Why dont DB's turn around and look for ball?

Stautner

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juckie said:
95% of the time they would block or intercept it.i dont underatand.

95% of the time huh .......

Do you really think it's that easy?

Let's talk reality here.

DB's are chasing receivers that run anywhere from 4.2 to 4.5 40's, so the first thing is that they can't run with their heads turned because they will lose the receiver.

Next, since the receiver knows the pattern he has the advantage of knowing where the ball is supposed to be, whereas the DB can only watch the receivers moves and try to react as quickly as possible.

It's not as easy to stop on a dime and turn while maintaining the balance to adjust to the flight of the ball once it is seen - especially at those speeds.

Once the ball is in the air, if the DB turns too soon he may miss the receiver adjusting to the flight of the ball and find himself unable to adjust once he picks up the track and trajectory of the pass.

If the DB keeps an eye on the receiver long enough to be comfortable he is in good position between the ball and the reciever, then he may turn too late and the ball will pass by him before he can react.

It's a delicate balance. If everything works perfectly, then the DB can turn and make a play. If he feels he is a tad late, the best he can do is face the receiver, wait for the ball and try to knock it away as it comes in.

Anyone whe thinks this is a simple matter is nuts.
 

Chocolate Lab

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baj1dallas said:
It's pretty simple. If you turn and the ball isn't there, your receiver is wide open and you've blown your coverage. If you don't have deep help, automatic touchdown.
Exactly!

I guess watching on TV, we see the ball coming and it seems obvious for the DB to just turn around and see it, too. But when you are in man coverage, you don't know when the ball is coming, and if you turn your head and take your eyes off the receiver, he can easily break away from you and you're dead.

And that's even more true when there's no pass rush. If a corner has played in a defense with a dependable pass rush for a while, maybe he has a timer in his head where he knows about when the QB might be foreced to throw the ball. But as we all know, that hasn't been the case around here.

This is also why some coaches love zone coverage. Then corners pretty much have the man in front of them and they can see into the backfield at least a little, and make a play on the ball. But in single coverage, it's too risky to do that.

Edit, Stautner (great name BTW) nailed it... But I started my post about 20 minutes ago, before work people interrupted my all-important message board posting. ;)
 

LittleBoyBlue

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juckie said:
95% of the time they would block or intercept it.i dont underatand.

This is an excellent question.... how many balls to Randy Moss would have been intercepted by us.... by any team.... I have seen Moss catch the ball with 3 defenders all close enough to intercept.... drives me crazy...

I would love to hear more insight on this...
 

Stautner

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YoMick said:
This is an excellent question.... how many balls to Randy Moss would have been intercepted by us.... by any team.... I have seen Moss catch the ball with 3 defenders all close enough to intercept.... drives me crazy...

I would love to hear more insight on this...

Wow - did you only read the initial post on this thread? Plenty of insight has been given - read the last few posts before yours.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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Stautner said:
Wow - did you only read the initial post on this thread? Plenty of insight has been given - read the last few posts before yours.

More... More....

yeah I see it..... :)
 

Cbz40

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YoMick said:
This is an excellent question.... how many balls to Randy Moss would have been intercepted by us.... by any team.... I have seen Moss catch the ball with 3 defenders all close enough to intercept.... drives me crazy...

I would love to hear more insight on this...

I agree Sir this is an excellent topic. I would to hear more dialog myself.
 

Stautner

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Cbz40 said:
I agree Sir this is an excellent topic. I would to hear more dialog myself.

Then contribute to the dialog.

Discussion has to be two sided - once it gets down to one side providing a reasonable point of view that no one disputes, what is there to discuss?

As it stands there have been very clear and reasonable answers given to the question posed - perhaps there is nothing left to say.

Unless you have something to add......
 

Deep_Freeze

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Well, nice topic, I wasn't as descritive as I could have been. As a former WR, it is easy for me to see why the DB doesn't turn around, and alot of them have been outlined in this trend already.

It depends on the play and situation as to whether the DB can turn his head. If he thinks he has been beaten, it is easier for him to just try to hit the WR as soon as the ball drops in the WRs hands and try to knock the ball out.

But if you turn around and the ball is like right there on the WR, when you look back, you could actually miss seeing the ball and it goes right by your head. In this case, if the WR catches it, your toast.

The better DBs will actually watch the WRs reactions. This is done by looking at the WRs eyes, and when you see his eyes widen or his arms go up, that means the ball is coming and you can turn for the ball. You can only do this if you have that WR covered well.

One thing about this though, it is something that WRs know. The best, for instance Marvin Harrison, has been said to try to prevent this by not reacting til they have to at the last minute. Young WRs have the tendency to really react big time, and if they run a bad pattern, the DB is at an advantage.

The best reason to keep your eyes on the WR is to prevent a bigger play, you can just make the tackle. This is a passive type of D, but it can be effective with a good pass rush.

Looking back can make you a champ or a chump. It is harder than you realize to be running with a big time WR, and find the ball in the air and to actually see path of the ball. This takes time, that you might not have.

As a WR, a DB that likes to look into the backfield or for the ball is easy to make into a chump. That is why you see so many DBs beat on out and ups. They are looking for the ball. If the WR is worth his salt, he will fake looking for the ball, and of course the QB can pump fake. That DB is toast. But if he played the WR instead of looking for the pass, he could prevent a bigger play.

I know what most of you are thinking about though, but there is more to it than that. You are thinking that he should look back on a fly pattern. As the DB, you have to be really sure that it is a fly pattern in order to turn your head. An experienced WR can make you think it is a fly pattern, then cut for a deep out. That WR could look up for the ball, which makes the DB that looks for the ball look up also, and then the WR can cut to the sideline for a deep out. That is a completion on the sideline, and the DB is lost looking for the ball that is now completed behind his back.

Supreme talents can look back at the ball more often, but they have to have an incredible amount of reaction and recovery speed. Deion could look back, cause he knew he could recover. But if you are trying to find the ball in the air as a DB, you will lose contact with the WR unless you are really talented and fast.

There is alot to this subject, and it is hard to explain in type. Alot of it is feel in the game. Whatever the DB is doing, the WR is watching. The WR has the advantage, cause he knows what the pattern is and where the ball will be. If a guy constantly looks at every ball, the WR will take note of it, and use it against him. This is the main reason you don't want to look back everytime. Do it everytime, and you will be toast for it with a good WR.

I wish they showed all the patterns of WRs during the game, all of this could be seen. Its too bad that most of this goes unseen until the ball is in the WRs hands. So much happened before the reception, you just can't see it on TV. That is the one thing about this, you can see the OL, QB, RB, whatever. But you can't see the WRs on TV, so as a watcher you can think it is easy to look back. Just know there is alot more going on out there than you can see on TV, so don't rush to judgement on that CB.
 

Bob Sacamano

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Stautner said:
95% of the time huh .......

Do you really think it's that easy?

Let's talk reality here.

DB's are chasing receivers that run anywhere from 4.2 to 4.5 40's, so the first thing is that they can't run with their heads turned because they will lose the receiver.

Next, since the receiver knows the pattern he has the advantage of knowing where the ball is supposed to be, whereas the DB can only watch the receivers moves and try to react as quickly as possible.

It's not as easy to stop on a dime and turn while maintaining the balance to adjust to the flight of the ball once it is seen - especially at those speeds.

Once the ball is in the air, if the DB turns too soon he may miss the receiver adjusting to the flight of the ball and find himself unable to adjust once he picks up the track and trajectory of the pass.

If the DB keeps an eye on the receiver long enough to be comfortable he is in good position between the ball and the reciever, then he may turn too late and the ball will pass by him before he can react.

It's a delicate balance. If everything works perfectly, then the DB can turn and make a play. If he feels he is a tad late, the best he can do is face the receiver, wait for the ball and try to knock it away as it comes in.

Anyone whe thinks this is a simple matter is nuts.

Stautner, you are one of the best posters I've seen on here, bravo
 

Chief

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Stautner said:
Then contribute to the dialog.

Discussion has to be two sided - once it gets down to one side providing a reasonable point of view that no one disputes, what is there to discuss?

As it stands there have been very clear and reasonable answers given to the question posed - perhaps there is nothing left to say.

Unless you have something to add......


:eek:

What the heck?

You rarely see someone talk to cbz that way.
 

ravidubey

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Our DB's blew it at the LOS last week as much as in coverage. The biggest thing they can do to disrupt the short, quick pass is to jam the receiver and throw him off his route. Even within 5 yards they have to take care not to draw PI which will happen if the ball is in the air, but letting a big player like Matt Jones get into his pattern forces you to make a play in coverage-- much harder than jamming at the line.

Once in coverage, you have to make the QB pay for throwing the ball-- at least make the deflection and more importantly take the ball away. I'd love to see TNew make a pick that wasn't thrown straight at him-- his confidence should be there by now.
 

Deep_Freeze

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ravidubey said:
Our DB's blew it at the LOS last week as much as in coverage. The biggest thing they can do to disrupt the short, quick pass is to jam the receiver and throw him off his route. Even within 5 yards they have to take care not to draw PI which will happen if the ball is in the air, but letting a big player like Matt Jones get into his pattern forces you to make a play in coverage-- much harder than jamming at the line.

Once in coverage, you have to make the QB pay for throwing the ball-- at least make the deflection and more importantly take the ball away. I'd love to see TNew make a pick that wasn't thrown straight at him-- his confidence should be there by now.

Yeah, but it is hard to bump and run a big WR, though, especially with a small CB. If the WR wins that bump, the CB could all of a sudden be behind him, and is toast.
 

YosemiteSam

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juckie said:
95% of the time they would block or intercept it.i dont underatand.

Cowboys had 9 pass defense against the Jags. Thats pretty damn good!
 

Doomsday101

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Deep_Freeze said:
Yeah, but it is hard to bump and run a big WR, though, especially with a small CB. If the WR wins that bump, the CB could all of a sudden be behind him, and is toast.

Good point. Big physical WR like the CB to come up and try to bump them because they are big enough and strong enough to knock that CB off balance as well. Irvin said he loved guys playing him physical and by watching TO I would say he is the same way.
 

Bob Sacamano

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Deep_Freeze said:
Yeah, but it is hard to bump and run a big WR, though, especially with a small CB. If the WR wins that bump, the CB could all of a sudden be behind him, and is toast.

it's not that hard, bumping is to disrupt the timing of the WR getting into his route, anyway you get in front of them, disrupts that timing, even if the WR stalls for a second, that's a second more your pass-rush has to get to the QB, and most lethal pass-rushing teams only need about 3 or 4 seconds, which we aren't at that level yet, so it would be even more imperative to bump the Wr, no matter his size, once he gets off the line
 

Deep_Freeze

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summerisfunner said:
it's not that hard, bumping is to disrupt the timing of the WR getting into his route, anyway you get in front of them, disrupts that timing, even if the WR stalls for a second, that's a second more your pass-rush has to get to the QB, and most lethal pass-rushing teams only need about 3 or 4 seconds, which we aren't at that level, so it would be a good idea to bump the Wr, no matter his size, once he gets off the line

Well, the disadvantage of bumping by the DB is not only getting beat on the bump, but you are even with the WR after the bump.

In normal coverages, the DB has a cushion to work with. As soon as you bump, there is no cushion, and if that WR is faster or more physical than the CB.......toast. This is why Irvin liked it.
 
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