Why has BP failed to Win?

[Doomsday101]

this is all i'm saying - this "info" isn't enough to ensure it's the PERFECT pick - and burmford seems to be saying it is, or has the highest % chance to succeed.

given it's all interpretation of info and many other factors that the coaches have zero control over - the coaches are not and can't be expected to be infalliable.

plus i just HATE the argument "they're the coach you're not shut up".

kinda defeats the enture purpose to be on these boards.

I understand what you’re saying. My take has always been if you’re going to hire a coach to run your team then let him run the team as he sees fit. If the Owner or GM is unhappy with the direction the team is going after 4 to 5 year then fire him but in the mean time do not tie his hands. I really do feel very confident that when all is said and done Bill will have this team back at the top and competitive even after he is gone.

 

[burmafrd]

As usual iceberg you are wrong. My WHOLE POINT was about BP using data and info from former players and coaches. That is info YOU CANNOT GET ANY OTHER WAY. AT least with THAT degree of reliability. THAT is why I mentioned Rogers- BP had no former players, coaches, etc info on him and he was WRONG. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand?

 

[iceberg]

As usual iceberg you are wrong. My WHOLE POINT was about BP using data and info from former players and coaches. That is info YOU CANNOT GET ANY OTHER WAY. AT least with THAT degree of reliability. THAT is why I mentioned Rogers- BP had no former players, coaches, etc info on him and he was WRONG. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand?

then by this logic, coaches will only go with familiar names and players, right? and that doesn't work 100% of the time either.

i also don't know why you feel the need to browbeat people to your own point of view and just because someone disagrees with you - THEY must be wrong. why is *that* so hard for *you* to understand?

NOTHING and NO method is 100% accurate - hence we talk about it.

therapy dude. you need to deal with it.

 

[aikemirv]

Did BP overestimate his talent or did he lose the talent he had. The 2004 season went down the drain with Willie Blade and Darren Woodson, and the refusal to sign Mario Edwards.

Don't get me wrong , we were not a contending team with the talent we had in 2003, but had enough talent to be a winning team.

BP made some mistakes in 2004 with the thinking that D Stewart and the CB's opposite Newman could get the job done and he made some a mistake with Jacob Rogers.

In 2005 we just did not have the depth necessary to field a decent Oline when FA went down and Pettiti ended the year playing hurt and that was our downfall.

One more mistake IMO was the release of the kicking coach, after watching NFL network last night and the 95 season and the success of a guy like Boniol just reminded me of the accomplishments of that guy over the past with the Cowboys. He was invaluable!

Nobody's perfect and like someone said Jerry was not open to a complete overhaul the first year, and definately not the second after the 10-6 season.

BP has done a good job with what he started with, a little slower than it might have been if not for the success of the 2003 season, but I will take what he has done over the previous HC and anyone else we could have hired.

 

[iceberg]

I understand what you’re saying. My take has always been if you’re going to hire a coach to run your team then let him run the team as he sees fit. If the Owner or GM is unhappy with the direction the team is going after 4 to 5 year then fire him but in the mean time do not tie his hands. I really do feel very confident that when all is said and done Bill will have this team back at the top and competitive even after he is gone.

i understand and agree with that too, doom. however (always a "however" huh?) if all *we all did* was sit around and chant "GO BILL!" it'd get boring in here. the whole point of a discussion board is to discuss varying opinions, NOT get everyone into the same one.

many fans are happy saying "in bill i trust" and i'm happy for them. i'm just not a "yes fan" where i ditto whatever VR passes down. at work i don't take everything i'm told as 100% fact cause i know better and i speak out where my mind and experience says otherwise.

i tend to think that's what a lot of us do.

i do think we have a better team - yes. i've never said otherwise. but that alone doesn't mean i'm gonna rubberstamp every move with blind fandom.

there'd be no point to talk to other fans to get other opinions if that were the case.

 

[burmafrd]

Iceberg YOU were the one claiming that it made no sense for bp to use those sources of info. AND YOU ARE WRONG.

 

[iceberg]

Did BP overestimate his talent or did he lose the talent he had. The 2004 season went down the drain with Willie Blade and Darren Woodson, and the refusal to sign Mario Edwards.

Don't get me wrong , we were not a contending team with the talent we had in 2003, but had enough talent to be a winning team.

BP made some mistakes in 2004 with the thinking that D Stewart and the CB's opposite Newman could get the job done and he made some a mistake with Jacob Rogers.

In 2005 we just did not have the depth necessary to field a decent Oline when FA went down and Pettiti ended the year playing hurt and that was our downfall.

One more mistake IMO was the release of the kicking coach, after watching NFL network last night and the 95 season and the success of a guy like Boniol just reminded me of the accomplishments of that guy over the past with the Cowboys. He was invaluable!

Nobody's perfect and like someone said Jerry was not open to a complete overhaul the first year, and definately not the second after the 10-6 season.

BP has done a good job with what he started with, a little slower than it might have been if not for the success of the 2003 season, but I will take what he has done over the previous HC and anyone else we could have hired.

while i certainly don't agree across the board - i *do* love the balanced opinion - thanks.

 

[Doomsday101]

i understand and agree with that too, doom. however (always a "however" huh?) if all *we all did* was sit around and chant "GO BILL!" it'd get boring in here. the whole point of a discussion board is to discuss varying opinions, NOT get everyone into the same one.

many fans are happy saying "in bill i trust" and i'm happy for them. i'm just not a "yes fan" where i ditto whatever VR passes down. at work i don't take everything i'm told as 100% fact cause i know better and i speak out where my mind and experience says otherwise.

i tend to think that's what a lot of us do.

i do think we have a better team - yes. i've never said otherwise. but that alone doesn't mean i'm gonna rubberstamp every move with blind fandom.

there'd be no point to talk to other fans to get other opinions if that were the case.

I don't agree with every move either but at the end of the day do I think Bill can get this team turned around and back to the top YES I do.

 

[burmafrd]

Iceberg- really you need to get a grip. Your hold on reality is slipping. I flat out said BP has made mistakes. You are the one crying about how EVERYONE is supposedly buying everything BP is doing.

 

[iceberg]

Iceberg YOU were the one claiming that it made no sense for bp to use those sources of info. AND YOU ARE WRONG.

now you're just being a nipplehead putting words in my mouth and i don't play those games anymore. when you wanna leave puberty behind and talk, lemme know. till then, argue with the mirror.

what i *said* was those sources of info were *not* infallible. you imply that they are. all i said. i'm pretty sick and tired of those who make crap up to fling back at me then ask me to defend crap YOU say, not me.

if you can't understand me, ask. but stop the pre-pubecent foot stomping.

fyi - bumford edited his post - but what i quoted is what i replied to before his *edit*.

 

[lspain1]

Bill Parcells was, and remains, the best choice for HC of the Dallas Cowboys. That does not mean he is perfect, or anywhere near it.

The doubters will continue to spout...but they have no better choice to offer.

 

[iceberg]

Iceberg- really you need to get a grip. Your hold on reality is slipping. I flat out said BP has made mistakes. You are the one crying about how EVERYONE is supposedly buying everything BP is doing.

caught your other BLAST ME AND CALL ME WRONG post before you could edit it, huh?

great - then we agree bp has made mistakes. so what's the problem?

and since i'm not buying into it then it can't be EVERYONE can it?

again, words in my mouth because i guess you just can't understand what i'm saying. i NEVER said *EVERYONE* yet you wanna push what i do say to extremes *I* never put them to.

just wondering - how old are you?

 

[iceberg]

Bill Parcells was, and remains, the best choice for HC of the Dallas Cowboys. That does not mean he is perfect, or anywhere near it.

The doubters will continue to spout...but they have no better choice to offer.

so when bill eventually leaves we're toast?

we won before bill, we'll win after bill. i agree it's hard to find a good coach, i disagree bp is the only option in the world that statements like that tend to imply.

 

[lspain1]

so when bill eventually leaves we're toast?

we won before bill, we'll win after bill. i agree it's hard to find a good coach, i disagree bp is the only option in the world that statements like that tend to imply.

Ice, I admit to being worried about what is going to happen after BP leaves. After Jimmy left, Jerry Jones did not exhibit good judgment in this area for many years. I think he learned his lesson, but I am concerned we will go back to drafting sans strategy and head coaches without testicular fortitude.

I did not say BP was the only option but IMO he remains by far the best one.

 

[burmafrd]

The more data you have the better decision you can make. The best coaches make the best decisions more then not so good coaches. BP prefers to rely on data he can believe- and that is why he goes to his former players and former coaches. I hear lots of crying about BP- but who could Jerry have gotten that was EVEN as good let alone better? He has taken a truly pathetic group of losers and turned them into a contender (mostly by getting players he knows or he has good info on). the professional pessimists like Eddie and Iceberg I really feel sorry for- they must have miserable lives.

 

[Eddie]

so when bill eventually leaves we're toast?

we won before bill, we'll win after bill. i agree it's hard to find a good coach, i disagree bp is the only option in the world that statements like that tend to imply.

I agree. I've realized that BP isn't all that. His accomplishments were 10 years ago ... same as us. He hasn't done much lately.

There are many ways to spin why we haven't been winning, but the bottom line is, we're not winning.

Too often this past season, I saw BP get outcoached. This isn't what I'd expect from a legendary coach.

Too many mistakes ... same old story. We lose. No playoff wins in 9 years ... none in BP's tenure.

When he's gone, we'll be fine.

 

[iceberg]

I agree. I've realized that BP isn't all that. His accomplishments were 10 years ago ... same as us. He hasn't done much lately.

There are many ways to spin why we haven't been winning, but the bottom line is, we're not winning.

Too often this past season, I saw BP get outcoached. This isn't what I'd expect from a legendary coach.

Too many mistakes ... same old story. We lose. No playoff wins in 9 years ... none in BP's tenure.

When he's gone, we'll be fine.

that's not to say he's not helped the team. he has. but much like people that say:

what other OL is out there????? HUH????????
what other QB is out there, huh??????????????
what other coach is out there, huh????????????

seem far more willing to settle than go look and at least try. it's as if to say all our moves are perfect, there were no viable opportunities out there for other options, and these were simply the best we can do at this time.

in this case it may be. but so far the best hasn't been "good enough". i'm sure bill is making what he feels to be the right decisions for the team. *this* i never doubted.

i just doubt they're the right ones for the team. however, since i don't coach and have a glorified past from 10 years ago, my opinions are meaningless to those willing to say "in bill i trust".

that's just the way it goes, i suppose.

 

[iceberg]

Ice, I admit to being worried about what is going to happen after BP leaves. After Jimmy left, Jerry Jones did not exhibit good judgment in this area for many years. I think he learned his lesson, but I am concerned we will go back to drafting sans strategy and head coaches without testicular fortitude.

I did not say BP was the only option but IMO he remains by far the best one.

and i can understand those concerns as history has given us all the need for a pause in this area. i just happen to be one of the minority in this field of thought that thinks we'd be better off getting another coach with a different philosophy and less of a reliance on his past to carry forward.

 

[Doomsday101]

and i can understand those concerns as history has given us all the need for a pause in this area. i just happen to be one of the minority in this field of thought that thinks we'd be better off getting another coach with a different philosophy and less of a reliance on his past to carry forward.

Was Jimmy Johnson wrong when he was bringing in former Miami Hurricanes or other player he had tried recruited when he was at U. of Miami? He knew something about those players, he knew Emmitt Smith because he interviewed him and tried to recruit him. All coaches will use a certain amount of knowledge they have with players.

 

[iceberg]

Was Jimmy Johnson wrong when he was bringing in former Miami Hurricanes or other player he had tried recruited when he was at U. of Miami? He knew something about those players, he knew Emmitt Smith because he interviewed him and tried to recruit him. All coaches will use a certain amount of knowledge they have with players.

now - have i said it's wrong to do it every time? no. so i'm not sure where you're going. i've said he does it to an unhealthy degree.

to use johnson as an example, he did bring in walsh, didn't he? comfort zone and all. BUT did he sit down aikman and never let him play just so he could play "his" boy?

i'm not saying nor have i ever said to NOT use this knowledge. i just think he relies on it too much vs. going out and getting "new" knowledge.

it's out there, he just doesn't look cause it's all new to him. or so it seems to me.