Why aren't they shopping Ellis?

[fortdick]

I agree with your strategy but you aren't thinking realistically. Teams are not stupid. They know we would be dumping him so they would give us nothing for him. If anything, we would get nothng in return and lose a guy who could have helped us.

Yes, but with Spencer taking the spot next year, can we afford to keep Ellis on the sideline? Ellis can't start next year, because Spencer is a first round pick.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We really need for Spencer to step in and dominate. He is a first round pick and needs to contribute right now, or he is a BIG BUST.

He has had one year to make the position change. He should be another Ware right now. Sitting him behind Ellis, who is really good, but not getting any better, is a waste of a 1st pick.

Next year is Spencer's second season. He either needs to start, or we need to look elsewhere.

not a big-believer in the 3rd year rule I see

 

[Doomsday101]

We really need for Spencer to step in and dominate. He is a first round pick and needs to contribute right now, or he is a BIG BUST.

He has had one year to make the position change. He should be another Ware right now. Sitting him behind Ellis, who is really good, but not getting any better, is a waste of a 1st pick.

Next year is Spencer's second season. He either needs to start, or we need to look elsewhere.

We need Spencer to play good football and improve be it as a starter or coming in on a rotation that is what we need.

 

[fortdick]

not a big-believer in the 3rd year rule I see

Actually, just trying to point out how ridiculous people are. They can apply one standard to Spencer, but not the same standard to Carpenter.

If Spencer does not start next year, then by all the Carp haters out there, he is a huge bust. Despite be given better opportunities than Carp.

I was going to drag it out longer, but got bored.

 

[joseephuss]

Yes, but with Spencer taking the spot next year, can we afford to keep Ellis on the sideline? Ellis can't start next year, because Spencer is a first round pick.

Yes, Dallas can afford to keep Ellis as a back up. He is relatively cheap. He would not be on the sidelines much as a backup anyway. There are plenty of defensive packages where he can see the field. He can move to DT in a 4 man front during obvious passing situations. Worse case he can play some DE in a 3-4 scheme if there is an over abundance of injuries. The guy is worth keeping around.

 

[joseephuss]

Actually, just trying to point out how ridiculous people are. They can apply one standard to Spencer, but not the same standard to Carpenter.

If Spencer does not start next year, then by all the Carp haters out there, he is a huge bust. Despite be given better opportunities than Carp.

I was going to drag it out longer, but got bored.

He has already out played Carp.

 

[fortdick]

He has already out played Carp.

Next year, we can move him inside. He is better suited as an ILB in the 3-4.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes, Dallas can afford to keep Ellis as a back up. He is relatively cheap. He would not be on the sidelines much as a backup anyway. There are plenty of defensive packages where he can see the field. He can move to DT in a 4 man front during obvious passing situations. Worse case he can play some DE in a 3-4 scheme if there is an over abundance of injuries. The guy is worth keeping around.

True and right now there are packages that have Ware, Ellis and Spencer on the field at the same time. Having Ellis in no way hurts the Cowboys nor does it mean Spencer is a bad player or so called bust.

 

[Sarge]

We really need for Spencer to step in and dominate. He is a first round pick and needs to contribute right now, or he is a BIG BUST.

He has had one year to make the position change. He should be another Ware right now. Sitting him behind Ellis, who is really good, but not getting any better, is a waste of a 1st pick.

Next year is Spencer's second season. He either needs to start, or we need to look elsewhere.

Spencer needs to earn his way in and thus far, Ellis has outplayed him. Getting rid of Ellis isn't going to make Spencer play better.

The coaches see these guys practicing and playing. Why would you get rid of Ellis and gamble that Spencer won't be a bust? What IF Spencer is a bust?

What is the downside of holding on to Ellis who had 12.5 sacks this year coming off a horrendous achilles injury?

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I simply fail to see the downside of holding on to Ellis who can be, and is likely to be, a great mentor to Spencer.

 

[fortdick]

Spencer needs to earn his way in and thus far, Ellis has outplayed him. Getting rid of Ellis isn't going to make Spencer play better.

The coaches see these guys practicing and playing. Why would you get rid of Ellis and gamble that Spencer won't be a bust? What IF Spencer is a bust?

What is the downside of holding on to Ellis who had 12.5 sacks this year coming off a horrendous achilles injury?

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I simply fail to see the downside of holding on to Ellis who can be, and is likely to be, a great mentor to Spencer.

Okay, let me put it this way:

This was to point out that all the Carp haters aren't applying the same standard to Spencer. Sure, we need to keep Ellis. Let Spencer rotate in on passing downs.

But to think that Carp is a bust because he isn't starting is stupid. I just wanted to point out that his not taking James spot is as ridiculous as asking Spencver to replace Ellis.

Now, would I be opposed to trading Ellis? No. Would I be opposed to trading Carpenter? No. But the double standard here is sometime ludicrous.

I really wanted about three pages of people telling me how stupid I am, then pointing back to their saying the same things about James/Carp. I just didn't have the patience. There are enough posts on page one to make my point.

 

[Sarge]

Okay, let me put it this way:

This was to point out that all the Carp haters aren't applying the same standard to Spencer. Sure, we need to keep Ellis. Let Spencer rotate in on passing downs.

But to think that Carp is a bust because he isn't starting is stupid. I just wanted to point out that his not taking James spot is as ridiculous as asking Spencver to replace Ellis.

Now, would I be opposed to trading Ellis? No. Would I be opposed to trading Carpenter? No. But the double standard here is sometime ludicrous.

I really wanted about three pages of people telling me how stupid I am, then pointing back to their saying the same things about James/Carp. I just didn't have the patience. There are enough posts on page one to make my point.

Well, that's all well and good but when you say "get rid of (Ellis) him while he has value"..... that leads me to conclude otherwise.

What does 'getting rid of Ellis while he has value', have to do with B. Carpenter?

 

[fortdick]

Well, that's all well and good but when you say "get rid of (Ellis) him while he has value"..... that leads me to conclude otherwise.

What does 'getting rid of Ellis while he has value', have to do with B. Carpenter?

It was my way of starting a discussion about Spencer. I thought it would be too obvious to say that Spencer is a bust if he doesn't start next year as the thread title. Maybe I over estimated folks here.

I would not think less of Spencer if he sat behind Ellis next year than I think of Carpenter. But some folks seem to know everything there is to know based on playing time a first round pick gets.

Just peruse some of the comments and think about Carp when you read them. You will see the double standard.

 

[Sarge]

It was my way of starting a discussion about Spencer. I thought it would be too obvious to say that Spencer is a bust if he doesn't start next year as the thread title. Maybe I over estimated folks here.

I would not think less of Spencer if he sat behind Ellis next year than I think of Carpenter. But some folks seem to know everything there is to know based on playing time a first round pick gets.

Just peruse some of the comments and think about Carp when you read them. You will see the double standard.

That's fine, but when you say things like "Ellis won't repeat this season next year. Once he was figured into the game, most teams were able to handle him. He wasn't the dominating factor Ware was. Maybe Spencer can be", it seems like Bobby Carpenter was nowhere to be found in the thought process.

Carry on..........I think I know what's going on here....

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Umm because you don't shop 12.5 sacks and team leadership... Take a look at New England.

 

[cowboyrock]

Get rid of him while he has value. He had more sacks this year than ever in his career. That was mostly because of Ware, but his value will never be higher. Package him in the deal to Detriot and Let Spencer come in and take over.

You are right on the money my friend. it's time to quit begging Ellis every year.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Umm because you don't shop 12.5 sacks and team leadership... Take a look at New England.

That sums it up. Even if alot of those sacks came as a result of Ellis FINALLY playing with another pass rushing threat on the field as him.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Ellis had 12.5 sacks in about 11 games. Wade wants to sack the QB, so he doesn't want to give up Ellis for probably only a 2nd rounder, who probably won't be as productive as Ellis early on in his career.

When Spencer was drafted, Wade stated that OLB's that play where Spencer does usually take 1-2 years before they are ready to be a full time starter (see Shaun Phillips).

I think the Cowboys are playing the percentages right. They need for Spencer to get better at pass rushing because he's better in coverage and against the run than Ellis. Then they could move Ellis to situational pass rusher.

If they get rid of Ellis, now they are completely relying on Spencer to come through...and not get injured. Not really a smart way to do things.




YAKUZA

 

[Yakuza Rich]

That sums it up. Even if alot of those sacks came as a result of Ellis FINALLY playing with another pass rushing threat on the field as him.

It's partly that, but more like the Cowboys not always having to stop the run first, actually stunting, and putting together some very good blitz packages.

You really have to be a special talent to get double digit sacks and do it straight up the entire time.




YAKUZA

 

[dmq]

Ellis had 12.5 sacks in about 11 games. Wade wants to sack the QB, so he doesn't want to give up Ellis for probably only a 2nd rounder, who probably won't be as productive as Ellis early on in his career.

When Spencer was drafted, Wade stated that OLB's that play where Spencer does usually take 1-2 years before they are ready to be a full time starter (see Shaun Phillips).

I think the Cowboys are playing the percentages right. They need for Spencer to get better at pass rushing because he's better in coverage and against the run than Ellis. Then they could move Ellis to situational pass rusher.

If they get rid of Ellis, now they are completely relying on Spencer to come through...and not get injured. Not really a smart way to do things.




YAKUZA

I agree with what you are saying, but if I could get a 2nd for Ellis.... I would do it.

 

[iceberg]

With the rumor that Spears and Carp are being shopped at the Senior Bowl, why aren' they shopping Ellis around? Even he thinks his time is limited in Dallas. We could package him and get..........what?

If he stays and starts next year, does that mean Spencer is a bust?

how many players have we been through trying to get a 12.5 sack season? the question should be much more why is everyone trying to trade a proven for an unknown?