When is capable not enough

[cowboyfan4lyfe]

No. Not even close. Collins looked better at T at the end of last year than this year. He's overpriced at RT with an elite contract and better than average but not great performance.

Straight up, I'd much rather use a 1st to draft the best available T in round one than sign Collins.

Collins has played the same 2 years in a row start the season slow then picks it up at the end. Can't afford to wait for him to warm up. He should have this down by now.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Collins has played the same 2 years in a row start the season slow then picks it up at the end. Can't afford to wait for him to warm up. He should have this down by now.

The excuse for this year could be the changes Alexander put in. Reportedly, Collins had the most trouble picking them up.

But by my recollection, he was playing better at the end of 2017 than 2018. It looks like he's good but not great, and more play time isn't going to change that. This is what he is. I don't see us extending him again.

 

[conner01]

I'll take great feet over an extra inch in the arms.
Lacks core body strength for G. It will get better, but it's clearly a weakness, even relative to tackles.

Great feet but limited core strength sounds more like a T than a G to me.

Strength is the easiest thing to fix

 

[rags747]

When is Capable enough when it relates to a QB?

 

[northerncowboynation]

True enough about what they've done with Williams. But he was a T and plays like a T. Maybe the thought will occur to them. I assumed moving Williams to RT was the plan all along.

We're looking at 4 10mil olinemen this year, and that can't go on forever. Collins is not up to the quality that they should be signing an extension for. We'll need a RT. Oh, whaddya know, we actually drafted a T in the second round a couple of years ago. If that isn't the plan, they're totally unprepared for dealing with Collins hitting free agency.

Martin isn't signed, and I doubt we sign him with SuaFilo, Looney, Ehinger, and Redmond already under contract for next year.

Oh, I thought Martin was under contract for another year. You're right, It was only 1 year

 

[xwalker]

Yep, Looney was capable but Fredbeard is way more than capable. Flemming was capable but Tyron is way more than capable. It's good to have capable backups but expect a decrease in productivity. I always do when I bring in a back up. Concerns, I have a few. Tackle being the biggest on the O-line. I think we can expect more MIA from Tyron. No point in talking about Williams at tackle because there is no talking at the office yet.

So where are we today, January 21? Tyron still has a back, Flemming is a FA and after that the cupboard is bare. Collins a FA in 2020. Again, no assumptions that Williams will get moved to T. Go all in on Flemming and sign him? Nope, he's only capable and some team will overpay capable as a starter.

That leaves us with a pool of FA T's and usually that pool is a wading pool, not an Olympic sized real pool. Sometimes it's a Dead Pool. Loved that movie. Who is in that pool? Any sharks, or just minnows? Draft a T in the 3'rd or 4'th round? Blasphemer! We need a DT, S, TE, WR!

Tell ya what, watch what this team does in FA, the positions they fill and you will know where we're headed in the draft. Don't believe me? Go back 1 year, 3 years, 5 years, and take a look at the positions filled in FA and positions targeted in the draft. Want to build a draft board by position? Wait until FA is over you will know exactly where to start. Then pick a name to fill the position.

I could ramble on about FA choices by position showing which positions we will draft but nah, that would be a rant not a ramble and Jimbob don't rant. Thoughts, comments, whines, moans, gripes? Y'all know what I'm sayin right​

I've posted before that OT is one of the biggest "needs". If Tyron is out long term, the team is doomed even with Fleming.

If OT is BPA at #58, then I'm fine with that.

Otherwise they really need to move Connor Williams to OT for training camp. They can always move him back to OG at the end of camp; however, if he stays at OG in camp, then they can't move him to OT during the season.

With Fred back at OC, they have Looney, Sua-Filo and Ehinger at OG.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Strength is the easiest thing to fix

Up to a point.

Combine profile says "Leader in locker room and voracious worker in weight room". He's not some lazy guy coming from some podunk school without proper training facilities.

It's easy to make progress toward your genetic potential. Williams has probably eaten much of that up already. He'll get stronger, but Williams is never going to be as powerful as Leary. Power is clearly not his strong suit. Agility is.

Low power, high agility says tackle.

 

[conner01]

Up to a point.

Combine profile says "Leader in locker room and voracious worker in weight room". He's not some lazy guy coming from some podunk school without proper training facilities.

It's easy to make progress toward your genetic potential. Williams has probably eaten much of that up already. He'll get stronger, but Williams is never going to be as powerful as Leary. Power is clearly not his strong suit. Agility is.

Low power, high agility says tackle.

By the end of the season he was playing pretty good. In fact against the rams he played very good

 

[buybuydandavis]

By the end of the season he was playing pretty good. In fact against the rams he played very good

I'll give him good. Much improved. I still think he's much better suited for T than G. More likely a very good T than a very good G.

 

[DanA]

It's definitely the trickiest thing for us to fix this off-season. Other stuff might be more important but fixing those positions are much more straight forward. It's really hard to get good tackles. FA's aren't going to come to be backups and OT tends to get cleaned out before the end of the 2nd round.

 

[Bullflop]

Just as the OP indicates, we have quite a number of needy positions to be attended to. Only so many will, or even can, be attended to effectively. There's no doubt but what only about half of our solutions are likely to be anything worthy of praise. Veteran free agency might very well come and go with simply backup-worthy personnel being acquired, if the past is any indication. Let's just hope some extraordinary talent acquisitions are to become a reality in the offseason. Otherwise, ending up with a finishing record comparable to the 10-6 of last year might well be a dubious outcome. God help us . . .

 

[Typhus]

I'll take great feet over an extra inch in the arms.
Lacks core body strength for G. It will get better, but it's clearly a weakness, even relative to tackles.

Great feet but limited core strength sounds more like a T than a G to me.

Measurables are what grades out most players but specifically Left Tackles.
You can grab guards that might drop because of this, but very hard to find your QBs body guard if they don't measure up.
Replacing a Tyron Smith will be a very difficult and costly endeavor, it will be McClays greatest achievement ever.

 

[conner01]

I'll give him good. Much improved. I still think he's much better suited for T than G. More likely a very good T than a very good G.

Agree to disagree
But on another topic how much of our oline problems came from Alexander you think
Everything I read about his blocking scheme seems to be the opposite of what fits our players
And especially a rookie needing to add strength
I doubt Williams got stronger during the season so I think some of his improvement came from Colombo
Alexander seems to want you to catch rusher, Colombo seems to want punch and extend arms to control
Having Fred back is gonna be huge but a camp with Colombo getting back to what these guys knows could have big effect on oline

 

[buybuydandavis]

Agree to disagree
But on another topic how much of our oline problems came from Alexander you think
Everything I read about his blocking scheme seems to be the opposite of what fits our players
And especially a rookie needing to add strength
I doubt Williams got stronger during the season so I think some of his improvement came from Colombo
Alexander seems to want you to catch rusher, Colombo seems to want punch and extend arms to control
Having Fred back is gonna be huge but a camp with Colombo getting back to what these guys knows could have big effect on oline

Agree to disagree - fair enough, we made our points

I bet a lot of Williams improving being a rookie adjusting to the nfl and a new position. Hard row to hoe. If he had just played straight though the season he might have been even better by the end of the season, but maybe the time off from starting did help his strength some.

The difference with Alexander makes sense of why Collins was having the most trouble with the transition. His punch is one of his strongest attributes, and Alexander took it away. Even though Williams doesn't have the same power, his combine profile said he had strong and precise punches. Alexander wasn't doing him any favors either.

I liked the hire of Alexander to bring a breadth of knowledge for new *options* for the oline, but forcing a uniform technique change on an oline with perennial pro bowlers was dumb. It wasn't broke, in fact it was a strength, so don't screw it up.

Another failure to properly manage our coaches. Garrett really just isn't a good HC.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Measurables are what grades out most players but specifically Left Tackles.
You can grab guards that might drop because of this, but very hard to find your QBs body guard if they don't measure up.
Replacing a Tyron Smith will be a very difficult and costly endeavor, it will be McClays greatest achievement ever.

RTs tend to have shorter arms. We're not giving up much length from Collins to Williams. Maybe a quarter inch. There was some analysis of arm length back in 2012, I think versus approximate value. The trend was slightly negative. Teams are weighting the measurables too much relative to performance.

Our next LT won't be as good as Tyron. But we have a hardier QB now. We'll live.

 

[Jake]

Trade Collins to get back in the first round. He doesn't want to play on the inside of the line. His contract is up after this season. Get some value and draft a swing Tackle with talent and get ready to replace Smith.

Why do the Cowboys need an army of first rounders on the offensive line? Most teams aren't building their offensive line that way and what gets sacrificed to do it?

If the only way this team can win is with 20 first round picks then we're not going to win for a long time.

 

[blueblood70]

Yep, Looney was capable but Fredbeard is way more than capable. Flemming was capable but Tyron is way more than capable. It's good to have capable backups but expect a decrease in productivity. I always do when I bring in a back up. Concerns, I have a few. Tackle being the biggest on the O-line. I think we can expect more MIA from Tyron. No point in talking about Williams at tackle because there is no talking at the office yet.

So where are we today, January 21? Tyron still has a back, Flemming is a FA and after that the cupboard is bare. Collins a FA in 2020. Again, no assumptions that Williams will get moved to T. Go all in on Flemming and sign him? Nope, he's only capable and some team will overpay capable as a starter.

That leaves us with a pool of FA T's and usually that pool is a wading pool, not an Olympic sized real pool. Sometimes it's a Dead Pool. Loved that movie. Who is in that pool? Any sharks, or just minnows? Draft a T in the 3'rd or 4'th round? Blasphemer! We need a DT, S, TE, WR!

Tell ya what, watch what this team does in FA, the positions they fill and you will know where we're headed in the draft. Don't believe me? Go back 1 year, 3 years, 5 years, and take a look at the positions filled in FA and positions targeted in the draft. Want to build a draft board by position? Wait until FA is over you will know exactly where to start. Then pick a name to fill the position.

I could ramble on about FA choices by position showing which positions we will draft but nah, that would be a rant not a ramble and Jimbob don't rant. Thoughts, comments, whines, moans, gripes? Y'all know what I'm sayin right​

hows this differ from anywhere in the league at any positions, backups are drop off but the team around them have to pick up the slack when it does happen, you can only plug so many holes until the dike rakes and the season is over.. Looney can start anywhere eIMO so hes not Fredrick the dropff wasn't that steep , hes a keeper..yes the others were a big drop off but they held their ground.. nothing different look at Smith when Zekes out, look what used to happen when Lee was out, even Irving wasn't made up for with our Dline, no way Tank has backup anywhere enear his production.. its the same.. you cant have PB players at every postion and especially backup..

the Cowboys will cross that road when it becomes and issue.. Cwill will Develop and Looney will be primary backup G/C and when and if Lc or Tsmith they will have to draft or grab FA to bridge to the next guy..this happens around the league..no way to truly plan to replace a Tsmith and LC may get to stay to do just that because arT is easer to replace then left for a right handed QB..LC is better LT because hes left handed and im betting he will stay to be Tsmith replacement Cwill goes to RT IF he fails at LG..we have the meat, Arbys quote lol.

.just have to mix and match the pieces when its necessary..