Why has BP failed to Win?

[stilltheguru]

i think bp has done a great job turning a 'bottom of the league' franchise and steadily moving it up the ladder. last year was the most excited i have ever been to watch the boys in recent memory, nearly every game was an exciting battle. Now, im ready for playoffs.

thank you.some of these fans forget how it was to be a cowboy fan in 97-2002.damn.now they just wanna criticize everything parcells does.we have improved personnel every year parcells has been here.period

 

[Vintage]

Well, when you take a team that from 1993 to 2001 wasted draft picks....

You get the 2000 era Cowboys.

The fact is, after Jimmy left, we drafted terribly. Teams rely upon their draft picks coming in and eventually taking over for their veterans. We never got that bec. our picks constantly busted out.

Do that for a span of 8 years, and you have a team void of any real talent.

People want to criticise Parcells for that. That is stupidity. It takes years to overcome something like that. Years. You can't do it in one offseason and one draft.

Sure, Parcells hasn't been perfect in the draft....Peterman, Rogers, Johnson....

However, we had a different scout doing the scouting for those players. Secondly, busts will happen.

The difference being, Parcells has added Ware, Newman, Witten, Jones, Barber, Canty, Spears, Reeves, Pettiti, etc...plus this years draft class.

He busted on Peterman, Rogers, and Johnson to date....

That's actually not too bad.

Compared to the 1993-2002 era... where draft success was few and far in between. And then we traded 2 1sts for Galloway.

Poor drafting set us back years. Only now are we beginning to recover.

 

[iceberg]

His obsession with Jerseytalians.

his obsession with his own past. carpenter - link to the past. just gets old.

 

[Doomsday101]

his obsession with his own past. carpenter - link to the past. just gets old.

It would be better if did not know Carpenters dad? Really I don't think the pick has anything to do with that. Most seem to think Dallas would look to the LB spot at 18 and Carpenter was clearly worth taking with the 18th pick and was the best all around LB on the board.

 

[burmafrd]

When looking at players BP tries to take as few risks as possible. THAT is why he picks players that have ties to him. Former players sons, former coaches sons, players, etc. The more you know, the more info you get, the better a decision you can make. BP's busts have been on guys he did not know that well- Rogers being the key example.

 

[burmafrd]

I know this is a little too logical for you, iceberg- but that is why BP has so few busts compared to many coaches.

 

[Qwickdraw]

his obsession with his own past. carpenter - link to the past. just gets old.

That too.

Although it's not ALL bad. (T. Glenn, Bledsoe, A. Glenn)

But it's a different era in the NFL these days.
What worked then won't necessarily work now.

 

[burmafrd]

WRONG. The same plays that worked 10 years ago work today. Good players are good players. The more info you have the better off you are.

 

[iceberg]

WRONG. The same plays that worked 10 years ago work today. Good players are good players. The more info you have the better off you are.

true - but because one type (big italian TE) worked then doesn't mean EVERY big italian TE is going to work again, does it?

because you coached some dude doesn't mean his son will be what his father was.

could be better - sure. but it *could be* just stupid.

 

[burmafrd]

You just don't get it - or you just don't WANT to get it. ITS ABOUT INFORMATION ON THOSE PLAYERS. BP gets more info that way then you can any other way.

 

[Doomsday101]

true - but because one type (big italian TE) worked then doesn't mean EVERY big italian TE is going to work again, does it?

because you coached some dude doesn't mean his son will be what his father was.

could be better - sure. but it *could be* just stupid.

If Carpenter was some scrub and the only reason we drafted him was because of his dad then I would agree but the fact is Carperter was drafted where he should have been and has very good talent.

 

[iceberg]

You just don't get it - or you just don't WANT to get it. ITS ABOUT INFORMATION ON THOSE PLAYERS. BP gets more info that way then you can any other way.

you don't get it, burm - even with all this "info" bill is NOT infallible. you act as if every move he makes is a holy nugget of God and simply cannot be questioned. last i checked, bill is a man much like you and i. he's damn smart at what he does, yes. he's improved this team - to be sure. but if this "information" he has *was* the "holy grail" you seem to make it be, we'd simply never lose. he'd be right 100% of the time.

one thing i learned early on is if you get it right 50% of the time, you're a hero.

so frogive us - those who dare to walk in bills shadow asking "why" and not drinking the kool aid of information they sprew out (and have you ever heard valley ranch ever DOG a player early on in their career? their job is to build 'em up and make themselves look good by taking these players).

if bill's "info" were "spot on" the OL he's drafted would be probowlers by now, not applying for the tidybowl man position. so if you look back and see where bill has made mistakes, you can only draw from that he can and will make them again.

despite all this "info" he has.

 

[iceberg]

If Carpenter was some scrub and the only reason we drafted him was because of his dad then I would agree but the fact is Carperter was drafted where he should have been and has very good talent.

to a degree, i fully agree. you don't see me harp too much on the carpenter pick as it was pretty well expected by many. now on the flipside, if bill was *not* our coach, would we still have taken him? how much of a factor was his being the son of a former player (or coach, yes i forget) factor into this?

then to follow it up with a bavaro clone?

i can buy into the "digging into the past" to a degree. i just think bp does it too much.

 

[iceberg]

You just don't get it - or you just don't WANT to get it. ITS ABOUT INFORMATION ON THOSE PLAYERS. BP gets more info that way then you can any other way.

to reiterate -

he had info on peterman and rogers didn't he? if that alone were enough they'd still be here, huh?

 

[Doomsday101]

to reiterate -

he had info on peterman and rogers didn't he? if that alone were enough they'd still be here, huh?

I thought your arguement was about him knowing certain players or their family. In the case of Peterman and Rogers that is not the case. No coach is going to hit on every draft pick even guys who are highly touted are not a sure thing. Our last winning coach (Jimmy Johnson) drafted 5 RB at Miami and none panned out and the team later had to go to Ricky Williams to fill the void that Johnson could not fill. Bill like any coach is not perfect nor is sports perfect there is a lot of hit miss that takes place across the NFL

 

[Ashwynn]

Cause hes a freak that cant judge any offensive talent maybe. Hes old and senile maybe.

Man, I would give anything for a real coach again.

Tom Landrys gotta be turning over in his grave. I hope to hell he did not watch this past off season. Oh the shame that would bring him.

 

[Doomsday101]

Cause hes a freak that cant judge any offensive talent maybe. Hes old and senile maybe.

Man, I would give anything for a real coach again.

Tom Landrys gotta be turning over in his grave. I hope to hell he did not watch this past off season. Oh the shame that would bring him.

Cowboys in the 80's missed on many draft picks. Landry is my all time favorite coach but even he missed and all those misses in the 80's cost this team.

 

[iceberg]

I thought your arguement was about him knowing certain players or their family. In the case of Peterman and Rogers that is not the case. No coach is going to hit on every draft pick even guys who are highly touted are not a sure thing. Our last winning coach (Jimmy Johnson) drafted 5 RB at Miami and none panned out and the team later had to go to Ricky Williams to fill the void that Johnson could not fill. Bill like any coach is not perfect nor is sports perfect there is a lot of hit miss that takes place across the NFL

sorry doom - (2) different arguments seem to be going on.

1) yes, i do feel bp has an unhealthy facination with his past players and their families. sometimes i think it's great and helps him in his own comfort zone. however, i do feel he sits in that zone too much. THIS IS MY OPINION (there, summerisfunner should be happy now)

2) burmford is trying to say bp has all this "info" on his players so we should shut up and let him make the picks w/o complaint or issue. i think this is watered down hogwash. if this *info* bp has should save him from critisizm, then this *info* that is there on all players led bp to the "perfect pick" for what he's done this year - that *info* is always there. if it's "sure fire" now then it would have been then cause it was "info" and it was bp making the call.

given that bp has made some bad calls on the draft (everyone does - this isn't my gripe) this "info" must not be the shield burmford is trying to make it to be or past picks would be here still.

sorry for the confusion.

 

[Doomsday101]

sorry doom - (2) different arguments seem to be going on.

1) yes, i do feel bp has an unhealthy facination with his past players and their families. sometimes i think it's great and helps him in his own comfort zone. however, i do feel he sits in that zone too much. THIS IS MY OPINION (there, summerisfunner should be happy now)

2) burmford is trying to say bp has all this "info" on his players so we should shut up and let him make the picks w/o complaint or issue. i think this is watered down hogwash. if this *info* bp has should save him from critisizm, then this *info* that is there on all players led bp to the "perfect pick" for what he's done this year - that *info* is always there. if it's "sure fire" now then it would have been then cause it was "info" and it was bp making the call.

given that bp has made some bad calls on the draft (everyone does - this isn't my gripe) this "info" must not be the shield burmford is trying to make it to be or past picks would be here still.

sorry for the confusion.

Bill does have a lot more info on player more than we do as do most coaches in the NFL but picks still fail. There is no perfect way to do things when drafting players. I have seen way too many coaches and GM's go from hero to bum in the eye of fans but the truth is these guys do understand what is going on and what they are doing and in the end there are no risk free picks out there. I also do not think Bill knowing someone is the over all factor when he gets a player be it a rookie or vet. We did not get Glenn just because Bill knew him we got him because he also has very good talent knowing him just give a bit more inside knowledge of the player but the talent is still what Bill was after.

 

[iceberg]

Bill does have a lot more info on player more than we do as do most coaches in the NFL but picks still fail.

this is all i'm saying - this "info" isn't enough to ensure it's the PERFECT pick - and burmford seems to be saying it is, or has the highest % chance to succeed.

given it's all interpretation of info and many other factors that the coaches have zero control over - the coaches are not and can't be expected to be infalliable.

plus i just HATE the argument "they're the coach you're not shut up".

kinda defeats the enture purpose to be on these boards.