Who Killed JonBenét?

[NorthoftheRedRiver]

The killer was an adult with a serious mental problem or an infatuated teenage boy. Betcha. Sad deal.

 

[KJJ]

The last program I saw on the Ramsey case said they have the DNA of the killer. If so the case will eventually be solved unless the killer is no longer alive.

 

[Sammy]

The last program I saw on the Ramsey case said they have the DNA of the killer. If so the case will eventually be solved unless the killer is no longer alive.

I hadn't heard that. Last I heard the only unidentified DNA they found was trace "touch" DNA on the underwear which were brand new, never worn before. Some of the investigators bought a few packages of the same brand and found DNA on most of them. I guess from the seamstresses or packagers. I'd love if they had a legitimate identifier!

 

[KJJ]

I hadn't heard that. Last I heard the only unidentified DNA they found was trace "touch" DNA on the underwear which were brand new, never worn before. Some of the investigators bought a few packages of the same brand and found DNA on most of them. I guess from the seamstresses or packagers. I'd love if they had a legitimate identifier!

The DNA I heard about was on the underwear that she was wearing when she was murdered.

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/ho...er-case-of-murder-investigation-evidence/amp/

 

[jnday]

I hadn't heard that. Last I heard the only unidentified DNA they found was trace "touch" DNA on the underwear which were brand new, never worn before. Some of the investigators bought a few packages of the same brand and found DNA on most of them. I guess from the seamstresses or packagers. I'd love if they had a legitimate identifier!

There was DNA under her fingernails too. The DNA is from a male and it does not match any of the DNA from her family or friends of the family that was tested. I really want to believe that the killer was a family member that lived in the house, but this raises some serious doubts. The DNA under her fingernails matched the DNA found in her underwear. This was one of the reasons why the detective that they brought out of retirement to investigate the case quit the investigation. The local law enforcement was so determined to arrest a family member that they ignored a lot of evidence that pointed to an unknown killer. This failed investigation is due to some of the worst police work that I have ever read about.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

There was DNA under her fingernails too. The DNA is from a male and it does not match any of the DNA from her family or friends of the family that was tested. I really want to believe that the killer was a family member that lived in the house, but this raises some serious doubts. The DNA under her fingernails matched the DNA found in her underwear. This was one of the reasons why the detective that they brought out of retirement to investigate the case quit the investigation. The local law enforcement was so determined to arrest a family member that they ignored a lot of evidence that pointed to an unknown killer. This failed investigation is due to some of the worst police work that I have ever read about.

If a member of the family did do it, it was like the worst "hide this murder" plan ever...

Someone (pick a family member) kills the little girl and their plan to evade capture is to:
1. Write the world's longest ransom letter– One chock full of movie references (meaning they would have had to have been clear-headed enough to even think of such things), ambiguity and language ("beheading" the little girl) that I can't conceive of any parent using, even if they did originally kill the child.
2. They live in Colorado. I've visited that neck of the woods, there are mountains everywhere and secluded areas where it would be darned difficult finding the body. But no, they make no attempt whatsoever to get rid of the body.
3. Instead they put or keep the body in the wine cellar and they leave a variety of instruments (the garotte and duct tape (BTW the police never found any source of that duct tape in the home) that evidence could have been left on.
4. And if Burke either did it or knew about it, they get him up in the morning and send him to one of their friends homes–trusting a 9yo not to blab or break-down about the killing of his sister.

 

[jnday]

If a member of the family did do it, it was like the worst "hide this murder" plan ever...

Someone (pick a family member) kills the little girl and their plan to evade capture is to:
1. Write the world's longest ransom letter– One chock full of movie references (meaning they would have had to have been clear-headed enough to even think of such things), ambiguity and language ("beheading" the little girl) that I can't conceive of any parent using, even if they did originally kill the child.
2. They live in Colorado. I've visited that neck of the woods, there are mountains everywhere and secluded areas where it would be darned difficult finding the body. But no, they make no attempt whatsoever to get rid of the body.
3. Instead they put or keep the body in the wine cellar and they leave a variety of instruments (the garotte and duct tape (BTW the police never found any source of that duct tape in the home) that evidence could have been left on.
4. And if Burke either did it or knew about it, they get him up in the morning and send him to one of their friends homes–trusting a 9yo not to blab or break-down about the killing of his sister.

The whole situation is totally insane. I don’t know what to think. What kind of killer would be so comfortable with the situation that they would take the time to find a paper and pen and write that ridiculous ransom note that asked for the exact amount that John received from his bonus check? I don’t see how anybody could drag around and take their time while they was in somebody’s house. I guess I could not be a criminal. I would have been a nervous wreck from being in the house which was the crime scene. Just when I feel convinced that it had to be a family member, I think about the unidentified DNA and the findings that made the detective think that it had to be an intruder. The police screwed this case up more than any case that I have read about. It seems like I wake up every morning and change my mind about who is behind this murder.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The whole situation is totally insane. I don’t know what to think. What kind of killer would be so comfortable with the situation that they would take the time to find a paper and pen and write that ridiculous ransom note that asked for the exact amount that John received from his bonus check? I don’t see how anybody could drag around and take their time while they was in somebody’s house. I guess I could not be a criminal. I would have been a nervous wreck from being in the house which was the crime scene. Just when I feel convinced that it had to be a family member, I think about the unidentified DNA and the findings that made the detective think that it had to be an intruder. The police screwed this case up more than any case that I have read about. It seems like I wake up every morning and change my mind about who is behind this murder.

The $118,000 is one of those facts about the case that makes it so interesting...

On one hand including that number in the ransom note (and having it match John Ramsey's bonus) would seem to indicate one of the immediate family did it. But how stupid would the family member that supposedly wrote be to include an amount that only a few people knew?

I mean it just about paints a member of the immediate family as killer.

Or does it?

John Ramsey has maintained the bonus amount was written on his payment stubs from the business meaning the circle of people that had access to that information was larger than the immediate family. And there was/is one suspect who did work for John's company.

Also, and this fact isn't often talked about but the Ramsey's were sloppy. The house was usually a mess. Could one of John's payment stubs be left out so someone could find it? Maybe.

 

[jnday]

The $118,000 is one of those facts about the case that makes it so interesting...

On one hand including that number in the ransom note (and having it match John Ramsey's bonus) would seem to indicate one of the immediate family did it. But how stupid would the family member that supposedly wrote be to include an amount that only a few people knew?

I mean it just about paints a member of the immediate family as killer.

Or does it?

John Ramsey has maintained the bonus amount was written on his payment stubs from the business meaning the circle of people that had access to that information was larger than the immediate family. And there was/is one suspect who did work for John's company.

Also, and this fact isn't often talked about but the Ramsey's were sloppy. The house was usually a mess. Could one of John's payment stubs be left out so someone could find it? Maybe.

That bonus opens the door for some of John’s coworkers to possibly be involved . Patsy didn’t seem like the type to keep a beat, clean house unless a maid was involved. I would love to know the information from the female detective that claims she knows exactly who committed the crime. There has to be a lot that wasn’t released to the public about this case.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I listened to a podcast with FBI "Mindhunter" John Douglas, who worked on this case.

He said a couple interesting things...

1. There are details about how the child was killed that definitely led him to believe there's no way the parents or brother did it– Way too gruesome for a parent.

2. The Boulder police rotated cops from different areas of the department like narcotics meaning most of the cops working the case did not have a background in working homicides.

3. He said the biggest problem is that the Boulder police worked the case based on theory– And that was the family did it rather than following what the evidence was telling them.

 

[Ranched]

I often wonder IF an intruder committed this horrific crime, how did they get the little girl into the cellar? Why didn't anyone hear anything? How did the intruder enter the house?
(basement window was orchestrated according to evidence)

Whether or not JonBenét was sexually assaulted has been a contentious issue in the case. Early coroner reports noted vaginal injury but no semen. Other reports imply JonBenét may have been abused sexually prior to the day of her murder. Only God knows who killed JonBenét. It may never be solved as so many other crimes.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I often wonder IF an intruder committed this horrific crime, how did they get the little girl into the cellar? Why didn't anyone hear anything? How did the intruder enter the house?
(basement window was orchestrated according to evidence)

Whether or not JonBenét was sexually assaulted has been a contentious issue in the case. Early coroner reports noted vaginal injury but no semen. Other reports imply JonBenét may have been abused sexually prior to the day of her murder. Only God knows who killed JonBenét. It may never be solved as so many other crimes.

Good question on the noise...

This was a 3-floor house. John & Patsy's bedroom was on the 3rd floor. The kids bedroom was on the 2nd. John Douglas, FBI profiler said that with the difference in floor levels between the bedrooms not too mention things like furnace noise someone on the 3rd floor could not easily hear what else was going on in the house.

The paint-brush handle has been suggested as being the tool use to possibly sexually abuse her.

Keep in mind the girl had been taken to the doctor 27 times the prior 3 years... Patsy was a "doctor freak" when it came to the kids. Between that and the fact the sexual abuse cases usually have a "murmur" of abuse going on, that was never and has never been the case with the Ramsey's. Sexual abuse of one or more of the children was never on the radar.

 

[jnday]

Good question on the noise...

This was a 3-floor house. John & Patsy's bedroom was on the 3rd floor. The kids bedroom was on the 2nd. John Douglas, FBI profiler said that with the difference in floor levels between the bedrooms not too mention things like furnace noise someone on the 3rd floor could not easily hear what else was going on in the house.

The paint-brush handle has been suggested as being the tool use to possibly sexually abuse her.

Keep in mind the girl had been taken to the doctor 27 times the prior 3 years... Patsy was a "doctor freak" when it came to the kids. Between that and the fact the sexual abuse cases usually have a "murmur" of abuse going on, that was never and has never been the case with the Ramsey's. Sexual abuse of one or more of the children was never on the radar.

Your post immediately makes me wonder how an intruder would know that the other family members couldn’t hear them due to the construction and design of the house. I still don’t understand how an intruder could keep his cool for such a long period of time while writing a ransom note, finding the materials needed for the murder weapon and killing the child. An intruder would have spent a couple hours looking for all the items needed for writing the ransom note and constructing the weapon. It raises the question, why didn’t the intruder bring anything with them that was needed to commit this murder? Was writing the ransom note a last minute kind of thing? It looks like they would have written the ransom note before entering the home. If it was an intruder that entered the house to commit the crime, he was very unprepared and had no fear that the family was going to catch him. He was not in a hurry and it seems like he had no fear of rummaging through the house and being caught. There is just so many crazy questions about this case.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Your post immediately makes me wonder how an intruder would know that the other family members couldn’t hear them due to the construction and design of the house. I still don’t understand how an intruder could keep his cool for such a long period of time while writing a ransom note, finding the materials needed for the murder weapon and killing the child. An intruder would have spent a couple hours looking for all the items needed for writing the ransom note and constructing the weapon. It raises the question, why didn’t the intruder bring anything with them that was needed to commit this murder? Was writing the ransom note a last minute kind of thing? It looks like they would have written the ransom note before entering the home. If it was an intruder that entered the house to commit the crime, he was very unprepared and had no fear that the family was going to catch him. He was not in a hurry and it seems like he had no fear of rummaging through the house and being caught. There is just so many crazy questions about this case.

You make a lot of good points jnday...

And I agree. I don't think it was a total stranger.

I think if wasn't a family member (and I do not believe that it was) then I think it was someone that had been in that house previously and was somewhat familiar with the family.

Keep in mind there were upwards of 20 keys floating around out there for this house.

Also the family had holiday open-houses where any Tom, Dick or Harry could come through.

But I do think it was someone that was familiar with the family.

 

[Ranched]

Like OJ he's still looking for the real killer.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

There was DNA under her fingernails too. The DNA is from a male and it does not match any of the DNA from her family or friends of the family that was tested. I really want to believe that the killer was a family member that lived in the house, but this raises some serious doubts. The DNA under her fingernails matched the DNA found in her underwear. This was one of the reasons why the detective that they brought out of retirement to investigate the case quit the investigation. The local law enforcement was so determined to arrest a family member that they ignored a lot of evidence that pointed to an unknown killer. This failed investigation is due to some of the worst police work that I have ever read about.

That's interesting. So maybe it was some sicko outside the family who became obsessed with her from her talent shows. If that's the case, however, what explains that ridiculous ransom note?

 

[Flamma]

I believe what she meant was, John knew that she knew it was him who killed his daughter when they were in the cellar on opposite sides of JonBenét's body.

That feShe was afraid of her life at that very moment. The detective was the only cop in the house. This is why she made sure her gun was in reach.

Call it a women's intuition, yes, I too believe he killed his daughter. The little girls body had all the markings of sexual abuse. Bruises that were new & older ones. No one else was in the house. What really gave it away, John Ramsey going to the basement looking for his daughter when the detective was there. Too coincidental. Plus he's going through his mail at the time as if nothing has happened.

My wife did her own little investigation on this. I know, I know, she's retired and this entertained her. But she concluded it was the mother. She even connected the note to the mother. Certain things in that note that no one else has found and connected.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

My wife did her own little investigation on this. I know, I know, she's retired and this entertained her. But she concluded it was the mother. She even connected the note to the mother. Certain things in that note that no one else has found and connected.

If I had to bet on a family member, the mother is the least likely IMO.

 

[Flamma]

If I had to bet on a family member, the mother is the least likely IMO.

I'll ask her again. It might have been just the note she connected to the mother. But it has been awhile so I don't even recall the connection.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'll ask her again. It might have been just the note she connected to the mother. But it has been awhile so I don't even recall the connection.

When they did handwriting analysis Patsy was the only family member who's handwriting kinda/sorta was comparable.

But keep in mind on the scale that professionals use to judge handwriting comparisons her handwriting did not rank very high on the scale... So while it was closer than other family members it was still far off from being a match.

The other two issues I have with Patsy writing the note is that I still can't believe any mother would use the term "beheading" in connection to their child.

And then you have the length and content of the note itself...

So, you've just killed your daughter and you have the clear-mindset to write the world's longest ransom letter? And you've cleverly included 4 or 5 movie references?

No... I just don't buy it.

Patsy was a drama-queen but she loved the kid... Jon Benet had been to the doctor 27 freaking times over the previous 3 years!

Also killing the kid with a garrote is brutal. And then you bash her skull in? The garrote itself could kill her, but then then you fracture her skull while/after garroting her?

No... Again I just don't buy Patsy, John or the son doing this.