Why Smith over Constanzo?

The bottom line with all "prospects" is that they are unproven.

For all we know, Costanzo could turn out to be FAR batter than Smith.

My personal take right now is that Smith is worth a top 15 pick and I not so sure that Costanzo is. But none of us will know for a year or two.

Think Vernon Gholson--who was a recent "can't miss" by many pikced I 6th ovderall (i think ). He was nowhere near worthy of that pick or even a a second or third rounder slot.

Drafting is a crap shoot, but the odds are tilted to the higher round players at least making a contribution. Now whether they are worth their draft slots is another story altogether.
 
Smith has extremely long arms, great strength, superb quickness and athleticism in a 6-5, 310 lb. package. He was a productive player on one of the highest profile teams in the country--against big-time college competition. I've read the opinions of two separate talent evaluators who say Smith is (not "can become" or "will be") the best run blocker in the draft. Where the idea has come from that Smith can't start immediately at RT and play well, I have no idea. The fact that he's 20 years old with huge upside is just icing on the cake.
 
VACowboy;3910653 said:
Smith has extremely long arms, great strength, superb quickness and athleticism in a 6-5, 310 lb. package. He was a productive player on one of the highest profile teams in the country--against big-time college competition. I've read the opinions of two separate talent evaluators who say Smith is (not "can become" or "will be") the best run blocker in the draft. Where the idea has come from that Smith can't start immediately at RT and play well, I have no idea. The fact that he's 20 years old with huge upside is just icing on the cake.

Would not be one bit surprised if the Cowboys passed on Smith and were looking at Castonzo or Solder or one of these defensive ends. The more I study these players and the more I hear the whispers the more I believe that they are praying that there are names on that board when its their turn to pick and they will have the option to move down. Just sounds like their board has tight groupings in several positions and if that is the case, then moving down will be an option but they will need to have a name that someone is willing to come get. None of this will happen until we see who the first 8 selections are.
 
proscout;3911847 said:
Would not be one bit surprised if the Cowboys passed on Smith and were looking at Castonzo or Solder or one of these defensive ends. The more I study these players and the more I hear the whispers the more I believe that they are praying that there are names on that board when its their turn to pick and they will have the option to move down. Just sounds like their board has tight groupings in several positions and if that is the case, then moving down will be an option but they will need to have a name that someone is willing to come get. None of this will happen until we see who the first 8 selections are.


proscout,

What would you do?

Would you draft Tyron Smith at 9?

I heard today that the Eagles are a possible trade partner for the Titans, so the Titans can move back form 8. Jake Locker would most likely be their target if they moved that far back. They need DE, QB, and I have heard consistently that they like Amukamara. The Eagles have two pass rushers and two WRs and a QB. The Titans will most likely take Nick Fairley if on the board.

Who would the Eagles be coming up for?

Tyron Smith

Howard Mudd...The Eagles are going away from the wide hips player.

The best RT in the draft who has LT skills to protect Vick's blind side and who can get McCoy in space (outside) and to the second level... The RT with the best combination of athletic ability and power in the draft and who has huge upside... OL is big on the Eagles' list, and Ijalana is their only big visit from the offensive tackles. Hmmm. They were sniffing around all of them at the Senior Bowl.

On the other hand, if Smith, Solder, and Castonzo are rated that close together by the rest of the NFL, the Eagles would stay put. I'm not so sure about that part.

All the talk about Smith's "knee" at this stage in the draft should be a sign that teams want Smith out of that top 10 or to fall into the teens.

I could for sure see Andy Reid jumping up for Tyron Smith. Will it happen? I don't know. First he has to be worried about Dallas at 9.
 
Tyron Smith is too good of a player to clear Cleveland, Dallas, Washington, Minnesota, and Detroit. And Reid is lurking and aggressive, too. If Dallas trades back to the Rams (and arms Sam Bradford in the NFC; not very smart by the way), Tyron Smith is most likely gone.
 
proscout;3911847 said:
Would not be one bit surprised if the Cowboys passed on Smith and were looking at Castonzo or Solder or one of these defensive ends. The more I study these players and the more I hear the whispers the more I believe that they are praying that there are names on that board when its their turn to pick and they will have the option to move down. Just sounds like their board has tight groupings in several positions and if that is the case, then moving down will be an option but they will need to have a name that someone is willing to come get. None of this will happen until we see who the first 8 selections are.


Before you make your choice on whether or not you would pass on Tyron Smith at 9 or if you think the Cowboys should, take a look at Dallas' draft history in rounds 2 and 3. Is eveyone really confident the the Cowboys organization can draft successfully in these rounds? Are you confident? You had a key role in drafting Tra Thomas at number 11.

Here is a list of the Cowboys 2nd and 3rd round picks from 2000-2010: (Repost)

2010:

2-Sean Lee (TBD) Looks promising.

2009:

3-Jason Williams
3-Robert Brewster

The Cowboys had two third round picks, and both of them were busts. Robert "Buster" was cut and passed through waivers and is on the practice squad. Williams was cut.

2008:

2-Martellus Bennett

A great blocker who has big potential as an overall TE, but he is playing behind a future Hall of Fame player. Can he ever reach his true potential behind Witten?

2007:

3-James Marten

At least "Buster" Douglas knocked Mike Tyson out.


2006:

2-Anthony Fasano
3-Jason Hatcher

Fasano couldn't perform the F back role he was drafted for. He was a poor blocker. Importantly, he let a sure TD pass go right though his hands and hit him in the face mask (in the 2007 Divisional playoff debacle). Hatcher never became a starter and was role player, and he appears to be on the way out. He was over drafted. NE wanted him in round 4.

2005:

2-Kevin Burnett

Good cover linebacker but left after four years and never started. His rookie year was a disappointment. He was drafted to play outside, but he was not that type of player. That led to (gulp) Bobby Carpenter in 2006. He wasn't fit for that role, either.

2004:

2- Julius Jones
2- Jacob Rodgers
3- Stephen Peterman

Rodgers had a shoulder injury and should have never been drafted. This was on Parcells. Julius Jones had one good year and fizzled fast. Peterman suffered a bad leg injury his rookie year and couldn't over come it and was released.

2003:

2-Al Johnson
3-Jason Witten

Johnson suffered a bad leg injury and couldn't recover and was released. How Jason Witten lasted that long, I'll never know. It was pure luck. Witten will go to the Hall of Fame some day.

2002:

2-Andre Gurode
3-Derek Ross

Gurode became a multiple pro bowl player at center while the gamble on the character of Ross became a bust.


2001:

2-Quincy Carter
2-Tony Dixon
3- Willie Blade

Carter was over drafted and was cut due to drugs. Dixon was a slow S who was burned over and over and over. Jerry Jones helped build a Super Bowl team in Seattle by giving his first round pick away.

2000:

2-Dwayne Goodrich

Dallas gave their first away for Joey Galloway. Goodrich has a great junior year, but his play drops off big during his senior year. Dallas still takes him in round 2. He suffers a serious injury and ends up in jail.


There were 19 2nd or 3rd round picks. In my opinion, 15 of them were busts. Hatcher and Burnett never became starters despite being picked in rounds 3 and 2 respectively. Burnett is gone, and Hatcher is on the way out. Peterman and Johnson suffered catastrophic leg injuries.

The Cowboys have trouble hitting on one pick in these rounds. I just don't get passing on a blue chip, cornerstone offensive linemen (the best offensive linemen in the draft, Tyron Smith), so you can draft an inferior player in round 1 and get an extra chance to draft the next Robert "Buster".

Only Andre Gurode (2) and Jason Witten (3) have become starters, and they hit big time. Bennett is a solid player but expensive in round 2. Lee (2) has big promise.

Again, as you can see, the Cowboys have trouble hitting on one third rounder, and some want to move down and pick up another third round pick. In fact, the 3rd round has been down right ugly for the Cowboys. It's a house of horrors. Look no further than 2009 to see the results of the two third round picks.

Again, take note of the second round when Dallas just has one pick and see the 2 years that they had two picks (2004 and 2001).

Sean Lee
Martellus Bennett

Anthony Fasano
Kevin Burnett
Julius Jones
Jacob Rodgers
Al Johnson
Andre Gurode
Quincy Carter
Tony Dixon
Dwayne Goodrich

2004 was a year where Dallas had two second round picks. It produced two busts. (Julius Jones and Jacob Rodgers) 2001 was another year that Dallas had two second round picks, and the results were two busts (Carter and Dixon). Look how lonely Andre Gurode, Bennett, and Lee are.

That second round has been ugly too. It's in Freddie Kruger territory. It's a nightmare. Are you sure you want to dip into that round twice?

I'd take the blue chip, cornerstone offensive linemen, Tyron Smith at number 9 and celebrate. If I picked twice in round two, it would be done by moving up from round 3. Choose your poison.

I'm not giving up the best offensive linemen in the draft, so I can get an inferior player in round one and an extra pick of inferior players.

We don't make the choices, but the Cowboys would be wise to look at the names on this list before they do something very stupid.

Tyron Smith gives Dallas B.J. Raiji value at number 9, except the value is in the offensive line.
Felix Jones tallied 1799 all-purpose yards on 202 touches and was the third leading rusher in the playoffs.
 
There are reasons I sit on my couch and watch the Cowboys instead of coaching or scouting for the team, but...

If the Dallas personnel guys really rate Solder "close" enough to Smith that they'd trade Smith for Solder and a 3rd round pick, or even take Solder instead of Smith at #9, I'll be really worried about the team.
 
Most of those that mentioned his age before recently went on about how young he was in a bad way; like his lack of playing time.

Fact is that he is going to have more years in the league at a higher level than Castonso, Solder, Carimi.
 
burmafrd;3911973 said:
Fact is that he is going to have more years in the league at a higher level than Castonso, Solder, Carimi.

That's not a fact at all. That's the opposite of a fact
 
Gaede;3912049 said:
That's not a fact at all. That's the opposite of a fact

It's speculation, but it's based on reasonable enough information to predict a future outcome. Smith is younger, physically superior, and far more upside than any of them. To say otherwise would be saying you are blind or bias.
 
nyc;3912054 said:
It's speculation, but it's based on reasonable enough information to predict a future outcome. Smith is younger, physically superior, and far more upside than any of them. To say otherwise would be saying you are blind or bias.

That's not reasonable at all. You can't predict anything in the NFL. To predict success based on age, athleticism and potential is foolish.
I agree that he is physically superior and has more upside, and we all know he's younger, but to speculate that he'll have the longest, most productive career in the NFL and present that speculation as a fact is biased, blind. And unreasonable
 
Gaede;3912079 said:
That's not reasonable at all. You can't predict anything in the NFL. To predict success based on age, athleticism and potential is foolish.
I agree that he is physically superior and has more upside, and we all know he's younger, but to speculate that he'll have the longest, most productive career in the NFL and present that speculation as a fact is biased, blind. And unreasonable

What? Do you know what an educated guess is? Nobody can predict the future with 100% accuracy, but people can take current information and make an educated guess. (which is what the draft is all about) Nobody with any knowledge of NFL scouting thinks any of the tackles in the draft have more upside than Tyron Smith. If I were a betting man, I would bet BIG TIME Tyron Smith will be the first tackle off the board. Not because I like him, but because HE IS the best OT prospect in the draft. (which happens to be WHY I like him)

I'm not sure you comprehend what the word reasonable means with that post.
 
nyc;3912092 said:
What? Do you know what an educated guess is? Nobody can predict the future with 100% accuracy, but people can take current information and make an educated guess. (which is what the draft is all about) Nobody with any knowledge of NFL scouting thinks any of the tackles in the draft have more upside than Tyron Smith. If I were a betting man, I would bet BIG TIME Tyron Smith will be the first tackle off the board. Not because I like him, but because HE IS the best OT prospect in the draft. (which happens to be WHY I like him)

I'm not sure you comprehend what the word reasonable means with that post.

Sorry, I should've specified that presenting that guess as a fact--as the other poster did--is unreasonable.
 
VACowboy;3911964 said:
There are reasons I sit on my couch and watch the Cowboys instead of coaching or scouting for the team, but...

If the Dallas personnel guys really rate Solder "close" enough to Smith that they'd trade Smith for Solder and a 3rd round pick, or even take Solder instead of Smith at #9, I'll be really worried about the team.

I agree, but bottom line is I dont think they are close on our board.

I think its all dis-information.
 
dbair1967;3912119 said:
I agree, but bottom line is I dont think they are close on our board.

I think its all dis-information.


I don't think they are close, either. I'm not buying it at all. Plus, Mosley was hardly the first guy to start saying that Dallas really liked Tyron Smith. I recall him pushing Prince Amukamara.

No OT in this class has the blend of size, athletic ability, power, and upside that Tyron Smith possesses. Plus, he's the guy with 2 years of RT experience (in a pro style offense). He's ready to plug and play right now and get the job done, imo.

I tried to convince myself that Nate Solder would be a good pick in a trade back, but Solder is no where near the run blocker or pass blocker that Tyron Smith is right now. Solder needs to get stronger. He has problems with power, and for the right side, he lacks strength for the running game. The stronger DEs will over power him if he can't anchor. Plus, he gets beat inside too often. I like his athletic ability and upside, but again, he lacks Tyron Smith's strength, especially Smith's ability to anchor against the bull rush. That is major comparison between the two players right there.

Solder isn't in Tyron Smith's run blocking class, either. Smith is exceptional on the edge and second level, and he can pancake guys inline. He's strong and gets a good push in the running game. Solder played mostly out of a two point stance (shot gun offense) and while he is good on the edge in run blocking and on the second level, he's not strong at the point of attack in the running game.

Castonzo and Carimi don't fit the athletic profile for me, and I hope Dallas takes neither player. I'd rather have Solder over them, because Solder has much more upside. I really like his athleticism. However, Solder needs to get stronger. Can he handle RT his rookie year? Can he handle the bull rush? Is he strong enough in the running game? Smith will play at 20. Solder will play at 23.

Why take Solder when Smith is ready to go and has everything you are looking for at either OT positions? Plus, he is the 20 year old.

So, you can get an extra third round pick or second round pick. It isn't worth it to me, but I'm not the GM. I just hope the ghost of Robert "Buster" makes his appearance in the Cowboys draft room.

Don Banks stated that Tyron Smith seemed like "the right pick at the right value" if Dallas stays put.

Gil Brandt has Smith rated ahead of Watt and Jordan for sure and says that Dallas should take him over those two guys.

The Cowboys have reason to put out disinformation if they want Tyron Smith, because he's the offensive tackle most teams covet first and several are right behind them in the draft order. The Eagles are very aggressive. There is some risk of getting jumped. The 49ers and Titans have all talked trade down. Amukmara is a player that S.F. or Tennessee could move down and target. That could put Tyron Smith in jeopardy for Dallas if either of those teams traded down. Cameron Jordan and J.J. Watt are players that the Titans probably like. I'm pretty sure they like Watt. Jordan has been linked to the 49ers.
 
Solder doesn't have Tyron Smith's strong hand punch, either. I left that key difference out when I compared them.

That is another key contrast in the comparison.

Castonzo does not have Smith's or Solder's athletic ability.

Those three OTs are far from equal or having no major differences.

The Titans are such a wild card if Fairley is off the board. They could trade way down and take Jake Locker. They could trade down a little bit and pick among Prince Amukamara, J.J. Watt, Cameron Jordan, and perhaps Da"Quan Bowers. All those DEs fit the Titans profile for getting bigger at DE. Peter King mentioned Amukamara as a Titans target, and that confirms what I've been hearing for a month. Robert Quinn would probably interest them, because he's in that 270 range.

If you are Dallas, and you are worried about getting jumped for Tyron Smith, you could put out information that you like this player or that player, who you project the team above you to like, so they think twice about moving down. That is plausible. Time will tell what is true or not true.

The 49ers have really done a lot of work on Robert Quinn, and they want a pass rusher. If Quinn and Miller are gone, they will probably look to move down.
 
41gy#;3912711 said:
Solder doesn't have Tyron Smith's strong hand punch, either. I left that key difference out when I compared them.

That is another key contrast in the comparison.

Castonzo does not have Smith's or Solder's athletic ability.

Those three OTs are far from equal or having no major differences.

The Titans are such a wild card if Fairley is off the board. They could trade way down and take Jake Locker. They could trade down a little bit and pick among Prince Amukamara, J.J. Watt, Cameron Jordan, and perhaps Da"Quan Bowers. All those DEs fit the Titans profile for getting bigger at DE. Peter King mentioned Amukamara as a Titans target, and that confirms what I've been hearing for a month. Robert Quinn would probably interest them, because he's in that 270 range.

If you are Dallas, and you are worried about getting jumped for Tyron Smith, you could put out information that you like this player or that player, who you project the team above you to like, so they think twice about moving down. That is plausible. Time will tell what is true or not true.

The 49ers have really done a lot of work on Robert Quinn, and they want a pass rusher. If Quinn and Miller are gone, they will probably look to move down.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Titans drafted Locker at 8. There isn't much room to trade down/margin of error.

If they don't take him, Washington, Minn, Miami, and Seattle would definitely consider him, imo.

I think Locker could end up with the Titans at 8.
 
I'm growing weary of these Boston College offensive tackles getting highly graded simply because they come from Boston College. You can't tell me that Gosder Cherilus, James Marten and Jeremy Trueblood weren't over drafted compared to their true talent level simply because they came from Boston College and carried that "mystique".

I mean, listen to this NFL guy...

"He’s a guy who could come in and play early because of his experience on the college level, playing both spots, and playing at a university that continually puts out good NFL offensive linemen," Titans scouting coordinator Blake Beddingfield said.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...-becomes-big-producer-of-top-line-nfl-linemen

He's basically saying he gives a guy a huge bump based on what color laundry he wore in college. It's ridiuclous. These NFL people are not exactly scientists, and a lot of them use old "football logic" based on a lot of superstition and rules of thumb that may or may not have any real value. I realize BC has put out some good linemen, but are Dan Koppen and Marc Colombo really so great that every player thereafter gets graded on a curve after them, despite all the busts from the same school?
 
InmanRoshi;3912802 said:
I'm growing weary of these Boston College offensive tackles getting highly graded simply because they come from Boston College. You can't tell me that Gosder Cherilus, James Marten and Jeremy Trueblood weren't over drafted compared to their true talent level simply because they came from Boston College and carried that "mystique".

I mean, listen to this NFL guy...



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...-becomes-big-producer-of-top-line-nfl-linemen

He's basically saying he gives a guy a huge bump based on what color laundry he wore in college. It's ridiuclous. These NFL people are not exactly scientists, and a lot of them use old "football logic" based on a lot of superstition and rules of thumb that may or may not have any real value. I realize BC has put out some good linemen, but are Dan Koppen and Marc Colombo really so great that every player thereafter gets graded on a curve after them, despite all the busts from the same school?

Blake is just blowing smoke InmanRoshi! Get with the program! :laugh2:
 

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