.

All these guys are aggressive in the off season and have plans that impact the here and now. When Stephen Jones says “We have to think about the cap hit”, these guys say “hold my beer”.

Having a front office who doesn’t understand the modern NFL is our BIGGEST problem. Dak Prescott is a temporary problem. The Jones problem is forever!

 

[CATCH17]

You just proved my point. Did you even read my post? Dak WAS under a tiny contract, same with Zeke and what was your excuse then?
Let me guess, Daks fault.

Lol I don’t get your point.

I was saying not to sign Dak then because the majority of these QBs win on their rookie deals.

Even the truly elite QBs struggle and almost never win once they get paid.

I wasn’t making excuses for them. I said they couldn’t do it when all things were optimal so don’t pay them. Lol.

 

[CATCH17]

Here is my deal with Dak. When he is good..when he is on..and when I really enjoy his play..it’s when he’s rolling out and when he extends drives with his legs. At some point in the next two years he needs a coach or someone to convince him to put his body on the line. He’s not a pure pocket guy. He’s not a 5 step, read the D guy. Even a Brady is showing his age because he can’t move and there are not many pure pocket guys. At some point the team has to say “this is our way to win. You don’t have to be reckless with your body but we are calling plays where you are putting it out there.” Honestly that’s how I think you get the best of him because those are his best games. He’s almost 30 and playing careful isn’t getting us anywhere.

He doesn’t look natural though at extending plays. You can see the should I or shouldn’t I do this going through his head and it just has to be instinctive.

If Dak was a better scrambler / runner he would be a much much better player.

 

[Gaede]

Number one will never change. When Jerry does, Stephen will continue his 'legacy'. So there is not a single damn thing to do about that.

But with Dak, I would draft QBs, like you said. They will get playing time eventually (Dak is increasingly injured). All Jerry needs to see is a young, marketable, cheap, and reasonably competitive QB to force his hand. He did with Romo and Dak and he will do it again. But we need that flashy young talent. So yeah, drop a 2 or 3 rounder and start from there

 

[Streifenkarl]

Then what difference would it have made? Do you not see the significance across the NFL?

No one comes with an actual solution to their perceived issue. It's astounding how short some fans memories are.

The difference can be seen on teams like SF and, unfortunately the Eagles. Or the Rams. Don't focus on your QB if you weren't lucky enough to draft a Brady or Mahomes. Focus on the positions around him and if he doesn't agree to your teams come contract extension say good bye. Cowboys thought they had the next Goat or something and at the very same time made the mistake of not resigning him early. So in the end we got the worst of both worlds. A bad deal and a "not top 5“ QB. An injury prone O line and declining RB sealed the deal for the next years.

Now someone might think that's easy to say in hindsight, but Jerry got played by both Dak and Zeke. He lost twice and the whole organization has to pay the price now.

As I said in another thread: make it clear to Dak that you're parting ways after his contract is up, draft high for QBs and prepare for the time after. Trade Zeke now (even for nothing or pennies), don't resign Schultz, trade DLaw and put this whole team into rebuild mode. If you can't afford signing guys like Micah once the time comes trade them for many more picks. But you will be able to afford Micah, because... no QB's eating up your cap anymore. There are some great young guys on this team to do it with, but you have to start now. Don't wait another 2 years.

Oh, and sign a true GM and step the F back Jerry. Enjoy your retirement and you're probably see another SB before you go.

But hey, maybe Jerry has foreseen it all. One and out last year, 1-1 this season. NFCCG next year and the SB in '25.