Why should we suspend Roy one game?

[Doomsday101]

I've never seen a player called for roughing the passer unless it's obvious. In fact, it seems like there are an equal number of occassions when a QB is hit long after the play is done and a roughing the passer call isn't called. And you are telling me these defenders don't know what they are doing when they hit a QB long after the play is done? It's completely the same.

I have and seen it this year Ware was blocked into a QB and was flagged for roughing.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

um...i restate once again cause you seem to be intentionally miscontruing what i said.

if you have a problem with the other rules, take 'em up seperately and make a case. otherwise they don't mix and match.

again...

if you have a problem with the other rules, take 'em up seperately and make a case. otherwise they don't mix and match.

the question to me isn't "well what about!!!"

roy was told to stop it more than enough times. he was given a written STOP OR ELSE letter.

he didn't.

the weather today doesn't matter.
children starving in africa doesn't matter.
my lack of a social life (while very unfair also) doesn't matter.
sexual preferences of congressmen in airport restrooms doesn't matter.

IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER (in my bill murray voice of long ago)

he broke the rule after being told to stop it. he gets punished.

if you get pulled over for speeding feel free to tell the cop, then the judge, someone else got murdered, why not bust them, and let me know how far that goes.

i know what you're saying but it's not relevant to roys sitatuation to me. if someone has a roughing the passer foul that's so blantant it gets named after him THEN we're more apples to apples.

I'm not misconstruing anything. You are saying that. You are saying take those other issues individually. The purpose of this punishment is to set a precedent and prevent Roy and other players from continuing this action. I understand that principle. However, that principle is not being applied to other infractions that also cause similar harm. It's defeating the very purpose of why this punishment was executed. This is not world hunger. This is football. They could easily apply the same punishment to a limited number of penalties like 15 yard face masks, and personal foul penalties.

The best response I've received thus far is when others said that Roy is being suspended because he has committed the same infraction on multiple occassions and that other players would receive a similar punishment if they committed say 3 bad facemask penalties. That at least makes sense. But your agument makes no sense. To simply say "take up those issues independently" is a copout in failing to explain why this principle isn't being applied on infractions that cause similar damage.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I have and seen it this year Ware was blocked into a QB and was flagged for roughing.

I'm not denying it happens but let's be honest, most of them are egregious and many more are not even called so I think the rule is fair and would balance out the petty ones if it were given the same type of attention as this horse collar tackle

 

[DeaconBlues]

The rules committee and owners are the ones who approved this rule and the punishment the Commissioners job is to enforce it and that is what he is doing.

Are theses the same rules that fined the Atlanta Falcon players for unauthorized shirts and logos supporting Mike Vick, while ignore the Commander players who had unauthorized shirts and logos supporting ST?

It's never a matter of who approved the rules. It's a matter of how they are applied. In these cases, Fuhrer Goodell.

 

[tyke1doe]

Please explain why we should suspend Roy? I've seen defenders grab a players' facemask from behind and yank their head around which can cause far more damage than doing a horsecollar tackle. Do we suspend players for those attempted tackles,no we assess a penalty on the play and fine those players. That's it. Roy was already fined and the Cowboys lost 15 yards on the play.

I understand the argument the suspension is being used as a deterrant but if that's the case, they need to apply this same type of punishment to bad face mask tackles in addition to horse tackles. You can't selectively suspend one player for a horsetackle.

There are dirty players in the NFL that get away with so much more yet are not suspended for their play on the field.

Two reasons:

1. Roy Williams has been fined previously for the horsecollar tackle.
2. (And more importantly) THE RULE WAS MADE BECAUSE OF ROY WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone is going to be judged more harshly for violating the rule it's going to be Roy Williams who injured three players using this tactic.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I can't understand how some don't get this.
This is not a double standard.

Why didn't the NFL do anything when Bill Romonowski pulled off his teammates' helmet in practice and fractured his orbital bone therebye ending that players' career. Romo didn't get suspended one game for that. If you are going to deter anything why not send a message then?

Not the old point-to-another-bad-action-to-justify-another-bad-action argument.

That incident happened in the past under a different commission.

Second, it didn't happen on the field. It happened in the Broncos (or was it the Raiders) camp and was handled as a private matter. And I'm not familiar with the situation to know whether any charges were filed.

But even if there weren't, these situations are two totally different ones and don't lend themselves to neat point-by-point comparisons.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not denying it happens but let's be honest, most of them are egregious and many more are not even called so I think the rule is fair and would balance out the petty ones if it were given the same type of attention as this horse collar tackle

The horse collar is a habit with Roy and has to be stopped and so the league stepped in. If they felt a player was taking unnecessary shots at a QB constantly then I have no doubt the league would step in.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

You still have to factor in the severity of the infraction to its ability to cause serious injury.

Has a shove in the chest of a QB after the ball is thrown been known to cause serious injury? NO

Has the horsecollar tackling technique been known to cause serious injury? YES

Dude you REALLY need to stop comparing things that aren't similar in nature.

I am factoring that. There are many penalties and infractions I haven't mentioned. But a player who grabs one by the face mask and pulls it can cause major neurological damage.

And a roughing the passer penalty is not limited to a guy shoving a player in the chest. Most of the time, it includes hits which can and has injured players. And who says you have to penalize every roughing the passer type of infraction. I'm fine with punishing the severe hits and not the "love taps" as some of you have implied.

Dude, you REALLY need to stop ignoring that this rule isn't being fairly applied.
Again, I'm all in favor of punishing Roy but when I see a double standard being applied, I will question that.

I fail to see why people like you won't even consider the rule is being applied unfairly especially in regards to one of your own players.

 

[tyke1doe]

Are theses the same rules that fined the Atlanta Falcon players for unauthorized shirts and logos supporting Mike Vick, while ignore the Commander players who had unauthorized shirts and logos supporting ST?

It's never a matter of who approved the rules. It's a matter of how they are applied. In these cases, Fuhrer Goodell.

Please show me a team, league, organization, government, etc. who enforces the rules the same for everyone.

Two can play this game.

 

[tyke1doe]

I am factoring that. There are many penalties and infractions I haven't mentioned. But a player who grabs one by the face mask and pulls it can cause major neurological damage.

And a roughing the passer penalty is not limited to a guy shoving a player in the chest. Most of the time, it includes hits which can and has injured players. And who says you have to penalize every roughing the passer type of infraction. I'm fine with punishing the severe hits and not the "love taps" as some of you have implied.

Dude, you REALLY need to stop ignoring that this rule isn't being fairly applied.
Again, I'm all in favor of punishing Roy but when I see a double standard being applied, I will question that.

I fail to see why people like you won't even consider the rule is being applied unfairly especially in regards to one of your own players.

Just out of curiosity. Which players have repeatedly grabbed face masks similar to Roy's repeated horse collar tackle?

 

[Doomsday101]

Are theses the same rules that fined the Atlanta Falcon players for unauthorized shirts and logos supporting Mike Vick, while ignore the Commander players who had unauthorized shirts and logos supporting ST?

It's never a matter of who approved the rules. It's a matter of how they are applied. In these cases, Fuhrer Goodell.

Who says the league did not approve the skins wearing a shirt to honor Taylor? As for Goodell I think the man is doing a good job trying to clean up this league if you don't then you are clearly entitled to your opinion but I'm glad that the days of the thugs will no longer be tolerated enough is enough so much so that many players went to the league office to take care of this. See some guys are sick of being lumped in with the trash that has entered this league.

 

[iceberg]

I'm not misconstruing anything. You are saying that. You are saying take those other issues individually. The purpose of this punishment is to set a precedent and prevent Roy and other players from continuing this action. I understand that principle. However, that principle is not being applied to other infractions that also cause similar harm. It's defeating the very purpose of why this punishment was executed. This is not world hunger. This is football. They could easily apply the same punishment to a limited number of penalties like 15 yard face masks, and personal foul penalties.

The best response I've received thus far is when others said that Roy is being suspended because he has committed the same infraction on multiple occassions and that other players would receive a similar punishment if they committed say 3 bad facemask penalties. That at least makes sense. But your agument makes no sense. To simply say "take up those issues independently" is a copout in failing to explain why this principle isn't being applied on infractions that cause similar damage.

ok, so we do that. then what, offsides? kicking out of bounds? 3 times in a year you get suspended for a game? pass interference? where would you like it to end?

if you feel we should group up the "harmful" fouls and treat them equally - get over to the NFL office and get after it. why they chose to pinpoint this one i don't know and don't care as much as you seem to. the bottom line is he was told stop it or get suspended.

he didn't.

he was.

they take action where they feel appropriate and that's how things work. if they felt facemask penalties (btw, 5 or 15 yards now? where DOES it end?) were harsh enough to name them after someone and then warn someone IN THE MAIL to stop it or get suspended, then sure - they better get suspended or it's not fair.

you seem to be lashing out for sanity and it's just not there in this instance. not like you seem to want it.

i get it that other penalties are harsh. the time to argue was when he got the letter, not after he did it again. NOW - moving forward, take it up with the NFL and make them set aside specific penalties you can get suspended for - we can keep lobbing on rules and sooner or later between over-protection and high salaries people will stop watching the game then no one will really care. : )

 

[mr.jameswoods]

The horse collar is a habit with Roy and has to be stopped and so the league stepped in. If they felt a player was taking unnecessary shots at a QB constantly then I have no doubt the league would step in.

If the league does that then I'm okay with this suspension. Again, it's not about defending Roy but seeing that players are being treated fairly. That's all I was arguing. It's unfortunate that some people see this in black n white terms. Thanks for at least listening

 

[DeaconBlues]

Please show me a team, league, organization, government, etc. who enforces the rules the same for everyone.

Two can play this game.

Weak response. Up until Fuhrer Goodell, the NFL always treated the teams equally as far as administrative punishments. If one team had uniform "adjustments," then they were fined.

Fuhrer Goodell plays favorites. It no longer matters if a rule is broken, it only matters if Fuhrer is offended.

 

[Doomsday101]

I am factoring that. There are many penalties and infractions I haven't mentioned. But a player who grabs one by the face mask and pulls it can cause major neurological damage.

And a roughing the passer penalty is not limited to a guy shoving a player in the chest. Most of the time, it includes hits which can and has injured players. And who says you have to penalize every roughing the passer type of infraction. I'm fine with punishing the severe hits and not the "love taps" as some of you have implied.

Dude, you REALLY need to stop ignoring that this rule isn't being fairly applied.
Again, I'm all in favor of punishing Roy but when I see a double standard being applied, I will question that.

I fail to see why people like you won't even consider the rule is being applied unfairly especially in regards to one of your own players.

I have no problem with what you are saying and if there was an individual player who the league felt was constantly being called for blatant roughing or constantly grabbing facemask as a means of tackling then yes I would think that player would be punished as Roy has. Right off the top of my head I can't think of one

 

[mr.jameswoods]

ok, so we do that. then what, offsides? kicking out of bounds? 3 times in a year you get suspended for a game? pass interference? where would you like it to end?

The same way the decided the horse tackle should be banned. I think we both know which typye of infractions pose similar harm. It doesn't have to be a perfect rule but it should show some effort was taken to discourage players to avoid infractions that cause major harm; it shouldn't just include the horse collar tackle. If they want to add additional infractions to the rule as time progresses they can. Right now, I don't see any effort being done to try and eliminate similar risky infractions.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Who says the league did not approve the skins wearing a shirt to honor Taylor? As for Goodell I think the man is doing a good job trying to clean up this league if you don't then you are clearly entitled to your opinion but I'm glad that the days of the thugs will no longer be tolerated enough is enough so much so that many players went to the league office to take care of this. See some guys are sick of being lumped in with the trash that has entered this league.

Actually, the Commander players did, when asked about it.

And it apparently matters which thugs and what types of "offenses" are to be penalized. I do not have a problem if Fuhrer Goodell wants to clean up the league - just be even handed about it, and don't use the "for the good of the league" standard to cover non criminal offenses.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Just out of curiosity. Which players have repeatedly grabbed face masks similar to Roy's repeated horse collar tackle?

I don't know of any but I have not looked or researched this. Am I supposed to assume the league has done their homework and would have applied a similar punishment if it occurred?

 

[Doomsday101]

Actually, the Commander players did, when asked about it.

And it apparently matters which thugs and what types of "offenses" are to be penalized. I do not have a problem if Fuhrer Goodell wants to clean up the league - just be even handed about it, and don't use the "for the good of the league" standard to cover non criminal offenses.

I don't think all situations are exactly same I think you take into account the mitigating circumstances and thus I don't think you use the same punishment for every situation.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

As for Goodell I think the man is doing a good job trying to clean up this league if you don't then you are clearly entitled to your opinion but I'm glad that the days of the thugs will no longer be tolerated enough is enough so much so that many players went to the league office to take care of this. See some guys are sick of being lumped in with the trash that has entered this league.

I'm a big fan of Goodell. I appreciate the fact he is trying to clean up the league. At the same time, he has recently shown a penchant for playing favorites. He basically gave Bellichek a tap on the wrist for stealing defensive signals despite punishing Wade Wilson more servely for a far lesser crime. This is why I feel this rule seems a bit fishy.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm a big fan of Goodell. I appreciate the fact he is trying to clean up the league. At the same time, he has recently shown a penchant for playing favorites. He basically gave Bellichek a tap on the wrist for stealing defensive signals despite being warned not to do it. This is why I feel this rule seems a bit fishy.

I wanted to see a stiffer penalty as well but it did cost Bellichek a good amount of cash and the Pats a 1st rd pick. I would have like more but I think that is a bit more than a slap on the wrist.