Why did it take Moore leaving for Dak to get "control" of the offense?

TheMarathonContinues

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I've been reading reports on camp and the receivers seem to be impressing from Tuprin, Tolbert, Moreno-Cropper....I've heard conflicting stuff on Simi heard he's looked better as well.

Then there's talk of Dak taking control of the offense.

Why did it take Kellen Moore to leave for some of these things to happen?
 

817Gill

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I've been reading reports on camp and the receivers seem to be impressing from Tuprin, Tolbert, Moreno-Cropper....I've heard conflicting stuff on Simi heard he's looked better as well.

Then there's talk of Dak taking control of the offense.

Why did it take Kellen Moore to leave for some of these things to happen?
Dak’s skillset seems better suited for WCO principles rather than 5 step drop heavy progression reads.

For me it seems that since Dak came into the league running the Coryell and there was immediate success, they just kept doubling down. I think it’s definitely possible Dak had some control over the previous scheme, the issue was just the nature of the scheme itself.

It’s hard to speculate without knowing exactly what control he’s had in the past and what he has now. But generally, I do think WCO fits his skillset a lot better and let’s him be the point guard as opposed to the shooting guard.

Moore’s scheme should fit Herbert as he’s been a volume passer and has the arm talent. I just don’t think asking your QB to do that much on top of what QB’s already do is a recipe for success unless you have Brady or Mahomes.

Especially with the luck of that Charger franchise, I would not be surprised to see some crazy game scripts and moments from their 2023-24 season.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Dak’s skillset seems better suited for WCO principles rather than 5 step drop heavy progression reads.

For me it seems that since Dak came into the league running the Coryell and there was immediate success, they just kept doubling down. I think it’s definitely possible Dak had some control over the previous scheme, the issue was just the nature of the scheme itself.

It’s hard to speculate without knowing exactly what control he’s had in the past and what he has now. But generally, I do think WCO fits his skillset a lot better and let’s him be the point guard as opposed to the shooting guard.

Moore’s scheme should fit Herbert as he’s been a volume passer and has the arm talent. I just don’t think asking your QB to do that much on top of what QB’s already do is a recipe for success unless you have Brady or Mahomes.

Especially with the luck of that Charger franchise, I would not be surprised to see some crazy game scripts and moments from their 2023-24 season.
Yeah it just seems like we possibly wasted years under Moore though I get it he was a productive OC but they seemed to give him more leeway then I initially thought. This is why you don’t handcuff your head coach. Let him pick his staff.
 

817Gill

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Yeah it just seems like we possibly wasted years under Moore though I get it he was a productive OC but they seemed to give him more leeway then I initially thought. This is why you don’t handcuff your head coach. Let him pick his staff.
Nah makes sense. The biggest blind spot for the franchise the last 8 or so years has been coaching. Quinn fixed the defense and saved the FO’s butt. I’m hoping Mike can be a stabilizer offensively. I think we got about a 2-3 window before Mike gets stale as a playcaller based on how he ended in GB. Let’s hope that’s enough time.
 

Big D

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Because Kellen Moore's philosophy , the Boise State philosophy, is the absence of a traditional football philosophy. The plays he called at times were not bad it was just that at times he seemed clueless about in game situations. It wasn't that he was actually clueless it's that the absence of the football philosophy throws a random play in the mix when sound football philosophy would dictate otherwise. You would think all of these football gurus with their eye tests and their deep knowledge would know that it's been written here and in other publications multiple times. Being obtuse has been the flavor around here for a while.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Nah makes sense. The biggest blind spot for the franchise the last 8 or so years has been coaching. Quinn fixed the defense and saved the FO’s butt. I’m hoping Mike can be a stabilizer offensively. I think we got about a 2-3 window before Mike gets stale as a playcaller based on how he ended in GB. Let’s hope that’s enough time.
Aye I’ll say this….not many more guys left to fire lol. Quinn is untouchable and rightfully so.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Because Kellen Moore's philosophy , the Boise State philosophy, is the absence of a traditional football philosophy. The plays he called at times were not bad it was just that at times he seemed clueless about in game situations. It wasn't that he was actually clueless it's that the absence of the football philosophy throws a random play in the mix when sound football philosophy would dictate otherwise. You would think all of these football gurus with their eye tests and their deep knowledge would know that it's been written here and in other publications multiple times. Being obtuse has been the flavor around here for a while.
Great post. Actually puts things in perspective….your last sentence is on point. Obtuse.
 

MarcusRock

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How are you guys still getting fooled by training camp talk?

This stuff needs to be studied by psychologists.
You rang?

People's minds have been poisoned by Disney to believe that "if you just believe, all your dreams will come true." Therefore, year after year they go into orbit with what they want to come true and then get mad when brought back to Earth by reality. People treat relationships this way too, by the way. Lol.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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You rang?

People's minds have been poisoned by Disney to believe that "if you just believe, all your dreams will come true." Therefore, year after year they go into orbit with what they want to come true and then get mad when brought back to Earth by reality. People treat relationships this way too, by the way. Lol.
A sucker is born every single day.

Jerry has been fooling em for 30 years going now. They fall for the con over and over again thinking it’s going to be different this time.
 

gimmesix

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I've been reading reports on camp and the receivers seem to be impressing from Tuprin, Tolbert, Moreno-Cropper....I've heard conflicting stuff on Simi heard he's looked better as well.

Then there's talk of Dak taking control of the offense.

Why did it take Kellen Moore to leave for some of these things to happen?
The main difference I've read is there seems to be more ability for Dak to alter a play at the line — a check-with-me aspect based on the defensive alignment. In the Garrett/Moore scheme, the receivers had route options based on the alignment of the defense. I think McCarthy wants to essentially eliminate the options so the receiver doesn't zig when Dak expects him to zag. For example, let's say the called play has Lamb running a curl, but Prescott notices when he comes to the line that Lamb is one-on-one with the corner with no safety help and the corner is playing press. Dak then checks Lamb into a go.

This is different than checking from a pass to a run or vice versa or even checking from one pass play to another. It's altering individual responsibilities within a play. (Romo did some of that when they tamped down Garrett's role and made the offense more "Romo-friendly." He would motion for a receiver to run a specific route based on the defensive alignment. However, that control was somewhat limited by the scheme/philosophy.)

I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it. If that's the case, I do like taking the guesswork out for the receivers. If the defensive alignment is right, they just run the prescribed route. If it is wrong, then the route(s) get switched by the quarterback. Obviously, there can be miscommunication or the QB might read the defense wrong, but it should limit route mistakes.

Some coordinators believe that the receivers and quarterback should both read the defense and adjust because that creates more flexibility for getting open, but that also leads to more mistakes if they aren't on the same page. Others believe in giving more control to the QB to move the pieces around if they believe that QB has the ability to properly read the defensive alignment. Less options mean fewer mistakes, but if the QB reads it wrong, it also means the WR won't be open because he's going to run right into the coverage.
 
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LysleE

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Controlling the offense? I’m sure after multiple years in Moore’s system that Dak had the freedom to audible out of a called play as well as having some input into offensive play calling. It’s not like he was being forced to execute the plays called by Moore. With that being said, who knows…maybe Dak was the one changing into the bad play calls..
I’m not worried about the system…the offensive has always been able to score points; it’s been penalties, turnovers and mental mistakes occurring at crucial times that have undermined the offense’s success.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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The main difference I've read is there seems to be more ability for Dak to alter a play at the line — a check-with-me aspect based on the defensive alignment. In the Garrett/Moore scheme, the receivers had route options based on the alignment of the defense. I think McCarthy wants to essentially eliminate the options so the receiver doesn't zig when Dak expects him to zag. For example, let's say the called play has Lamb running a curl, but Prescott notices when he comes to the line that Lamb is one-on-one with the corner with no safety help and the corner is playing press. Dak then checks Lamb into a go.

This is different than checking from a pass to a run or vice versa or even checking from one pass play to another. It's altering individual responsibilities within a play. (Romo did some of that when they tamped down Garrett's role and made the offense more "Romo-friendly." He would motion for a receiver to run a specific route based on the defensive alignment. However, that control was somewhat limited by the scheme/philosophy.)

I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it. If that's the case, I do like taking the guesswork out for the receivers. If the defensive alignment is right, they just run the prescribed route. If it is wrong, then the route(s) get switched by the quarterback. Obviously, there can be miscommunication or the QB might read the defense wrong, but it should limit route mistakes.

Some coordinators believe that the receivers and quarterback should both read the defense and adjust because that creates more flexibility for getting open, but that also leads to more mistakes if they aren't on the same page. Others believe in giving more control to the QB to move the pieces around if they believe that QB has the ability to properly read the defensive alignment. Less options mean fewer mistakes, but if the QB reads it wrong, it also means the WR won't be open because he's going to run right into the coverage.
Good points and yeah I came away thinking the same not sure if I heard it on the radio or from a coach but yeah a big issue they feel like were Dak and the receivers not being on the same page. Whether it was Dak or the receivers....they want to eliminate error and it seems like a big issue hearing from some of the receivers is weren't were they were suppose to be at times.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Controlling the offense? I’m sure after multiple years in Moore’s system that Dak had the freedom to audible out of a called play as well as having some input into offensive play calling. It’s not like he was being forced to execute the plays called by Moore. With that being said, who knows…maybe Dak was the one changing into the bad play calls..
I’m not worried about the system…the offensive has always been able to score points; it’s been penalties, turnovers and mental mistakes occurring at crucial times that have undermined the offense’s success.
He had the ability to audible but from what it looks like now he has the ability to call his own plays or if he sees an edge against the defense he can call his own play. Just listening to The Fan over the last few days its seems he didn't have nearly the freedom I think we thought he had.
 
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