What's the hold up?

MichaelWinicki

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LaTunaNostra said:
we're living in incredible fear here. Everyday we wake up with that sense of impending DOOM. The season is going to end today. In August.

This one's 'irreplacable", this one can't carry more than 3 times in preseason, this one can't be risked on returns, this one needs more rest, losing this one ends our 3-4 chances.

It's like playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded pistol. :rolleyes:


WE'RE DOOMED!
 

jobberone

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Vollers backed up by Tucker will work IMO. Tucker hasn't been having a good camp and I don't like the fact he has responded to adversity by nosediving instead of improving and fighting. But he's not the worse RT in the league. Plus we have Rob and Noll. Even Walters could be in the running to backup Vollers is Peterson goes down. Maybe Rob needs some time on the PS but we won't tank if Peterson goes down.

My list of really serious problems with injuries are:

Bledsoe
Glenn
Henry
TNew
Roy
JJ
Ware

After that it drops off some IMO. But we really need to keep injuries to key personnel (top 40 players) to an absolute minimum to keep ourselves in it. I think we need to be ok or near it at half season otherwise I'm afraid the team with lose some of its will to win. I hope that's not true but I'm afraid we need some momentum to get out of this losing muck we are in.
 

Fletch

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Sarge said:
What's the hold up to a potentially really fabulous season?

RT.

What does this team do if Rogers, who has a right shoulder that is ready to crack at a moments notice, goes down?

I am really excited about some of the rookies thus far but one thing that stands out is the poor play at the RT position and the fact that thus far, Rogers is the guy looking the best. A guy who has had...how many shoulder surgeries?

Thoughts?

Ready to crack at a moments notice? :rolleyes: I think you're overreacting. And besides, Rogers worked extremely hard in the offseason to strengthen his body. Marco Rivera as well as Parcells have said that Jacob Rogers has had one heck of an offseason.

Not to mention, he is holding down the position fairly well. I think RT will be solid this year.
 

LaTunaNostra

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MichaelWinicki said:
WE'RE DOOMED!
:D I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, Mikey.

The words "Newman" and "return" strike fear into my very core.

The words "primary punt returner" I find paralyzing.
 

Banned_n_austin

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dbair1967 said:
what does Indy do if Manning does down? what about the Pats if Brady gets wasted...I'm guessing the Chargers losing LT wouldnt be good

Someone has been listening to the ticket ...

I dont know any team in the 30 yrs or so I've watched football thats won or lost a championship because of who lines up at RT for them...I'm confident Rogers will do well, but even if he doesnt the RT position (just like those who go off the deep end about FS) wont cripple the team...it'd be a hinderance, but it wont cripple the team

David


I think there's too much panic going on about the RT spot too ... The rest of the line consists of mostly pro bowlers and Dan Cambell ...

***?
 

Sarge

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MichaelWinicki said:
It's the type of thing Sarge that truthfully we had far too many holes to fix everything in one season. .

No doubt about it. I was very pleased w/the draft and offseason. I think we did an excellent job. In fact, that was my point to begin with.

I think the only thing that may hold up a a truly fabulous season is the RT position (save FS).

Then, we had the usual.........what if this... what if that, jargon. ;)

Some missed the point.
 

Kilyin

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Manning would be the singl most devastating injury that could occur to an NFL team right now. His backup is Garcia Sergio or something. You would think the Colts would have addressed that better in the offseason.

Actually I think his name is Jim Sorgi, and he seems to be a decent backup QB from what I've seen. I'd definitely feel more comfortable with someone like him as my #2 than a baseball project or a golfer.
 

dbair1967

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Sarge said:
No doubt about it. I was very pleased w/the draft and offseason. I think we did an excellent job. In fact, that was my point to begin with.

I think the only thing that may hold up a a truly fabulous season is the RT position (save FS).

Then, we had the usual.........what if this... what if that, jargon. ;)

Some missed the point.

I didnt miss it at all...just dont recall RT or FS making or breaking a team in all my years of watching football...

hell in 1993 we won the super bowl with our 3rd center starting that yr (Stepnoski got hurt in December, Frank Cornish started some games (which were all wins for us by the way) and then John Gesek (who hadnt played center in years) started in the postseason...we've got 4 really solid starters at the other OL positions, not having an all world performer at RT isnt gonna hurt

David
 

MichaelWinicki

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LaTunaNostra said:
:D I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, Mikey.

The words "Newman" and "return" strike fear into my very core.

The words "primary punt returner" I find paralyzing.


OUCH!

I agree with you.

Where's my bankee!
 

Fletch

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Oh yeah, Sarge... this may help you a little bit...

In other news, Parcells all but named second-year player Jacob Rogers the starter at right tackle.

"He's much stronger than he was last year," Parcells said. "He is like light years ahead. His conditioning is better. His strength is better, and he's intelligent."
 

AtlCB

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jobberone said:
Vollers backed up by Tucker will work IMO. Tucker hasn't been having a good camp and I don't like the fact he has responded to adversity by nosediving instead of improving and fighting. But he's not the worse RT in the league. Plus we have Rob and Noll. Even Walters could be in the running to backup Vollers is Peterson goes down. Maybe Rob needs some time on the PS but we won't tank if Peterson goes down.

My list of really serious problems with injuries are:

Bledsoe
Glenn
Henry
TNew
Roy
JJ
Ware

After that it drops off some IMO. But we really need to keep injuries to key personnel (top 40 players) to an absolute minimum to keep ourselves in it. I think we need to be ok or near it at half season otherwise I'm afraid the team with lose some of its will to win. I hope that's not true but I'm afraid we need some momentum to get out of this losing muck we are in.

I would add Adams, Witten, K. Johnson, and the other Glenn to that list.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Rogers is playing well now and he suffered a shoulder injury once in college.

I cannot speak for his HS career.

Another way to look at this is that he was playing with not enough strength and it doesnt take a genius to figure out that increasing the strength in the shoulder would lessen the chance of injury.

A lot of this anti-Rogers sentiment comes from Eskimo's doom and gloom prognosis. Fact is that he has not seen the xrays and MRIs. He has no idea what the nature of the injuries nor what has been done to correct said problems. He will admit that he has no idea. I also think that he is tempered because he works PT for the average joe and sees people with chronis shoulder problems. These are professional athletes trained every day year round by the best trainers in the business.

Another thing to consider is the state of sports medicine. Pitchers such as Pedro Martinez and Wade Miller have had torn rotator cuffs and other shoulder issues yet are able to come back and throw 95+. I would say that a power pitcher puts just as much if not much more strain on the shoulder as does a offensive tackle.

Vollers did a very servicable job as a backup and is an asset to the team. The Cowboys know what Rogers medical prognosis and I would like to think that they would at least hedge there bets a bit better if they felt he was a serious injury risk. Just like they did at RB and CB.

Also do not forget that Allen and Noll can play tackle in a pinch. I can live with keeping Pettiti and Vollers to back up Adams and Rogers.
 

Sarge

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Fletch said:
Oh yeah, Sarge... this may help you a little bit...

In other news, Parcells all but named second-year player Jacob Rogers the starter at right tackle.

"He's much stronger than he was last year," Parcells said. "He is like light years ahead. His conditioning is better. His strength is better, and he's intelligent."

Uh, FLetch, the question was, what do we do if Rogers goes down.
 

CrazyCowboy

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LaTunaNostra said:
Well, Sarge. At least we won't have to suffer the Todd Steussie suggestions.

Tampa Bay just re-signed him.

Voller and Tucker, I guess.

How would this work LTN? Think about the possibilities of marketing on both sides of the ball: Marcus Spears........:laugh2:

Offensive lineman Marcus Spears, an 11-year veteran who signed as a free agent during the offseason, was released by the Cleveland Browns.
Spears had the longest NFL tenure of any Cleveland offensive lineman. A second-round pick of the Chicago Bears in 1994, he played in all 16 games and made three starts last season with the Houston Texans.

He also played for Kansas City, starting 16 games in 2001.

The Browns, who have rebuilt their offensive line this season, signed Spears in June after he was cut by Houston.
 

Manster68

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Sarge said:
What's the hold up to a potentially really fabulous season?

RT.

What does this team do if Rogers, who has a right shoulder that is ready to crack at a moments notice, goes down?

I am really excited about some of the rookies thus far but one thing that stands out is the poor play at the RT position and the fact that thus far, Rogers is the guy looking the best. A guy who has had...how many shoulder surgeries?

Thoughts?


Sarge,

You can do a "What if" on nearly the top 30 players on this roster.

The fact of the matter is...

1. Dallas addressed the offensive line.

2. No one truly knows how good or bad Jacob Rogers is.

3. The addition of Marco Rivera, as well as the return of Dan Campbell, will make anyone playing that RT position better.

I think the Cowboys offensive line, as a whole, is somewhere in the upper third at least among all of the NFL teams. One of the facets that puts Dallas that high is the depth.

Now, could Dallas improve at the tackle position? Sure

However, I think there were other areas on the team that needed to be addressed more (and pass rush and running back depth were addressed). Regardless, the addition of Rivera and Petitti, as well as Rogers and Peterman returning, should give Cowboy fans more hope than ever for improved play along the offensive line.
 

jobberone

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jobberone said:
Vollers backed up by Tucker will work IMO. Tucker hasn't been having a good camp and I don't like the fact he has responded to adversity by nosediving instead of improving and fighting. But he's not the worse RT in the league. Plus we have Rob and Noll. Even Walters could be in the running to backup Vollers is Peterson goes down. Maybe Rob needs some time on the PS but we won't tank if Peterson goes down.

My list of really serious problems with injuries are:

Bledsoe
Glenn
Henry
TNew
Roy
JJ
Ware

After that it drops off some IMO. But we really need to keep injuries to key personnel (top 40 players) to an absolute minimum to keep ourselves in it. I think we need to be ok or near it at half season otherwise I'm afraid the team with lose some of its will to win. I hope that's not true but I'm afraid we need some momentum to get out of this losing muck we are in.

I meant Rogers and not Peterson. Getting more and more senile.
 

Eskimo

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
Another way to look at this is that he was playing with not enough strength and it doesnt take a genius to figure out that increasing the strength in the shoulder would lessen the chance of injury.

A couple of points here.

Gross strength of the muscles of the shoulder girdle is related to the large superficial muscles such as pec major, lats, deltoid, etc. These muscles are actually rarely involved in any significant shoulder pathology and their strength is usually preserved and quickly re-established in my experience.

The issue usually becomes one of dynamic scapular stabilization and maintenance of glenohumeral stability which is provided by smaller, deeper muscles which are harder to re-train and recruit in an appropriate manner.

If you recall, T-New's draft stock may have fallen due to concerns about some nerve injury about his shoulder. Despite this injury he was still able to bench press large amounts of weight.

The fact Rogers has done well from a gross strength POV is good but I don't think it necessarily discounts his future risk of injury which is unknown but likely considerable.

A lot of this anti-Rogers sentiment comes from Eskimo's doom and gloom prognosis. Fact is that he has not seen the xrays and MRIs. He has no idea what the nature of the injuries nor what has been done to correct said problems. He will admit that he has no idea. I also think that he is tempered because he works PT for the average joe and sees people with chronis shoulder problems. These are professional athletes trained every day year round by the best trainers in the business.

Actually I have worked with some of the Eskimos from time to time with one of the sports med guys here so I do see pro athletes albeit not at the NFL level but he CFL level. I have seen a couple of the NHLers, too.

I do not have any insider information on any of Rogers' injuries or surgeries.

I do read quite a bit about shoulder injuries as nerve and tendon injuries about the shoulder are a particular interest of mine and the injuries that athletes get are always amongst the most interesting of the lot.

My main concern with Rogers is that his injuries are bilateral and recurrent. This likely speaks to some anatomical or biomechanical predisposition because going under the knife four times (two on each shoulder) at such a young age is very unusual.

I don't mean anyone to take my work here as gospel on this subject. My information is extremely limited and I can only speak from my clinical experience with the public and athletes and my reading.


Another thing to consider is the state of sports medicine. Pitchers such as Pedro Martinez and Wade Miller have had torn rotator cuffs and other shoulder issues yet are able to come back and throw 95+. I would say that a power pitcher puts just as much if not much more strain on the shoulder as does a offensive tackle.

Don't discount the strain an offensive tackle puts on his shoulders. Restraining charging 300 lb lineman is no small feat.

The other thing is the nature of a pitcher's work is predictability - this means they are under complete control of what they do with their arms and no one will interfere with them when they pitch. The offensive lineman deals with unpredictability where what happens to their shoulder depends on what is happening around them. Very different situation.


Vollers did a very servicable job as a backup and is an asset to the team. The Cowboys know what Rogers medical prognosis and I would like to think that they would at least hedge there bets a bit better if they felt he was a serious injury risk. Just like they did at RB and CB.

All I've ever advocated is that for the next while until Rogers re-establishes hsi ability to maintain his health at this level of competition, we need a guy who can step in and be a solid starter. If Parcells thinks Vollers can do that, then so be it.

Also do not forget that Allen and Noll can play tackle in a pinch. I can live with keeping Pettiti and Vollers to back up Adams and Rogers.

I don't know about Allen at OT again but haven't been impressed with Noll. BP likes him so I guess we'll see. Recall him being overpowered quite a bit in the Giants game at OG.

I think if Rogers goes down, Vollers will fill in the rest of the season. He will be no worse than Tucker was last year and probably will be better. Having Campbell back should make things easier for whoever lines up at RT.
 

NorTex

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Its funny that everyone seems to have forgotten about Rivera's back injury.

Also, every football player that is worth a damn has had some kind of injury to a shoulder or knee. Some of them you hear about, some you don't.

We can't get preoccupied with past injuries.

Raise your hand if you had injuries when you played football. Okay, ALL of you can put your hands down now.
 

Eskimo

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calcbfan1 said:
Its funny that everyone seems to have forgotten about Rivera's back injury.

Also, every football player that is worth a damn has had some kind of injury to a shoulder or knee. Some of them you hear about, some you don't.

We can't get preoccupied with past injuries.

Raise your hand if you had injuries when you played football. Okay, ALL of you can put your hands down now.

The fuss about Rivera's back injury is that he did have a back problem late last year with Green Bay and he came down the injury alarmingly close to the time when he signed his contract. I so some Independent Medical Examinations from time to time and such circumstances always draw suspicion (possible pre-existing condition exacerbated shortly after receiving a boat load of cash).

The other worry always with back injuries is whether there is a concommitant nerve injury. In Rivera's case, he appears to have made a full recovery without any sequelae.

The issue with Rogers isn't that he has had one shoulder injury. He has required four shoulder surgeries and injured his shoulder badly enough last preseason that he was ineffective the whole year.
 
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