why would people be upset w/ Michael Griffin?

[Bob Sacamano]

Ware already had the ability to do those things. Just because he wasn't asked to do them in college didn't mean he couldn't.

just like Griffin's 1.49 10-yard burst, 2.57 20-yard burst, 39 1/2" vertical, 4.10 short-shuttle and 6.6 3-cone drill gives him the ability to play CF

 

[The30YardSlant]

he has the burst and agility to maybe cover well w/ the proper teaching

So do I, but Goodell won't be calling my name when the 22nd pick rolls around

 

[tomson75]

I find that hard to believe when I've witnessed Ware come from being a small-school DE to being able to cover and play the run and pass like an NFL LB

There's a difference...Ware wasn't often asked to cover recievers. If he had been, he probably would have been able to do so in college..he had the ability. Griffin was asked to cover in college, and he's just not that good at it. He's a good SS and an outstanding special teamer...not an outstanding FS prospect IMO.

 

[NoDak Cowboy]

Gotta go with Schmitty on this one.

We won't take him in the first, and hopefully someone takes him before our second pick comes up, to take out all temptation.

This guy is a souped up version of Killa, or a lesser version of Roy. Whichever way you want to look at it.

 

[mschmidt64]

just like Griffin's 1.49 10-yard burst, 2.57 20-yard burst, 39 1/2" vertical, 4.10 short-shuttle and 6.6 3-cone drill gives him the ability to play CF

You can keep insisting that it does.

But you asked why we'd all hate him; the reason is, he's failed at the centerfielder role in college. He's not going to magically start being able to do it against better WRs in the pros.

Some numbers at the combine aren't any kind of proof that he can, anymore than Terrell Suggs' poor combine numbers meant he couldn't rush the QB. Well, his vast body of college work said otherwise.

I don't know how many people you need to tell you that. Or who exactly you think you're convincing. Your rhetoric to start this thread ("I don't understand why you guys wouldn't like this teh awesome safety!!!111one!!") isn't going to work on many of the people who actually watched him.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

There's a difference...Ware wasn't often asked to cover recievers. If he had been, he probably would have been able to do so in college..he had the ability. Griffin was asked to cover in college, and he's just not that good at it. He's a good SS and an outstanding special teamer...not an outstanding FS prospect IMO.

fair enough, but I think w/ time, and his ability, he has the chance to play FS in the Pros

 

[NoDak Cowboy]

just like Griffin's 1.49 10-yard burst, 2.57 20-yard burst, 39 1/2" vertical, 4.10 short-shuttle and 6.6 3-cone drill gives him the ability to play CF

Don't get all wrapped up in the dork olympics. It's just a small evaluation tool. Form your judgement from what you've seen in live action during games that count.

Remember, Mike Mamula was off the charts at the combine, too.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You can keep insisting that it does.

you can keep insisting that it doesn't either, time will tell is all I'm saying

But you asked why we'd all hate him; the reason is, he's failed at the centerfielder role in college. He's not going to magically start being able to do it against better WRs in the pros.

there's no magically, there's NFL coaching and maturity though

Some numbers at the combine aren't any kind of proof that he can, anymore than Terrell Suggs' poor combine numbers meant he couldn't rush the QB. Well, his vast body of college work said otherwise.

that is a good point, we'll just have to wait and see I guess

 

[tomson75]

fair enough, but I think w/ time, and his ability, he has the chance to play FS in the Pros

I think he will play FS in the pros...I just think he'd be a better fit with another guy with his skillset. Two tweener SS/FS types...like many teams are running these days.

We have Williams, whom clearly isn't a "tweener"...he's damn near a LB. I just think we need a real deal FS centerfielder...and Ed Reed type. Aguy that can play corner in a pinch is what I'd be looking for if I'm part of the Jones/Ireland/Csiskowski(sp?)/Phillips braintrust.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Don't get all wrapped up in the dork olympics. It's just a small evaluation tool. Form your judgement from what you've seen in live action during games that count.

Remember, Mike Mamula was off the charts at the combine, too.

so I'm to say Chris Leak is going to QB a Super Bowl team because he won a championship in college? Timmy Chang is going to bust out w/ a 3,000 yard passing season because he's the NCAA DivI's all-time leading passer?

maybe I'm not putting much stock in his career thus far like I should, so w/ saying that, yeah, I agree, right now Griffin is not the greatest coverage safety, I'm just intrigued w/ his skill-set is all

 

[mschmidt64]

you can keep insisting that it doesn't either, time will tell is all I'm saying

We don't need time to tell.

We already know. You are the one who likes the player and so wants to discount what we're telling you.

He can line up at FS in name and not get totally exposed, but he's not the centerfielder we need.

That's all there is to it.

there's not magically, there's NFL coaching and maturity though

The tiger who changes his stripes is rare. If coaching could be a cure all for deficiencies, then why isn't Roy Williams getting better at coverage instead of worse?

Because he can't. do. it. Period.

Griffin can't either. He might be better in coverage than Roy, but he will never, ever in a million years be a Eugene Wilson type FS.

 

[Biggems]

Bob......I am a UT homer here...and I say no to him...

If you notice I have talked up Blalock, Ross, and Robison.....but I have not even brought up Griffin. if we are gonna draft a FS, I want Eric Weddle. He is a ballhawk. He creates turnovers and that is what we need in a FS.

IMO, Marcus has more potential to be a successful coverage safety in the NFL than Michael....

 

[NoDak Cowboy]

so I'm to say Chris Leak is going to QB a Super Bowl team because he won a championship in college? Timmy Chang is going to bust out w/ a 3,000 yard passing season because he's the NCAA DivI's all-time leading passer?

Right. Now you're just trying to be argumentative. If you want to be that obtuse, by all means. Carry on.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We don't need time to tell.

We already know. You are the one who likes the player and so wants to discount what we're telling you.

He can line up at FS in name and not get totally exposed, but he's not the centerfielder we need.

That's all there is to it.

dude, get off that hat already, it's called a discussion, which is why I didn't respond to your 1st version of this little Dr. Phil nonsense

The tiger who changes his stripes is rare. If coaching could be a cure all for deficiencies, then why isn't Roy Williams getting better at coverage instead of worse?

Because he can't. do. it. Period.

Griffin can't either. He might be better in coverage than Roy, but he will never, ever in a million years be a Eugene Wilson type FS.

Roy Williams is getting worse in coverage? nice way to over-exaggerate to get your point across, I get it already

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Right. Now you're just trying to be argumentative. If you want to be that obtuse, by all means. Carry on.

when am I not being argumentative?

btw, the 2nd paragraph you omitted because you had to get self-righteous like I give a crap was pretty non-argumentative

 

[Roughneck]

Roy Williams is getting worse in coverage? nice way to overexaggerate to get your point across, I get it already

I dont think he is overexaggerating at all. Roy has declined in his covering ability every year since he's been in the league. Next year he'll be a year older and a step slower, so it's only natural to think that he will become even worse in coverage or, at the very least, that he won't get any better.

 

[cobra]

Not a ballhawk, not a centerfielder, not a guy who can line up 1-on-1 with WRs, and not a guy who can cover a lot of ground to cover Roy's arse.

Something isn't right. I keep seeing what our board members say, but...

nfldraftcountdown (already posted): "Griffin is exceptional in coverage."

Gil Brandt: http://nfl.com/draft/analysis/expert/brandt/s

Michael Griffin was the Longhorns' leading tackler the past two seasons.[SIZE=-3] [/SIZE]2. Michael Griffin, Texas (5-11¾, 202, 4.48)
Griffin had a complete workout at the Combine, where he recorded a 38-inch vertical jump, 10-foot long jump, 4.10 short shuttle, 6.60 three-cone drill and 16 bench presses. At the Texas Pro Day on March 21, he ran 4.43 in the 40-yard dash. Griffin played running back and defensive back in high school. He ran for 2,127 yards and 25 touchdowns and earned honors statewide on both offense and defense. Griffin played as a true freshman at Texas, starting two games, and went on to start 25 games over the last two years. He had over 120 tackles each season and also blocked four kicks in 2005. Griffin has very good athletic ability and has good ball skills. He can play either safety position and has kick-blocking ability. He needs to tackle better but has talent. He could be a cornerback prospect and will be a very good special teams player. He has great character and will play a long time at a high level.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=8763
Griffin is effective against the pass.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/michael_griffin.html
In pass coverage, he has the athleticism to cover and ball skills to make plays on the ball.

http://www.draftboardinsider.com/position/S/griffin-m.html
He’s surprisingly smooth in coverage and delivers a wallop. Very fast, particularly field speed, and goes after anyone with a football with a total lack of respect. Probably the best all around safety in this draft, being able to drop in coverage with great technique and speed. Very versatile, Griffin looks to be able to play either safety spot in the NFL and even some corner if need be.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2424857
Explosive safety who is an intimidating force in centerfield. Diagnoses the action, fires up the field in run defense and aggressively lays his shoulders into ball handlers. Displays outstanding sideline-to-sideline range and gets to the flanks to help cornerbacks. Shows a burst of speed and ability to recover.

But here on Cowboyszone, we got:

"Can't cover a lick."
"Can't cover a lot of ground."
"No ball skills."
"Can't be a centerfielder."
"Worse than Roy in coverage."

I think I have identified the source of the discrepancy here. It's not that our fans are that much wiser than the professionals. It's that the people here have... what's the words... agendas about who they want so they talk down people they don't want and say stupid stuff like you have seen here.

Now I don't want Griffin at #22. But I think it is absolutely asinine for you guys to be making crap up about him merely because you want someone else. Quit talking out of your arses.


(PS-whoever the guy is with Wickard v. Filburn in your sig line... ditch it. Most people won't get it and to those of us who do, you look ignorant for having it in there.)

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I dont think he is overexaggerating at all. Roy has declined in his covering ability every year since he's been in the league. Next year he'll be a year older and a step slower, so it's only natural to think that he will become even worse in coverage or, at the very least, that he won't get any better.

yet his INTs and pass-deflections went up last year, hmm

LOL at Roy WIlliams getting a step-slower...at 27 years of age! wow, if you say so

 

[mschmidt64]

dude, get off that hat already, it's called a discussion, which is why I didn't respond to your 1st version of this little Dr. Phil nonsense

You just admitted you're being argumentative.

I'm not going to play by your game and jump through the little hoops debating why or why not Griffin can't be a coverage safety. I already know full well whatever rational reason was given you wouldn't have accepted.

So I'm not going to try to continue to come up with good reasons just to have you premeditatively shoot them down.

He can't do it.

It's up to you to accept that or not, but if you don't, you're in the minority and nobody has to accomodate your view.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Per FWST Charean Williams

Mrs. Williams - I have followed you for a while and really respect your opinion. But why are you pushing Michael Griffin so hard. Griffin did not play well against the pass, that much was apparent to anyone who watched UT football. Nelson and Merriweather are both MUCH better in coverage. Isnt that what we need at free with "no cover" Roy back there?
Matt Deen, Fort Worth, TX 4/22/07

Matt, I'm not pushing him. I'm just basing everything on what I'm hearing. Meriweather's off-field problems, including the on-field incident where he stomped on the heads of Florida International players, are troubling. He also had a poor season after back-to-back good seasons, which raises another red flag. He might be a great pro. He certainly has the talent. Nelson had some academic problems, but he is very talented and multi-dimensional. Griffin is the best special teams player in the draft, which is a big reason he could (should?)go before Nelson and Meriweather. Unless the Cowboys are spreading mis-information, which is highly possible, I think they have more interest in Griffin than the other two if they decide to take a safety at 22.
Charean Williams 4/23/07

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