Who do you have more confidence in Mazi or Guyton moving ahead?

gtb1943 said:
Guyton should never have gone in the first or started at LT his rookie year
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Yep. I mean, even Tyron didn't play LT his rookie year. After the Guyton pick was made (whether it was a good choice or not) the Cowboys could've started Tyler Smith at LT for Guyton's first season but their insistence on keeping Smith at G was downright arrogant imo. They had seen he could play LT without a problem.
 
Cowboyny said:
This is one of the things the Eagles are very good at and the Cowboys struggle with. They admit their mistakes and correct them, Cowboys hold out hope that they will somehow develop and make a leap.
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Really are are you telling me they cut Huff after giving him a three year nearly $60 million contract he did nothing last year, did they cut him did ,they trade him???

I mean is he still on this team I'm betting he is i'm betting that you're wrong yes eventually they admit they're wrong but they still give their players a chance to overcome it..

i've seen several wide receivers before they finally went and got Brown and then got lucky with Smith they were struggling to find a wide receiver in the draft,

they kept dudes on this team to dim belong on an NFL roster, i've seen it in their D-backfield..

so as much as you guys keep boot licking the Eagles they're not much different than anyone else they're not going to get rid of a first round pick after 1 year they're not cutting an NFL first round pick, after one season ..nope

now Mazi he's already going to be challenged and moved to a backup role if he doesn't have the light come on this year, they already brought in players to challenge him two draft picks and Rogers all are saying that they are ready to challenge this guy for his job..

Some of you all act like you're totally naive of the fact that other teams have depth guys role players that are just like Mozzy and they have guys that they've picked high that they're trying to get as much of a chance to make it all teams have those guys on their roster and you acting like the Eagles just cut everyone that don't look good after their rookie year or bail early if someone has one bad year because I already just gave you examples of the fact that they don't..

The NFL is full of those players ,I mean I don't even know how Deshaun Watson kept his job at that kind of money ,they didn't bail on him and they probably should have but they don't that's not what NFL teams do that's what you think they do just because Carson Wentz eventually they lucky they had one of their ex coaches and one of his pet cat coaches at Love Carson Wednesday got lucky to unload him on Indianapolis..

he was not going anywhere and they would have been stuck with cutting him and eating all that they absolutely got lucky that's similar to the Hershel Walker trade, sometimes you just luck out...

That was not strategic you can bootlick the Eagles all you want I get tired of hearing about it they make mistakes just like anyone else a couple of years back it was coaches they didn't replace them with the right coaching staff they couldn't find a defensive backfield worth assault and last year they got lucky because Huff was really bad and they wasted $17 million but they got lucky on what all the same thing Jerry does the budget players they turned out to be pretty good those budget free agents actually worked out for them.

But Sure, tell me how the Eagles are different,

they've gotten lucky in some spots but I can tell you this why didn't they cut or trade Dallas Goedert he's been about on the same level as Ferguson but Ferguson's on a rookie contract and ever since Dallas got paid, he's had one bad year after another ,and I say bad because he's not living up to his contract and yet he's still on the team...

HMMM isn't that crazy that I can point out players that are making too much money that they overpaid and they're still there don't look at his production the last three seasons ever since he got paid he's been on a decline and yet they didn't cut him that's weird they didn't trade him that's odd... I mean the irony here is you think the Eagles do this every time and I'm telling you they do not..

Ohh also the irony is people rip Dallas for bringing over budget players that they did the same thing and you know that Hillis wide receiver was also on their team for a cup of coffee but when he's on our team for a cup of coffee somehow Jerry gets all the blowback but yet every team has these players and maybe y'all don't get the concept the bottom of the roster turning at least thirty players they're very similar on all teams.. they call it depth and role payers...


So , I hope you can get that leather taste from all the boot licking off of your mouth and have a better day because I'm shutting down the theory that they are perfect organization that makes no mistakes..

ohh and then they make mistakes and own up to it no there's a lot of mistakes they made they're not owning up to when you're in a salary cap league and you have holes to fill every year you do not just cut players at a whim you try to get them to work out and sometimes yeah you got to demote them and I think Mazzy's going to be demoted but again you have guys like Mozzy in a second or third role as long as they're on a cheap contract all teams are built that way you do realize with 63 people on the roster there's a whole lot of Mazis on a whole lot of teams....
 
I think it's too early on Guyton. He had a rough rookie season but we have to see how he responds. Maybe he worked hard in the offseason to improve his physical shape and strength.

Mazi has a couple of season under him and I think this is his last chance to prove he can play well at the NFL level. I am skeptical. But I am skeptical about Guyton too.
 
blueblood70 said:
Really are are you telling me they cut Huff after giving him a three year nearly $60 million contract he did nothing last year, did they cut him did ,they trade him???

I mean is he still on this team I'm betting he is i'm betting that you're wrong yes eventually they admit they're wrong but they still give their players a chance to overcome it..

i've seen several wide receivers before they finally went and got Brown and then got lucky with Smith they were struggling to find a wide receiver in the draft,

they kept dudes on this team to dim belong on an NFL roster, i've seen it in their D-backfield..

so as much as you guys keep boot licking the Eagles they're not much different than anyone else they're not going to get rid of a first round pick after 1 year they're not cutting an NFL first round pick, after one season ..nope

now Mazi he's already going to be challenged and moved to a backup role if he doesn't have the light come on this year, they already brought in players to challenge him two draft picks and Rogers all are saying that they are ready to challenge this guy for his job..

Some of you all act like you're totally naive of the fact that other teams have depth guys role players that are just like Mozzy and they have guys that they've picked high that they're trying to get as much of a chance to make it all teams have those guys on their roster and you acting like the Eagles just cut everyone that don't look good after their rookie year or bail early if someone has one bad year because I already just gave you examples of the fact that they don't..

The NFL is full of those players ,I mean I don't even know how Deshaun Watson kept his job at that kind of money ,they didn't bail on him and they probably should have but they don't that's not what NFL teams do that's what you think they do just because Carson Wentz eventually they lucky they had one of their ex coaches and one of his pet cat coaches at Love Carson Wednesday got lucky to unload him on Indianapolis..

he was not going anywhere and they would have been stuck with cutting him and eating all that they absolutely got lucky that's similar to the Hershel Walker trade, sometimes you just luck out...

That was not strategic you can bootlick the Eagles all you want I get tired of hearing about it they make mistakes just like anyone else a couple of years back it was coaches they didn't replace them with the right coaching staff they couldn't find a defensive backfield worth assault and last year they got lucky because Huff was really bad and they wasted $17 million but they got lucky on what all the same thing Jerry does the budget players they turned out to be pretty good those budget free agents actually worked out for them.

But Sure, tell me how the Eagles are different,

they've gotten lucky in some spots but I can tell you this why didn't they cut or trade Dallas Goedert he's been about on the same level as Ferguson but Ferguson's on a rookie contract and ever since Dallas got paid, he's had one bad year after another ,and I say bad because he's not living up to his contract and yet he's still on the team...

HMMM isn't that crazy that I can point out players that are making too much money that they overpaid and they're still there don't look at his production the last three seasons ever since he got paid he's been on a decline and yet they didn't cut him that's weird they didn't trade him that's odd... I mean the irony here is you think the Eagles do this every time and I'm telling you they do not..

Ohh also the irony is people rip Dallas for bringing over budget players that they did the same thing and you know that Hillis wide receiver was also on their team for a cup of coffee but when he's on our team for a cup of coffee somehow Jerry gets all the blowback but yet every team has these players and maybe y'all don't get the concept the bottom of the roster turning at least thirty players they're very similar on all teams.. they call it depth and role payers...


So , I hope you can get that leather taste from all the boot licking off of your mouth and have a better day because I'm shutting down the theory that they are perfect organization that makes no mistakes..

ohh and then they make mistakes and own up to it no there's a lot of mistakes they made they're not owning up to when you're in a salary cap league and you have holes to fill every year you do not just cut players at a whim you try to get them to work out and sometimes yeah you got to demote them and I think Mazzy's going to be demoted but again you have guys like Mozzy in a second or third role as long as they're on a cheap contract all teams are built that way you do realize with 63 people on the roster there's a whole lot of Mazis on a whole lot of teams....
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Cowboys have always overrated their prospects. They have always been too slow to react in making decisions which causes cap ramificiations. We see if all the time here they wait to the last minute to extend and then they are forced to release the player early in their new deals.

For these young players that they have drafted, they rarely bring in legitimate competition for their spots and hand them starting positions. When they struggle, they tend to blame coaches, but never take accountability for their own mistakes. Teams miss on draft picks all the time, but they don't wait until their contract expires to make a change. The Jones family rather keep the low, controllable contract then fix the position.
 
Since your question is framed around confidence, I’d have to say Mazi based on him being the known quantity. Mazi has time to get better but I think his playing potential window is starting to take shape.

Guyton is your unknown which is not a good thing in terms of confidence. The guy came to Dallas with a body and a tool kit filled with techniques he doesn’t really know how to use. He’s had some good reps., but too many reps. that leave you wanting more Edoga and that’s absolutely frightening.

The hope is Guyton has more upside, but until he starts piecing together positive reps., it’s just hope. On the plus side for TG, there’s the typical body maturation between year 1 and 2, and the belief that this coaching staff is better suited to get the best out of the player.
 
blueblood70 said:
I disagree he's not going to be a guard at worse he's going to be the future right tackle and there's nothing wrong with that and the move down into the 20s I can't remember where we picked him mid to late 20s you know Cooper of Bebe is attached to that trade down they go together and together it makes it a great pick IMHO
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That doesn't make any sense. They could have made the same trade and picked a different player. His post was about the picking of Guyton, not the evaluating of the return they got back in the trade or "winning the trade". So it could be a "good trade" but not a "good pick". He was a first rounder. He needs to be at worst a league average starter (so top 32 OT?) to not be a bad pick and that doesn't even necessarily make it a good pick, just not a bad pick. If when we discuss the trade 3 years from now we are still saying 'at least we got Beebe' that is even more of an indictment on Guyton'. Hopefully that won't happen and Guyton becomes the player the team hoped when we picked need over BPA because we all know that's what was done with both he and Mazi and that's why this thread exists. It's funny how they walk around patting themselves on the back telling everyone who will listen how they don't draft for need but rather just take the best player when it's been one year in a row now...
 
jazzcat22 said:
I have confidence in the new coaching staff having confidence in both of them.
And that should give fans confidence as well.
I feel both will improve.
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Totally agree. More for Guyton than Mazi on the pure coaching side because I think what he needs most is learning and coaching and developing and I think our OC is kind of an OL guru and I like what I read about our OL coach and I love how the OC says they are going to play to the players strengths not try and force them into what his vision of a blocking scheme is. With Mazi I don't think it is the coaching itself that will help as much as the scheme. For whatever reason and contrary to what we were sold when he was drafted he has showed very little strength and has trouble holding his ground and both Quinn and Zimmer's defenses needed him to stand his ground and control the gap (one or two depending on which). Eberflus is going to have more of a Marinelli scheme where Mazi is going to take on more of a penetrating role. So let's see how he does with that. He can't be worse than in the last two schemes.
 
Cowboyny said:
-Mazi Smith had a better 2nd season where he flashed at times, but struggled with consistency. He did miss a good portion of the offseason coming back from injury. Run defense was bad last season as a whole, they also were dead last in red zone D and allowed the most rushing TD's in the entire league. 3rd DC in as many years, but his clock is ticking to make that jump.

-Tyler Guyton was a penalty machine, had 18, the 2nd most in the entire league. Keep in mind, he was in and out of the lineup due to injuries and poor performance. He was one of the main reasons why they were among the worst red zone offenses with drive killing penalties. His play did improve as the season progressed and we have to put it into perspective, Tyler Smith had 15 as a rookie, so there is hope. Also, factor in the switch to Left Tackle, where he played Right Tackle the majority of his college career. It isn't that easy for a young player to make that transition. Tyron Smith played his whole rookie yr as a RT before he made the switch.
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Mazi is the Definition of a complete bust. I seriously cant understand why people still hang on to him or have hope he could finally morph into a good player.

Guyton is just a very bad draft pick. As for that he is a bust. Also he wont be able to play inside. But i think with some more work he could be a good swing tackle for us.

So idiot go with Guyton.
 
Cowboyny said:
Cowboys have always overrated their prospects. They have always been too slow to react in making decisions which causes cap ramificiations. We see if all the time here they wait to the last minute to extend and then they are forced to release the player early in their new deals.

For these young players that they have drafted, they rarely bring in legitimate competition for their spots and hand them starting positions. When they struggle, they tend to blame coaches, but never take accountability for their own mistakes. Teams miss on draft picks all the time, but they don't wait until their contract expires to make a change. The Jones family rather keep the low, controllable contract then fix the position.
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:facepalm: :popcorn::oldcouple::espn:....

Every
Senseless
Persons
Narrative
.
Ah yes, the endless fan narratives who believe they're better than the professional scouts and teams they're some delusional people in here you know the answer we can fix the Cowboys in 10 minutes literally if you were the owner and then blah blah blah blah if I was the GM blah blah blah blah oK..

You have love all the wasted talent in here ,

everyone in here is a professional that has plans that are going unheard I mean you all ought to apply for the NFL you ought to tell Roger Goodell and Jerry Jones how you're smarter than them and that you've thought of things they've never thought of I mean you guys are wasting your talents....
 
blueblood70 said:
Really are are you telling me they cut Huff after giving him a three year nearly $60 million contract he did nothing last year, did they cut him did ,they trade him???

I mean is he still on this team I'm betting he is i'm betting that you're wrong yes eventually they admit they're wrong but they still give their players a chance to overcome it..

i've seen several wide receivers before they finally went and got Brown and then got lucky with Smith they were struggling to find a wide receiver in the draft,

they kept dudes on this team to dim belong on an NFL roster, i've seen it in their D-backfield..

so as much as you guys keep boot licking the Eagles they're not much different than anyone else they're not going to get rid of a first round pick after 1 year they're not cutting an NFL first round pick, after one season ..nope

now Mazi he's already going to be challenged and moved to a backup role if he doesn't have the light come on this year, they already brought in players to challenge him two draft picks and Rogers all are saying that they are ready to challenge this guy for his job..

Some of you all act like you're totally naive of the fact that other teams have depth guys role players that are just like Mozzy and they have guys that they've picked high that they're trying to get as much of a chance to make it all teams have those guys on their roster and you acting like the Eagles just cut everyone that don't look good after their rookie year or bail early if someone has one bad year because I already just gave you examples of the fact that they don't..

The NFL is full of those players ,I mean I don't even know how Deshaun Watson kept his job at that kind of money ,they didn't bail on him and they probably should have but they don't that's not what NFL teams do that's what you think they do just because Carson Wentz eventually they lucky they had one of their ex coaches and one of his pet cat coaches at Love Carson Wednesday got lucky to unload him on Indianapolis..

he was not going anywhere and they would have been stuck with cutting him and eating all that they absolutely got lucky that's similar to the Hershel Walker trade, sometimes you just luck out...

That was not strategic you can bootlick the Eagles all you want I get tired of hearing about it they make mistakes just like anyone else a couple of years back it was coaches they didn't replace them with the right coaching staff they couldn't find a defensive backfield worth assault and last year they got lucky because Huff was really bad and they wasted $17 million but they got lucky on what all the same thing Jerry does the budget players they turned out to be pretty good those budget free agents actually worked out for them.

But Sure, tell me how the Eagles are different,

they've gotten lucky in some spots but I can tell you this why didn't they cut or trade Dallas Goedert he's been about on the same level as Ferguson but Ferguson's on a rookie contract and ever since Dallas got paid, he's had one bad year after another ,and I say bad because he's not living up to his contract and yet he's still on the team...

HMMM isn't that crazy that I can point out players that are making too much money that they overpaid and they're still there don't look at his production the last three seasons ever since he got paid he's been on a decline and yet they didn't cut him that's weird they didn't trade him that's odd... I mean the irony here is you think the Eagles do this every time and I'm telling you they do not..

Ohh also the irony is people rip Dallas for bringing over budget players that they did the same thing and you know that Hillis wide receiver was also on their team for a cup of coffee but when he's on our team for a cup of coffee somehow Jerry gets all the blowback but yet every team has these players and maybe y'all don't get the concept the bottom of the roster turning at least thirty players they're very similar on all teams.. they call it depth and role payers...


So , I hope you can get that leather taste from all the boot licking off of your mouth and have a better day because I'm shutting down the theory that they are perfect organization that makes no mistakes..

ohh and then they make mistakes and own up to it no there's a lot of mistakes they made they're not owning up to when you're in a salary cap league and you have holes to fill every year you do not just cut players at a whim you try to get them to work out and sometimes yeah you got to demote them and I think Mazzy's going to be demoted but again you have guys like Mozzy in a second or third role as long as they're on a cheap contract all teams are built that way you do realize with 63 people on the roster there's a whole lot of Mazis on a whole lot of teams....
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all of this drivel to try and deny the reality that the Birds have two rings in the last 7 years while our last one was thirty years ago
 
InPhiltraitor said:
Since your question is framed around confidence, I’d have to say Mazi based on him being the known quantity. Mazi has time to get better but I think his playing potential window is starting to take shape.

Guyton is your unknown which is not a good thing in terms of confidence. The guy came to Dallas with a body and a tool kit filled with techniques he doesn’t really know how to use. He’s had some good reps., but too many reps. that leave you wanting more Edoga and that’s absolutely frightening.

The hope is Guyton has more upside, but until he starts piecing together positive reps., it’s just hope. On the plus side for TG, there’s the typical body maturation between year 1 and 2, and the belief that this coaching staff is better suited to get the best out of the player.
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Mazi is a known Jag at this time so your argument fails; two years and nothing
 
jazzcat22 said:
I have confidence in the new coaching staff having confidence in both of them.
And that should give fans confidence as well.
I feel both will improve.

But it won’t give fans confidence.
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Excapt the few "Enlightened Super-Fans" that feel the need to call out any criticism and actually post about the perceived negativity BEFORE it even happens in almost EVERY single thread they post in.

It's just 2 to 3% though so its not the end of the world
 
shabazz said:
Excapt the few "Enlightened Super-Fans" that feel the need to call out any criticism and actually post about the perceived negativity BEFORE it even happens in almost EVERY single thread they post in.

It's just 2 to 3% though so its not the end of the world
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Like the anti super fans that need to rag on every positive thing that happens, and turn it into a negative EVERY single thread they post.

It is like 20 to 30% so they try to make it the end of the world.
 
Found this scouting report on Guyton after his senior year. Give it a read. To me it reads just like the guy we saw last year. So far this ex-scout nailed it. But watching Guyton last year and reading this article (if you agree with the writer) screams to me that his problems are not entirely, but more so than anything else, a technique issue. Which gets back to what I (well not just me of course) have been saying for a year. We were told before during and after the draft that Guyton wasn't NFL ready and needed more coaching. He should never have been on an NFL field year one because he wasn't ready. Not every draft pick comes into the league ready to play at this level. Hopefully this new group of coaches breaks him down and gives him the coaching he needs starting from a footwork and basic technique perspective and hopefully he is more mature and motivated and "wants it". I think there is a player in there, somewhere.

The writer is Daniel Kelly who was a scout for the Jets for 4 years and a writer for SI.

https://firstroundmock.com/2024/03/tyler-guyton-disappointing-2023-game-film/
 
gtb1943 said:
Mazi is a known Jag at this time so your argument fails; two years and nothing
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Well…it’s not an argument. It’s a matter of knowing what you have in a player.

I believe Mazi showed a little better in year two than year one, but agree in that it’s much less than what you hope to get from a first round selection. A JAG to this point - yes, but there are plenty of “just a guys” playing adjacent to him as well.

My perspective doesn’t fail (not an argument - not that invested) because it is based on a coaching angle. If I’m coaching and I put Mazi in the game, I’m confident I have an idea of what I’m going to get from the player. May not be exactly what I want, but I know what his capabilities are.

Now, if I say, “Tyler, go get ‘em”, right now I have no confidence in what I’m going to get. He may have a shutdown rep. or he could get Dak killed, or get flagged for having a fist full of jersey. And that, my man, does not instill confidence.

Tyler’s potential upside = yes, while current confidence = no.
 
Cowboyny said:
-Mazi Smith had a better 2nd season where he flashed at times, but struggled with consistency. He did miss a good portion of the offseason coming back from injury. Run defense was bad last season as a whole, they also were dead last in red zone D and allowed the most rushing TD's in the entire league. 3rd DC in as many years, but his clock is ticking to make that jump.

-Tyler Guyton was a penalty machine, had 18, the 2nd most in the entire league. Keep in mind, he was in and out of the lineup due to injuries and poor performance. He was one of the main reasons why they were among the worst red zone offenses with drive killing penalties. His play did improve as the season progressed and we have to put it into perspective, Tyler Smith had 15 as a rookie, so there is hope. Also, factor in the switch to Left Tackle, where he played Right Tackle the majority of his college career. It isn't that easy for a young player to make that transition. Tyron Smith played his whole rookie yr as a RT before he made the switch.
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Smith and I dont think its close. Smith actually showed consistent improvement to the point you can project him as an average starter. I think he has just become the forums whipping post. Guyton get healthy DNP's late in the season. Seemed tl confirm reports that he was soft. If a real competition was held, I could see Guyton losing out to Richards
 
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