Where is our missing pass rush?

[Gfunk]

I was really surprised too

ya'll did play very physical and violent at the LOS, so you can't take that away from the team

but that JAX o-line has been having protection problems for years, maybe Mike Tice has really done some genuine coaching

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I was really surprised too

ya'll did play very physical and violent at the LOS, so you can't take that away from the team

but that JAX o-line has been having protection problems for years, maybe Mike Tice has really done some genuine coaching

Good point, gfunk. They do have a new O-line coach, and one with pretty good credentials at that, so maybe they are improved for that reason.

 

[Clove]

After rewatching the game last night, I noticed that Ware didn't rush the passer as much as I thought he should have. Secondly, we rarely blitzed, and I can't understand why.

It seems like Pittsburgh and San Diego blitz like every other play.

ANd thrid, I think that Hatcher needs more playing time on the opposite side of Ware in Nickel situations, honestly.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

Well for those that think the game is won in the trenches it could just be that our guys aint good enough. Oh you can talk scheme all you want. But the bottomline is you're gonna have pass rushers that need to simply beat the man in front of them. Same with your O-linemen.

Yeah blitzing is all well and good and as other have pointed out, the whole purpose of that is to create a scenario where the blitzer doesnt have to beat anyone because he goes unblocked. That indeed as been an issue for years. When we finally do blitz it's almost like the blitzer purposely looks for a dood to engage with.

But cant we ever beat someone 1 on 1 from a base package with any regularity? Apparently not.

That is why their running game was so effective. It all starts with our NT, who seemed to find his game this preseason. Ferguson was getting shoved all around, and wasn't getting help by his linemates. If he is getting doubled all game long, then somebody has to be open to make the play. I lost count of all the missed or broken tackles by our LBs & DBs.
When their running game is so effective, it makes our pass rush much less effective. Their trenches kicked our trenches a**.

 

[RCowboyFan]

As I suspected that people will blame Zimmer, but it seems like blame should be based Squarely on BP. He said in pre-season that Zimmer was thinking up some Exotic stuff and BP asked Zimmer to simmer down since he thought the players weren't ready for it.

I mean no Blitz or they barely blitzed. And ineffective Blitz when they did, probaly two times they did it. I don't know, for me, more than Bledsoe and Offense, Defense is the one that gave me a bad feeling about this season. We shall see I guess.

 

[Stautner]

Well for those that think the game is won in the trenches it could just be that our guys aint good enough. Oh you can talk scheme all you want. But the bottomline is you're gonna have pass rushers that need to simply beat the man in front of them. Same with your O-linemen.

Yeah blitzing is all well and good and as other have pointed out, the whole purpose of that is to create a scenario where the blitzer doesnt have to beat anyone because he goes unblocked. That indeed as been an issue for years. When we finally do blitz it's almost like the blitzer purposely looks for a dood to engage with.

But cant we ever beat someone 1 on 1 from a base package with any regularity? Apparently not.

This is a great point and should be read with interest by all those who constantly blame play calling for our woes. If we are incapable of winning the wars up front and can only succeed by trickery and deception and creativity, then that is a sign that there is some talent missing. If the talent is as strong as some think, then we should be able to beat people straight up a reasonable part of the time.

 

[Stautner]

That is why their running game was so effective. It all starts with our NT, who seemed to find his game this preseason. Ferguson was getting shoved all around, and wasn't getting help by his linemates. If he is getting doubled all game long, then somebody has to be open to make the play. I lost count of all the missed or broken tackles by our LBs & DBs.
When their running game is so effective, it makes our pass rush much less effective. Their trenches kicked our trenches a**.

It seemed to me the bulk of JAcksonville's rushing success was when the RB bounced to the outside - they didn't seem to consistently drive it down our throat.

 

[odog422]

I've thought right along that our pass rush was going to be a big time problem this year.

While some may not consider Glover a major missing part but the guy was arguably our second or third best pass rusher--- and none of the starters have filled the void.

Neither Canty or Spears were big-time pass rushers in college and I doubt they will be in the pros-- neither has that "burst" needed to be a good pass rusher.

Ferguson may press the pocket a little but he isn't a "Glover" when it comes to rushing the passer.

Our pass rush on the early downs was just horrid... absolutely horrid.

We only had 37 sacks last year... I doubt we get that many this year.

i agree. one of the supposed advantages that was touted about this 3-4 switch was that we would create better opportunities to rush the passer -- the OL wouldnt know where the pressure was coming from.

yesterday looked like last year to me -- our guys running into their OL and going back to the passer, around the passer, everywhere except on top of the passer.

i relayed to a couple of friends something bill said last year about zimmer wanting to run some different blitz packages and parcells letting him know that he didnt think the personnel was ready for that yet. ok...........a year later......and the same thing? am i mistaken or did i not see RW blitz til there was less than 5 minutes in the game? burnett? james? anyone see those guys overloading a side and coming?

i honestly think parcells prefers the 3-4 from a fundametal approach, but if were hoping to see some major pressure from some nice blitz schemes, we better either get belichick or another innovative 3-4 minded coordinator.

mind you, i havent been on the GROZ bandwagon, but clearly its not working. yesterday was supposed to be the birth of the new high pressure D, having gotten acclimated in the past year.

what happened?

 

[Cas2800]

After rewatching the game last night, I noticed that Ware didn't rush the passer as much as I thought he should have. Secondly, we rarely blitzed, and I can't understand why.

It seems like Pittsburgh and San Diego blitz like every other play.

ANd thrid, I think that Hatcher needs more playing time on the opposite side of Ware in Nickel situations, honestly.

We better put some pressure on Brunell or he will tear us apart. If we can hit him early we will rattle him. He's just like Bledsoe.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

As I suspected that people will blame Zimmer, but it seems like blame should be based Squarely on BP. He said in pre-season that Zimmer was thinking up some Exotic stuff and BP asked Zimmer to simmer down since he thought the players weren't ready for it.

I mean no Blitz or they barely blitzed. And ineffective Blitz when they did, probaly two times they did it. I don't know, for me, more than Bledsoe and Offense, Defense is the one that gave me a bad feeling about this season. We shall see I guess.

I agree. The blame should be on Purcells.

I know watching Canty, Ferguson and Spears trying to create pressure on their own without Ware and/or Ellis (during the early downs) is enough to cause tears--- you watch the offensive line step back a couple yards and just absorb the rush without the QB ever feeling pressure.

 

[Cbz40]

I put all the blame on the coaching......With the talent we have are you telling me they cannot come w/at least two or three blitz packages that can get to the QB.??????????

Campo could....every D coach in the NFL can. Zimmer did in Parcells first year. I ask you Why can't we now?

 

[gbrittain]

I put all the blame on the coaching......With the talent we have are you telling me they cannot come w/at least two or three blitz packages that can get to the QB.??????????

Campo could....every D coach in the NFL can. Zimmer did in Parcells first year. I ask you Why can't we now?

Tell me about it. I put most of the blame squarely on the shoulders of both BP and Zimmer. I have heard every excuse imaginable and they all suck.

 

[Cbz40]

Tell me about it. I put most of the blame squarely on the shoulders of both BP and Zimmer. I have heard every excuse imaginable and they all suck.

I complained about this last season.....I was told by many...well we are in a new D, too many rookies on D. Well what's the excuse this year?

 

[gbrittain]

I complained about this last season.....I was told by many...well we are in a new D, too many rookies on D. Well what's the excuse this year?

I am sure the Kumbaya's will think of something that will excuse Dallas "dont hurt'em" philosophy.

That is right, the Kumbaya's. If I am going to be labeled a chicken little, there has to be a good name for the everything is ok crowd.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling. No it is not. It fell over 10 years ago and has not lifted since.

 

[Stautner]

I complained about this last season.....I was told by many...well we are in a new D, too many rookies on D. Well what's the excuse this year?

Number 1: IT'S ONE GAME .....don't be a fair weather fan - wait and see how it plays out as the season progresses.

Number 2: Who are the proven pass rushers on this team? You seem to think we have Lawrence Taylor and Julius Peppers, when what we really have is an older veteran LB (Ellis) who has had moderate success as a pass rusher while playing another postion, and a 2nd year player (Ware) who has yet to establish himself as a consistent pass rushing presence.

Number 3: Roy and some of the LB's did blitz yesterday, it just didn't garner much results.

Number 4: If the players can't beat opponents one on one on any semi-consisent basis, an elaborate blitzing package ends up being a smoke and mirrors attempt to mask deficiencies.

BOTTOME LINE: Perhaps the coaches could have done more and made some calls that would have helped, but the players still have to go out and make plays - and that didn't happen. The biggest impact in the game is player execution, not game time coaching decisions.

 

[DipChit]

Did nobody who wants to hang it all on the coaches hear Jimmy in the pre-game yesterday? He said it was all about having great players. He said it in the context of T.O.

Then he went on to say how that what happened when he was here and they went out and got Haley. While he obviously acknowledged we were getting pretty good even before he came, he for all intents and purposes suggested that he was what got us over the top.

If it was just all about coaching no one guy should've been able to make such a difference.

Last I checked we dont have any Haleys on this team and havent had since he left.

 

[gbrittain]

Number 1: IT'S ONE GAME .....don't be a fair weather fan - wait and see how it plays out as the season progresses.
Number 2: Who are the proven pass rushers on this team? You seem to think we have Lawrence Taylor and Julius Peppers, when what we really have is an older veteran LB (Ellis) who has had moderate success as a pass rusher while playing another postion, and a 2nd year player (Ware) who has yet to establish himself as a consistent pass rushing presence.

Number 3: Roy and some of the LB's did blitz yesterday, it just didn't garner much results.

Number 4: If the players can't beat opponents one on one on any semi-consisent basis, an elaborate blitzing package ends up being a smoke and mirrors attempt to mask deficiencies.

BOTTOME LINE: Perhaps the coaches could have done more and made some calls that would have helped, but the players still have to go out and make plays - and that didn't happen. The biggest impact in the game is player execution, not game time coaching decisions.

You just called CBZ a fair weather fan. Seriously, I know you mean well but you should be around here a little longer before you go and call people fair weather fans.

 

[Future]

He's Roy Williams. He blows guys like that up for breakfast. Yes, it was a great play by Drew, but Roy needed to make a better one.

I doubt you or I or anyone will remember this ever, but that guy will become one of the best pass protection RBs in football. Nobody can blow up a guy that short and that thick. Its just physically very difficult. RW is a great blitzer but when a guy is waiting there for anybody like that don't expect much.

 

[Stautner]

You just called CBZ a fair weather fan. Seriously, I know you mean well but you should be around here a little longer before you go and call people fair weather fans.

No, I didn't call him a fair weather fan, but I did suggest that his comment was indicative of one. I know the distinction may seem small, but there is a distinction. No offense intended.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know the guy's history, but I also believe it is fair to say that making judgements bout the poor quality of our defense this year is premature. The defense didn't play as well as we hoped, but it is one game and not necessarily an indication of what will play out this year.

By the way - one more comment about the defense. Had the offense played well, the defense would likely hve looked better. As it was, our anemic offense made sure our defense spent a lot of time on the field and didn't have the benefit of playing with a lead other than for the 1st quarter.

The reality is that the 1st quarter of this game showed the kind of potential this team has, and the last 3 quarters shows we still have a ways to go to live up to the potential. Only time will tell how it plays out.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Demarcus Ware looked very average. If that.