Why don't the Cowboys ask Carr to take a cut instead of Ware?

[Direwolf63]

Count me in with you, CL.

The reports of Ware's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Ware isn't done. I think his ceiling now is an 8-12 sack guy, perhaps as a situational pass rusher. Still very good. But not $13M good. And that is the problem. He's a $8M good player now, IMO. He appears to disagree, as is his right. We'll see.

As others have said, Carr is still young enough and healthy enough that he can still recover from last year. That's what the Cowboys hope. If not, he's likely gone next year and another hole will be created on defense. Nothing will help Carr and Claiborne more than a consistent pass rush. And that's where Jerry focus should be.

 

[Bee]

I think that they can save some money by cutting ware and in carrs case they dont save any money

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm kind of hoping they move him to FS. I thought Scandrick played his butt off on the outside last year. Get Mo back...And I got a feeling the Webb kid is gonna do a lot of growing up this summer....And he is your quick slot guy. Consider last season his redshirt year.

I guess if Marinelli feels that is the best place for him then they will do that. I agree with you on scandrick and also hope Claiborne gets it going and can remain healthy. As for Webb I have no sense of what he will do, I hope he can develope into a quality player but have not seen that as of yet. He is young and hopefully will learn.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ware isn't done. I think his ceiling now is an 8-12 sack guy, perhaps as a situational pass rusher. Still very good. But not $13M good. And that is the problem. He's a $8M good player now, IMO. He appears to disagree, as is his right. We'll see.

As others have said, Carr is still young enough and healthy enough that he can still recover from last year. That's what the Cowboys hope. If not, he's likely gone next year and another hole will be created on defense. Nothing will help Carr and Claiborne more than a consistent pass rush. And that's where Jerry focus should be.

I fully agree, Without pressure up front you leave the secondary is a bad situation. You give any NFL QB time and they will pick you apart regardless of who is playing in the secondary.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Your joking right? Carr sucks.....And Megatron proved it.

Carr hasn't recovered psychologically ever since that beatdown. The guy held his head down for the rest of the year. Kansas City let him go for a reason....He can't cover!!!!

Get him in the right scheme with a good pass rush and safety help and he is a very good CB.

 

[perrykemp]

You put Carr on the Seahawks he'd be all-pro. It's amazing, what a pass rush and competent safety play can do for a CB.

Dallas had 36 sacks last season, Seattle had 44. Dallas averaged 2.25 sacks per game and Seattle averaged 2.75.

I keep hearing that most/many/all of the ills of the secondary were due to the Cowboy's poor pass rush. I agree the pass rush wasn't great, however, I question whether the half a sack a game delta between let's say the Cowboys and the Seattle defense tells the whole story on why the Cowboys had one of the worst pass defenses in the entire history of the NFL.

I disagree that Carr would be an all-pro in a different setting. That's looking at Cowboys players through the lens of blue-tinted homer glasses to me.

Carr has averaged 2.3 interceptions per season over his 6 year career. He is a solid CB, nothing more. Don't mistake the all-pro contract he was given and assume he is an all-pro talent. He isn't.

 

[Risen Star]

Ware isn't done. I think his ceiling now is an 8-12 sack guy, perhaps as a situational pass rusher. Still very good. But not $13M good. And that is the problem. He's a $8M good player now, IMO. He appears to disagree, as is his right. We'll see.

As others have said, Carr is still young enough and healthy enough that he can still recover from last year. That's what the Cowboys hope. If not, he's likely gone next year and another hole will be created on defense. Nothing will help Carr and Claiborne more than a consistent pass rush. And that's where Jerry focus should be.

You're talking to the wrong guy. In my mind, a CB can never justify Carr's contract. You'd have to be an impact player to do that. Make others around you better. Cornerbacks don't do that.

It's the same with Claiborne. He'll never justify the 6th overall pick and a 2nd rounder.

That was one of the worst offseasons in the Jerry era.

 

[RastaRocket]

Carr was the most solid player on d last year and up til the lions game this year. Plus hes still young. They just need to restructure his contract.

C'mon man.... Jason Hatcher or Sean Lee. Carr had some moments, but played much worse after Calvin murdered him.

 

[RastaRocket]

Maybe after this Carr and Claiborne debacle you folks will finally realize you never, ever invest top resources into cornerbacks.

But I'm guessing you'll only believe that if the team believes that. This isn't my first rodeo.

I have definitely learned. I was excited when we got the shiny Claiborne, and even when we signed Carr. I looked at the D-Line of Ware, Hatcher, Ratliff, Spencer on paper and thought they could hold the fort down for another year or two... NOPE! I still think Claiborne and Carr can be good players, but in the salary cap era you have to pick and choose where you invest, and if you have a top tier line you can replace corners on the cheap.

 

[Tobal]

Dallas had 36 sacks last season, Seattle had 44. Dallas averaged 2.25 sacks per game and Seattle averaged 2.75.

I keep hearing that most/many/all of the ills of the secondary were due to the Cowboy's poor pass rush. I agree the pass rush wasn't great, however, I question whether the half a sack a game delta between let's say the Cowboys and the Seattle defense tells the whole story on why the Cowboys had one of the worst pass defenses in the entire history of the NFL.

I disagree that Carr would be an all-pro in a different setting. That's looking at Cowboys players through the lens of blue-tinted homer glasses to me.

Carr has averaged 2.3 interceptions per season over his 6 year career. He is a solid CB, nothing more. Don't mistake the all-pro contract he was given and assume he is an all-pro talent. He isn't.

Well that settles it, the Dallas pass rush wasn't non-existent for huge stretches. We didn't have to move our LB's up and use our safeties to help stop the run... I wouldn't do anything to upgrade the defensive line because we had 36 sacks.... championship!!

 

[jday]

I know the answer is probably both need to take a cut.....

But I find it awfully curious that there is media showdown going on between Ware and the Cowboys.

But you don't here anything about Carr restructuring his deal. If anyone has under performed on his contract it's Carr.

I've read a couple places that the Cowboys don't wanna push anymore money down the road....so if Carr has another bad year..they can cut him next season- and the hit they have to take (dead money) won't be so severe.

My question is....If you have doubt going into a season about a guy...why not cut bait now?

The answer is super simple: Age.

 

[dragon_mikal]

Dallas had 36 sacks last season, Seattle had 44. Dallas averaged 2.25 sacks per game and Seattle averaged 2.75.

I keep hearing that most/many/all of the ills of the secondary were due to the Cowboy's poor pass rush. I agree the pass rush wasn't great, however, I question whether the half a sack a game delta between let's say the Cowboys and the Seattle defense tells the whole story on why the Cowboys had one of the worst pass defenses in the entire history of the NFL.

I disagree that Carr would be an all-pro in a different setting. That's looking at Cowboys players through the lens of blue-tinted homer glasses to me.

Carr has averaged 2.3 interceptions per season over his 6 year career. He is a solid CB, nothing more. Don't mistake the all-pro contract he was given and assume he is an all-pro talent. He isn't.

It isn't about sacks...it's about how much pressure the defensive line can put on a QB consistently. Causing a QB to rush though his progressions or force a bad throw because of pressure can be just as effective as sacking him and has the ability to force turnovers.

I'll take a game of 0 sacks while forcing the opposing QB to run for his life all game long over 4 sacks and an otherwise clean pocket the majority of the game.

 

[khiladi]

Megatron can make any CB look bad.

Carr has probably made as many if not more game changing plays in his two years than any other Cowboy CB in the last 10+.

And he played FS because there was nobody else to play the position at the time.

In addition Carr’s play however you want to judge it isn’t hampered by injuries.

And that game wasn't even Carr in reality. All the break-downs were when they went zone. I saw Carr letting Mega-tron off for the zone multiple times with absolutely nobody there to pick him up. Our whole defense in the passing game seemed to be out of sync, which is why we went back to man.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

And that game wasn't even Carr in reality. All the break-downs were when they went zone. I saw Carr letting Mega-tron off for the zone multiple times with absolutely nobody there to pick him up. Our whole defense in the passing game seemed to be out of sync, which is why we went back to man.

There is a reason why grandpa Kiff was demoted to reading bedtime stories at Training Camp this year.

 

[JsnSA]

Carr's salary is 7.5M.

Ware's salary is 12.25M.

They lose cap space if Carr is cut but gain 7.4M if Ware is cut.

The 12.25M for Ware was just a placeholder to allow the team to add years to his contract and spread out the bonus money to lower the cap hit in previous years. Ware's salary has never been over 6M in previous years including the restructure bonus.

Ware wouldn't really be taking a pay cut if they gave him 6M because that's most he's made previously. He just wouldn't be getting the non guaranteed 12.25M that is called out in the contract.

xwalker is correct. Ware's contract was never made with the intent for him to actually receive that 12.25M pay increase this year. Like with Romo's contract, it was always intended to periodically restructure the contract to push money into later years. That is what Ware was initially talking about at the end of the season when he said he would take less then had to backtrack and say he was talking about a restructure and not actually taking a full pay cut.

The big issue now is that due to Ware's age and his poor performance lat season the Cowboys are not willing to restructure the usual way. You only want to restructure contracts and push money to later years if you are sure you are going to want that player around for those additional years. Since we don't know if Ware can return to form given his age and injuries its looking like an outright pay cut with potential incentives or flat out cutting Ware may be in the Cowboys best interests.

 

[theSHOW]

Up until week 8? So, half the year?

lol you even have his photo on your sig. http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/files/2012/08/Brandon-Carr.jpg

 

[BlindFaith]

Carr's salary is 7.5M.

Ware's salary is 12.25M.

They lose cap space if Carr is cut but gain 7.4M if Ware is cut.

The 12.25M for Ware was just a placeholder to allow the team to add years to his contract and spread out the bonus money to lower the cap hit in previous years. Ware's salary has never been over 6M in previous years including the restructure bonus.

Ware wouldn't really be taking a pay cut if they gave him 6M because that's most he's made previously. He just wouldn't be getting the non guaranteed 12.25M that is called out in the contract.

This is precisely why restructuring contracts and passing the buck to future years is a very dangerous game. I don't think Carr is deserving of half of his current cap hit, which is 12,217,000. (Base of 7,500,000 + Prorated Bonuse of 4,717,000.) But they are stuck with him because of the cap hit he would cause.

 

[xwalker]

This is precisely why restructuring contracts and passing the buck to future years is a very dangerous game. I don't think Carr is deserving of half of his current cap hit, which is 12,217,000. (Base of 7,500,000 + Prorated Bonuse of 4,717,000.) But they are stuck with him because of the cap hit he would cause.

They can free up space to be able to cut Carr if they really wanted to do it. If he absolutely couldn't play, they would pay him 7.5M just to avoid cutting him. He is only 27, played well in 2012 and played well in some games in 2013. His 7.5M salary is not out of line for a mid level starting CB. Putting an accurate grade on his play from 2013 is almost impossible, especially for a fan. The entire defense was a mess. I don't think they would cut him regardless of the cap.

The 12.2M cap hit is not part of the decision on keeping him. The prorated part of that has already been paid. They will only be looking at his value compared to his 7.5M salary.

 

[BlindFaith]

They can free up space to be able to cut Carr if they really wanted to do it. If he absolutely couldn't play, they would pay him 7.5M just to avoid cutting him. He is only 27, played well in 2012 and played well in some games in 2013. His 7.5M salary is not out of line for a mid level starting CB. Putting an accurate grade on his play from 2013 is almost impossible, especially for a fan. The entire defense was a mess. I don't think they would cut him regardless of the cap.

The 12.2M cap hit is not part of the decision on keeping him. The prorated part of that has already been paid. They will only be looking at his value compared to his 7.5M salary.

What are you talking about?

His cap hit for 2014 is 12,217,000. I don't care if he gets another check or not. The only important thing is how much does he count towards the cap. He is not a 12 million a year corner, but that's how he's going to count towards the cap, at least for this year. And that's because he restructured his contract.

 

[xwalker]

What are you talking about?

His cap hit for 2014 is 12,217,000. I don't care if he gets another check or not. The only important thing is how much does he count towards the cap. He is not a 12 million a year corner, but that's how he's going to count towards the cap, at least for this year. And that's because he restructured his contract.

I'm beginning to believe that you don't understand the basics of the salary cap.

The amount over 7.5M is prorated bonus money that has already been paid. If he is cut they save the 7.5M. The 12.217M-7.5M=4.717M amount hits the cap at some point regardless of whether he stays on the team or not. Cutting him or keeping him only affects the 7.5M amount.