why would people be upset w/ Michael Griffin?

[jobberone]

The FO has many people on the front lines evaluating people. We get the vast majority of our info from the internet.

Having said I only know what I read third hand, I think Griffin is more a cover two guy. There are safeties in his tier of players better at man coverage. There certainly are CBs that play man better than he does.

Landry, Nelson and Meriweather are really about equally talented at safety despite the current draft order. If all of them are gone and we're drafting a safety Griffin is a good pick at 22. I think there are better DBs to pick at 22 and I would personally be upset if we took Griffin. But it's not a terrible pick at 22. JMO.

 

[T-New41]

Bob......I am a UT homer here...and I say no to him...



IMO, Marcus has more potential to be a successful coverage safety in the NFL than Michael....

Did you even watch UT play? Marcus was absolutely horrible. Absolutely. Michael had to cover for Marcus so many times it wasn't even funny. I think a lot of people just saw Griffin getting burned and assumed it was Michael, when it was really Marcus. And at least Michael can tackle, Marcus whiffed on a lot of tackles last year too. Marcus was by far the worst defender on the field for UT last year. Michael is infinitely superior to Marcus as a safety prospect.

That said, I wouldn't want Michael in the 1st. The guys I would be happy w/ would be Spencer, Jarrett, Meachem, Houston, Ross, or Revis.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

you're in the minority and nobody has to accomodate your view.

really?...

Something isn't right. I keep seeing what our board members say, but...

nfldraftcountdown (already posted): "Griffin is exceptional in coverage."

Gil Brandt: http://nfl.com/draft/analysis/expert/brandt/s

Michael Griffin was the Longhorns' leading tackler the past two seasons.2. Michael Griffin, Texas (5-11¾, 202, 4.48)
Griffin had a complete workout at the Combine, where he recorded a 38-inch vertical jump, 10-foot long jump, 4.10 short shuttle, 6.60 three-cone drill and 16 bench presses. At the Texas Pro Day on March 21, he ran 4.43 in the 40-yard dash. Griffin played running back and defensive back in high school. He ran for 2,127 yards and 25 touchdowns and earned honors statewide on both offense and defense. Griffin played as a true freshman at Texas, starting two games, and went on to start 25 games over the last two years. He had over 120 tackles each season and also blocked four kicks in 2005. Griffin has very good athletic ability and has good ball skills. He can play either safety position and has kick-blocking ability. He needs to tackle better but has talent. He could be a cornerback prospect and will be a very good special teams player. He has great character and will play a long time at a high level.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=8763
Griffin is effective against the pass.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/michael_griffin.html
In pass coverage, he has the athleticism to cover and ball skills to make plays on the ball.

http://www.draftboardinsider.com/position/S/griffin-m.html
He’s surprisingly smooth in coverage and delivers a wallop. Very fast, particularly field speed, and goes after anyone with a football with a total lack of respect. Probably the best all around safety in this draft, being able to drop in coverage with great technique and speed. Very versatile, Griffin looks to be able to play either safety spot in the NFL and even some corner if need be.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2424857
Explosive safety who is an intimidating force in centerfield. Diagnoses the action, fires up the field in run defense and aggressively lays his shoulders into ball handlers. Displays outstanding sideline-to-sideline range and gets to the flanks to help cornerbacks. Shows a burst of speed and ability to recover.

But here on Cowboyszone, we got:

"Can't cover a lick."
"Can't cover a lot of ground."
"No ball skills."
"Can't be a centerfielder."
"Worse than Roy in coverage."

I think I have identified the source of the discrepancy here. It's not that our fans are that much wiser than the professionals. It's that the people here have... what's the words... agendas about who they want so they talk down people they don't want and say stupid stuff like you have seen here.

Now I don't want Griffin at #22. But I think it is absolutely asinine for you guys to be making crap up about him merely because you want someone else. Quit talking out of your arses.


(PS-whoever the guy is with Wickard v. Filburn in your sig line... ditch it. Most people won't get it and to those of us who do, you look ignorant for having it in there.)

 

[NoDak Cowboy]

btw, the 2nd paragraph you omitted because you had to get self-righteous like I give a crap was pretty non-argumentative

What, I offended you because I didn't address the other paragraph? :laugh2:

I didn't feel a need to address it, because it looked like you were finally using a modicum of common sense concerning the matter of Griffin at FS.

The argumentitive comment was directed at your little foray into complete and utter stupididty. If you honestly believe your comments about Leak and Chang, then hey. No sense wasting any more time trying to discuss things with you further. And if you don't believe them, then you were just throwing crap against the wall, causing trouble.

Either way, I see you've earned your board status.

 

[mschmidt64]

I think I have identified the source of the discrepancy here. It's not that our fans are that much wiser than the professionals. It's that the people here have... what's the words... agendas about who they want so they talk down people they don't want and say stupid stuff like you have seen here.

Since when is Scott Wright a professional? Does he work for an NFL team that I missed?

You can find just as many resources that say he has bad instincts, gets caught flat-footed, makes mistakes in deep zones, gets caught out of position, etc.

Combine that with what I saw on the field, and you have an answer.

(PS-whoever the guy is with Wickard v. Filburn in your sig line... ditch it. Most people won't get it and to those of us who do, you look ignorant for having it in there.)

I'm ready to expose your laughable hypocrisy any time you wish on the subject.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What, I offended you because I didn't address the other paragraph? :laugh2:

not offended, I'm not the one getting self-righteous

I didn't feel a need to address it, because it looked like you were finally using a modicum of common sense concerning the matter of Griffin at FS.

wow, and you call ME argumentative

The argumentitive comment was directed at your little foray into complete and utter stupididty. If you honestly believe your comments about Leak and Chang, then hey. No sense wasting any more time trying to discuss things with you further. And if you don't believe them, then you were just throwing crap against the wall, causing trouble.

Either way, I see you've earned your board status.

so basing a pro propspect's chances in the NFL on his college career isn't stupid? that's what I was getting at w/ my Leak and Chang comments, college production basically amounts to crap in the NFL

 

[mschmidt64]

really?...

Yeah, really.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You can find just as many resources that say he has bad instincts, gets caught flat-footed, makes mistakes in deep zones, gets caught out of position, etc.

well then, produce them

Combine that with what I saw on the field, and you have an answer.

and you scout for..who? again

 

[masomenos]

"Griffin has very good athletic ability and has good ball skills. He can play either safety position and has kick-blocking ability. He needs to tackle better but has talent. He could be a cornerback prospect and will be a very good special teams player. He has great character and will play a long time at a high level." Gil Brandt, NFL.com

"hows the ability to change directions quickly, explodes out of cuts and has good short-area man-to-man cover skills. Possesses good top-end speed, has long arms and can cover the deep middle of the field when he makes the right reads. Is tall, has god leaping ability and flashes the ability to catch the ball at its highest point. Possesses decent ball skills and is capable of making some big plays in coverage...Griffin is a relentless run supporter, he displays very good range in deep coverage and he is one of the best special team's players in the 2007 draft class. If coached properly, Griffin has the physical tools to emerge as an upper-echelon starting safety in the NFL." Scouts Inc, ESPN.com

"Has the burst coming out of his cuts to be quite effective covering the speedy receivers in one-on-one situations...Alert to the quarterback's pump fakes and play-action when operating in the zone...Is often around the ball due to his ability to quickly locate it and get in position to make the play...Has the loose hips, quick feet and fluid turning motion to come out of his pedal and stay tight with the receiver throughout the route...Can stay stride for stride with the receiver down field and has the recovery burst and speed to get back into the play if he over-pursues...Shows good knee bend and hip snap to turn and run with ease, keeping his balance through good weight distribution coming out of his breaks...Closes in a hurry and works hard to keep plays in front of him...Effective at either going for the ball or delivering a crunching hit on the receiver to separate the opponent from the play...Gets a very good break on the pass and has the natural hands and vision to look the ball in over his outside shoulder...[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Can run the field and has the speed to play the two-deep...Has the flexibility and ball adjustment skills to compete for the jump balls and won't hesitate to bang opponents around to get position to make the play...Looks the ball in nicely and is not the type who lets the ball absorb into his body, showing the extension skills to catch outside the frame..." NFLDraftScout.com

Yeah...I think Griffin would be a perfect safety for us. People say that he's a bad choice because of Texas' poor pass defense last year but the truth is that he was out of position a lot because of the defensive scheme. He was terrific in man coverage though, there's no arguing that. When looking at Griffin's combine times in the 10yard, 20yard, 3 cone and 20 yd shuttle you can get an idea of his "to sideline" speed which is better any other safety prospect in the draft. I, for one, would be perfectly fine with drafting Griffin and I would encourage people to look beyond the fact that Texas had a poor pass defense.


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[cobra]

You can find just as many resources that say he has bad instincts, gets caught flat-footed, makes mistakes in deep zones, gets caught out of position, etc..

How about find 3 and back that up?

I'm ready to expose your laughable hypocrisy any time you wish on the subject.

Eh? How am I hypocritcal based on what I said? Do you even think before you type? Or do you just spew out superficial nonsense, such as your Wickard comment?

Two quick things: 1. When you cite things, it is customary to put the date after the reporter citation. It's basic legal practice that any attorrney knows. So, it should be: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942). I don't think I have ever seen anyone cite something without putting a date. It's fundamental. 2. What do you suppose would happen if the Court were to explicitly overturn Wickard? You sound like some kid who heard something in a class and understood the issue only superficially and decided to stick that in his profile to look smart.

 

[mschmidt64]

well then, produce them

No.

Try buying a magazine and reading them. Or watching a few Texas games.

I'm secure in my opinion and I'm not going to waste my time scouring the internet for Joe Blow amateur resources when it won't convince you anyway.

I already know, like many of the people here, that Griffin is not your centerfielder type FS.

If he can play the position, he can play it like Hamlin does. Adequately, but not the true high range FS we want to free up Roy. He makes too many mistakes and simply can't do it. He's better with the play in front of him like Roy is.

Combine that with the fact that there are at least 22 players better than him in this draft, and it's easy to see why we don't want him.

 

[cobra]

No.

Try buying a magazine and reading them. Or watching a few Texas games.

I'm secure in my opinion and I'm not going to waste my time scouring the internet for Joe Blow amateur resources when it won't convince you anyway.

So you have none. That's what I thought.

And as for your comment that my links are all amaeturs, I would have thought that a Cowboys fan would feel somewhat embarrassed by calling Gil Brandt an amateur scout.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No.

what a way to back up your argument, facts are thrown in your face and you can't even do as much as swat them away, you're getting peppered here

it's easy to see why we don't want him.

:laugh2: what a load of crap, you don't speak for the 'boys

 

[Idgit]

No.

Try buying a magazine and reading them. Or watching a few Texas games.

I'm secure in my opinion and I'm not going to waste my time scouring the internet for Joe Blow amateur resources when it won't convince you anyway.

I already know, like many of the people here, that Griffin is not your centerfielder type FS.

If he can play the position, he can play it like Hamlin does. Adequately, but not the true high range FS we want to free up Roy. He makes too many mistakes and simply can't do it. He's better with the play in front of him like Roy is.

Combine that with the fact that there are at least 22 players better than him in this draft, and it's easy to see why we don't want him.

Hamlin's been a pretty dang good coverage safety in this leauge. We could do a lot worse, if that's your comparison.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think I have identified the source of the discrepancy here. It's not that our fans are that much wiser than the professionals. It's that the people here have... what's the words... agendas about who they want so they talk down people they don't want and say stupid stuff like you have seen here.

Yep... And unfortunately, that will carry on for years if we happen to draft those players. Even if the players turn out to be good ones.

But then again, in some cases, some people DO think they know more than the pros, as silly as that is.

Rick Gosselin said today that Griffin was the second best safety on many if not most teams' boards and that he might not even make it to our pick. But I guess some people know better than Gosselin -- who I dislike very much but who has a proven successful record this time of year.

(PS-whoever the guy is with Wickard v. Filburn in your sig line... ditch it. Most people won't get it and to those of us who do, you look ignorant for having it in there.)

LOL...

 

[mschmidt64]

How about find 3 and back that up?

I'd be happy to give you some directions.

1) Walk outside.

2) Start your car.

3) Drive to nearest Barnes and Noble or Borders.

4) Buy NFL preview magazines.

Eh? How am I hypocritcal based on what I said? Do you even think before you type? Or do you just spew out superficial nonsense, such as your Wickard comment?

Two quick things: 1. When you cite things, it is customary to put the date after the reporter citation. It's basic legal practice that any attorrney knows. So, it should be: Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942). I don't think I have ever seen anyone cite something without putting a date. It's fundamental. 2. What do you suppose would happen if the Court were to explicitly overturn Wickard? You sound like some kid who heard something in a class and understood the issue only superficially and decided to stick that in his profile to look smart.

1) No, it isn't necessary for shorthand citations, which is all I was doing. And if you were to look at other sites where I have similar signatures up, I have the full citation.

2) I imagine some radical changes would happen to our society, such as the elimination of Congress's completely fictional ability to regulate whatever the hell they want to. Which is good, because currently that sham of a ruling is making complete mockery of the constitution. For one, we wouldn't get ridiculous rulings like Gonzalez v Raich.

 

[mschmidt64]

Hamlin's been a pretty dang good coverage safety in this leauge. We could do a lot worse, if that's your comparison.

He's not your classic CF, which was my original contention, and he's not good value at 22. I never said Griffin was as bad as Roy in coverage.

Just that he can't play FS for what we want our FS to do.

 

[mschmidt64]

So you have none. That's what I thought.

No, I've got plenty.

I just see no need to explain them to you.

I don't care about your opinion enough to feel I have to change it.

I'd rather just state the obvious and then let you insist otherwise.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

4) Buy NFL preview magazines.

so buy Draft preview mags that still have Jason Hill running a 4.55? and Joe Staley as the 5th or 6th best OT prospect?

 

[masomenos]

I'd be happy to give you some directions.

1) Walk outside.

2) Start your car.

3) Drive to nearest Barnes and Noble or Borders.

4) Buy NFL preview magazines.

Or you can just read my post with quotes from Gil Brandt, Scouts Inc. and NFL Draft Scout (who provides services for the NFL), all professional and credible sources.