Will Dalton get fair shake?

[cern]

if dak signs the tag deal, he will start. if he does not, Dalton will start. hardly the stuff of dissertations.

 

[CowboyoWales]

assuming your wishful 0-3 start, and then having more problems, then QB would be least of our issues.

pretending that Dak is a problem is the problem.

How's mentioning it the same a wishing it.

There's nothing about Dak being a problem, ive never mentioned he's a problem.

Try reading whole posts rather than prejudging whether (in your opinion) the person posting is anti-Dak.

 

[the_h0wey]

Do you think with or w/o a contract for Dak will Andy get a fair shake to compete and win the starting job? Will it make a difference if Dak is only the one yr deal or if signed long term?.

Who is Will Dalton and what is a fair shake? I prefer a Strawberry shake

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

How's mentioning it the same a wishing it.

There's nothing about Dak being a problem, ive never mentioned he's a problem.

Try reading whole posts rather than prejudging whether (in your opinion) the person posting is anti-Dak.

like I said, if we go 0-3, we have bigger problems than Dak...he is not the problem...there is plenty of other problem areas....

secondly, it would be very shortsighted to put an 0-3 start on Dak and offense in general.... what if we lose 3 high scoring games (given we are speaking hypotheticals!)…. where is others culpability in any loss? i.e. what if we lose a 38-35 game? is your response going to be well, Dak should have scored 42!.....in those hypothetical scenarios, Dak did what he was supposed to and expected to and paid to do....

I don;'t disagree that the ultimate results are wins/losses, but putting wins/losses at the foot of the QB only, its going to lead to wrong decisions. KC was averaging about 35 points a game in 2018 and they didn't make the playoffs, was it Mahomes fault? should they have decided to move on from Mahomes and worry about having to pay him? Same with NO, why not move on from Brees. would anyone advocate that? I mean, they can really use some help on defense and around this forum Payton is close to coaching God....

ultimately wins/losses is how you measure Coaches/GMs given they are responsible for the WHOLE team..putting a winning TEAM on the field...Dak is responsible for the offense (not the scheme, not the play calls, etc.)…..his job is to execute to the best of his ability what he has been asked to do....if Linehan and Garrett decided to predictably run on first downs (like in 2018), and the results were putting the team behind, then that's not on Dak….that's the coaches....

lastly, I don't see paying Dak $35M as an issue. In fact I fully expected it to be around these numbers based on what was being negotiated and discussed last year. and in fact I advocated for us to wait this past summer as I had some concerns about Dak and wanted a prove me year for Dak to show he has improved before committing 30M a year to him last summer, even if its going to cost a few more million this summer (which is where we are)...… facts are that $4M extra on cap is not going to be the difference between superbowl or no superbowl….. and there is no way in heck Dak is worth in the teens, anyone claiming that is plain STUPID.....there are no other alternatives that would put the team in a winning position.....not spending on Dak, wouldn't have allowed us to strengthen the defense outside of over paying a player, which is what everyone here is arguing against...keeping Jones or Quinn, wouldnt' lead to a better team. those two were already on the team and defense sucked....there aren't any other FAs worth what they are asking for, given teams tend to overpay (slightly) to keep their key players...…..

whether anyone wants to admit or not, Dak is a key player for Dallas.

 

[Qcard]

Who is Will Dalton and what is a fair shake? I prefer a Strawberry shake

Will Dalton leads the league in starting Wrs tackles after INTs....

Will averages 3 tackles per Andy Dalton's career 118 INTs...14 Tackles made in Endzone. Endzone tape is amazing...Will Dalton

It's called Dak Hatershake.

 

[CowboyoWales]

like I said, if we go 0-3, we have bigger problems than Dak...he is not the problem...there is plenty of other problem areas....
whether anyone wants to admit or not, Dak is a key player for Dallas.

That's my point - 0-3 and we aren't a team that's going anywhere near a SB (Dak or Not).

No point in over stretching payroll at a QB if the problem is elsewhere and wont have the resources to fix in FA.....all we'll be doing is further worsening the team by cutting veterans to lower payroll.

….and restock via the draft which means time to develop by which time Dak's looking for his next contract.

If we build around Dak, it needs to be for the long run as it's give flexibility (especially in the next couple of years).

You just don't see anything other than sign Dak. You're unable to see the overall picture.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

That's my point - 0-3 and we aren't a team that's going anywhere near a SB (Dak or Not).

No point in over stretching payroll at a QB if the problem is elsewhere and wont have the resources to fix in FA.....all we'll be doing is further worsening the team by cutting veterans to lower payroll.

….and restock via the draft which means time to develop by which time Dak's looking for his next contract.

If we build around Dak, it needs to be for the long run as it's give flexibility (especially in the next couple of years).

You just don't see anything other than sign Dak. You're unable to see the overall picture.

I have said it before, we are not a superbowl team this year, if we make the playoffs I will be happy. that's my expectations for the team and new coaching staff. am I setting the bar low? absolutely not. there has never been a new coaching staff, from outside an organization taking over any team and going deep in the playoffs. its just not realistic, given new scheme, new coaches, etc. it will take time to get on the same page. so if the team makes the playoffs and is competitive, then we are ahead. my expectations are that this team is ready to compete the three years after that.....

is there a chance we stumble out of the gate? yes, again, new scheme on both sides of the ball, I doubt if the full playbook is going to get implemented, although Moore is kept, he is also learning to implement his scheme along with what McCarthy wants. I don't subscribe to the Madden football mentality of seeing a team click off the gates....so there will be struggles. having talent will help overcome some of that...….I think 1-2 or 2-1 have a higher probability than 3-0 or 0-3....but we are talking about odds and what if's

and to win a championship....the QB is where it starts...its the path to championship for almost everyone. now, has there been average QBs winning superbowls? ala Dilfer......yes, there is a couple but it requires extra ordinary players in other positions and specially, specially on defense and that's not going to be cheap neither...and lets not forget, Ravens had an all time best defense with Reed, Lewis....its rare.....

..a QB makes the biggest impact on offense. probably has the biggest impact on the team....absolutely no denying that...a DE doesn't make the biggest impact alone, without having good DBs, good LBs and DTs on the line with him. everyone here is clamouring for us having signed Poe and McCoy, yet they played for a craapy Carolina defense.....given the rest of the supporting cast was bad..... so to build a defense you need to hand out a few large contracts like we did to Lawrence and we had fans here go nuts when we were doing that.....imagine if we handed out three of those...people are already bulking at low prive we paid Smith and bulked at paying jones or quinn...somehow they hate paying players we already have, but think paying outside FA is going to fix the problem. and we know that's not the path to success for any team....

and KC is a great example, they have the QB, build and offense around him......their offense scored 35pts in 2018, they came up short...their defense was 31st....they added a couple of small pieces to the defense...they won superbowl averaging 28 pts per game and defense was 14th....not world beaters...but good enough.....new england won with the same formula, fell short like this year and got man handled eventhough they had a good defense....their offense lacked and lacked enough weapons.... tampa is risking with Brady, a 42 year old QB, given they have most of the offensive weapons in place except for QB....they are hoping their defense is good enough....NO is doing the same thing, handing big contract to brees who hasnt' won anything in a long time given his contract, but he is the one that gives them the best chance....

and like I said, pay him 30 M and people on this board will be clamouring on what a great deal we got....pay him 35M and people are angry...why? because its a line they don't want to cross and like I said4,5 M ain't the difference between championship ready and a bad team.....but not having a capable QB is not going to provide you opportunity to do so.....money is not the issue as that's what most Dak detractors are clinging to and its a false narrative

and contrary to your statement...I do see the over all picture...I do see this as part of the plan that will lead to championships...

I don't think you see any other way, given no other alternatives to Dak have been provided that would even on paper lead to a championship team...without listing a bunch of what ifs and hypotheticals

 

[CowboyoWales]

I have said it before, we are not a superbowl team this year, if we make the playoffs I will be happy. that's my expectations for the team and new coaching staff. am I setting the bar low? absolutely not. there has never been a new coaching staff, from outside an organization taking over any team and going deep in the playoffs. its just not realistic, given new scheme, new coaches, etc. it will take time to get on the same page. so if the team makes the playoffs and is competitive, then we are ahead. my expectations are that this team is ready to compete the three years after that.....

is there a chance we stumble out of the gate? yes, again, new scheme on both sides of the ball, I doubt if the full playbook is going to get implemented, although Moore is kept, he is also learning to implement his scheme along with what McCarthy wants. I don't subscribe to the Madden football mentality of seeing a team click off the gates....so there will be struggles. having talent will help overcome some of that...….I think 1-2 or 2-1 have a higher probability than 3-0 or 0-3....but we are talking about odds and what if's

and to win a championship....the QB is where it starts...its the path to championship for almost everyone. now, has there been average QBs winning superbowls? ala Dilfer......yes, there is a couple but it requires extra ordinary players in other positions and specially, specially on defense and that's not going to be cheap neither...and lets not forget, Ravens had an all time best defense with Reed, Lewis....its rare.....

..a QB makes the biggest impact on offense. probably has the biggest impact on the team....absolutely no denying that...a DE doesn't make the biggest impact alone, without having good DBs, good LBs and DTs on the line with him. everyone here is clamouring for us having signed Poe and McCoy, yet they played for a craapy Carolina defense.....given the rest of the supporting cast was bad..... so to build a defense you need to hand out a few large contracts like we did to Lawrence and we had fans here go nuts when we were doing that.....imagine if we handed out three of those...people are already bulking at low prive we paid Smith and bulked at paying jones or quinn...somehow they hate paying players we already have, but think paying outside FA is going to fix the problem. and we know that's not the path to success for any team....

and KC is a great example, they have the QB, build and offense around him......their offense scored 35pts in 2018, they came up short...their defense was 31st....they added a couple of small pieces to the defense...they won superbowl averaging 28 pts per game and defense was 14th....not world beaters...but good enough.....new england won with the same formula, fell short like this year and got man handled eventhough they had a good defense....their offense lacked and lacked enough weapons.... tampa is risking with Brady, a 42 year old QB, given they have most of the offensive weapons in place except for QB....they are hoping their defense is good enough....NO is doing the same thing, handing big contract to brees who hasnt' won anything in a long time given his contract, but he is the one that gives them the best chance....

and like I said, pay him 30 M and people on this board will be clamouring on what a great deal we got....pay him 35M and people are angry...why? because its a line they don't want to cross and like I said4,5 M ain't the difference between championship ready and a bad team.....but not having a capable QB is not going to provide you opportunity to do so.....money is not the issue as that's what most Dak detractors are clinging to and its a false narrative

and contrary to your statement...I do see the over all picture...I do see this as part of the plan that will lead to championships...

I don't think you see any other way, given no other alternatives to Dak have been provided that would even on paper lead to a championship team...without listing a bunch of what ifs and hypotheticals

1) Dak isn't Mahomes
2) Its not all about the QB..... could also argue that we haven't got the defence to win a championship
3) I'll pay Day $35m (see my signature) …. for me its about freeing up money so that we wont have to further restructure contracts/lose FA's/ unable to sign FA's in 2021.

 

[OmerV]

Who was 1st in yardage last season beating out Dak.....

Dak will soon follow his glory road to a bench somewhere in the NFL...

Yet another stupid comment because this in no way supports your comment that all Dak did was throw check down passes.

Winston didn't only throw check down passes either, so I have to wonder if you are even able to understand that this is irrelevant to your comment.

Maybe you forgot what you wrote, or maybe you are just trying to deflect attention away from how false your comment was.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

I have said it before, we are not a superbowl team this year, if we make the playoffs I will be happy. that's my expectations for the team and new coaching staff. am I setting the bar low? absolutely not. there has never been a new coaching staff, from outside an organization taking over any team and going deep in the playoffs. its just not realistic, given new scheme, new coaches, etc. it will take time to get on the same page. so if the team makes the playoffs and is competitive, then we are ahead. my expectations are that this team is ready to compete the three years after that.....

is there a chance we stumble out of the gate? yes, again, new scheme on both sides of the ball, I doubt if the full playbook is going to get implemented, although Moore is kept, he is also learning to implement his scheme along with what McCarthy wants. I don't subscribe to the Madden football mentality of seeing a team click off the gates....so there will be struggles. having talent will help overcome some of that...….I think 1-2 or 2-1 have a higher probability than 3-0 or 0-3....but we are talking about odds and what if's

and to win a championship....the QB is where it starts...its the path to championship for almost everyone. now, has there been average QBs winning superbowls? ala Dilfer......yes, there is a couple but it requires extra ordinary players in other positions and specially, specially on defense and that's not going to be cheap neither...and lets not forget, Ravens had an all time best defense with Reed, Lewis....its rare.....

..a QB makes the biggest impact on offense. probably has the biggest impact on the team....absolutely no denying that...a DE doesn't make the biggest impact alone, without having good DBs, good LBs and DTs on the line with him. everyone here is clamouring for us having signed Poe and McCoy, yet they played for a craapy Carolina defense.....given the rest of the supporting cast was bad..... so to build a defense you need to hand out a few large contracts like we did to Lawrence and we had fans here go nuts when we were doing that.....imagine if we handed out three of those...people are already bulking at low prive we paid Smith and bulked at paying jones or quinn...somehow they hate paying players we already have, but think paying outside FA is going to fix the problem. and we know that's not the path to success for any team....

and KC is a great example, they have the QB, build and offense around him......their offense scored 35pts in 2018, they came up short...their defense was 31st....they added a couple of small pieces to the defense...they won superbowl averaging 28 pts per game and defense was 14th....not world beaters...but good enough.....new england won with the same formula, fell short like this year and got man handled eventhough they had a good defense....their offense lacked and lacked enough weapons.... tampa is risking with Brady, a 42 year old QB, given they have most of the offensive weapons in place except for QB....they are hoping their defense is good enough....NO is doing the same thing, handing big contract to brees who hasnt' won anything in a long time given his contract, but he is the one that gives them the best chance....

and like I said, pay him 30 M and people on this board will be clamouring on what a great deal we got....pay him 35M and people are angry...why? because its a line they don't want to cross and like I said4,5 M ain't the difference between championship ready and a bad team.....but not having a capable QB is not going to provide you opportunity to do so.....money is not the issue as that's what most Dak detractors are clinging to and its a false narrative

and contrary to your statement...I do see the over all picture...I do see this as part of the plan that will lead to championships...

I don't think you see any other way, given no other alternatives to Dak have been provided that would even on paper lead to a championship team...without listing a bunch of what ifs and hypotheticals

Yep Chiefs with Alex Smith going nowhere....
And Chiefs with Mahomes SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS!

Do you get the idea bud?
Time for a change at QB!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

1) Dak isn't Mahomes
2) Its not all about the QB..... could also argue that we haven't got the defence to win a championship
3) I'll pay Day $35m (see my signature) …. for me its about freeing up money so that we wont have to further restructure contracts/lose FA's/ unable to sign FA's in 2021.

Brady isn't mahomes. Wilson isn't mahomes. brees isn't mahomes. Rodgers isn't mahomes. Watson isn't mahomes. cousins isn't mahomes...right now mahomes operates at a different stratosphere...and his pay will be 40-45 range......

its not all, but most of it revolves around QB...you need defense but you don't need all time defense as evident from several....SF had a great great defense and fell short....because of grapolo and his lack luster play

and as I have argued, 35, vs. 30 or what ever......4,5 M is not going to be the difference between having ability to sign or not sign anyone we want......and going cheap with a QB, if they are not on their rookie contract is not a winning formula. so you either draft one every 3 years in the first round and hope you can win with them in a 4 year window or you constantly look for the next QB if you are not willing to spend......that's how it is in the NFL...….

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yep Chiefs with Alex Smith going nowhere....
And Chiefs with Mahomes SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS!

Do you get the idea bud?
Time for a change at QB!

DAK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Alex Smith

you get the idea bud?

 

[OmerV]

Yep Chiefs with Alex Smith going nowhere....
And Chiefs with Mahomes SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS!

Do you get the idea bud?
Time for a change at QB!

Good thing you weren't the Broncos GM when Elway wasn't winning Super Bowls.

By the way, the Chargers made that decision, moved away from Brees and got Phillip Rivers …. was that the right decision?

 

[aikemirv]

Do you think with or w/o a contract for Dak will Andy get a fair shake to compete and win the starting job? Will it make a difference if Dak is only the one yr deal or if signed long term?.

A fair shake IMO is in relation to the contract they gave him. They gave him a backup contract. Unless Dak struggled mightily or did not sign he is the backup period. That is his shake and what he agreed to when he signed that contract.

It is kinda like the kicker situation. Zuelien has a huge guarantee, unless Forbath beats him like a rag doll, Zuerlein is the kicker

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Good thing you weren't the Broncos GM when Elway wasn't winning Super Bowls.

By the way, the Chargers made that decision, moved away from Brees and got Phillip Rivers …. was that the right decision?

 

[CowboyoWales]

Brady isn't mahomes. Wilson isn't mahomes. brees isn't mahomes. Rodgers isn't mahomes.

and as I have argued, 35, vs. 30 or what ever......

1) Dead right and EVERYONE of those lesser QB won SB???

2) Once again, ive never said pay him $30m - Read my signature.