Will Jerry ever allow the "best" players to play?

[Jack-Reacher]

I like how everyone points to Austin when this subject or similar subjects come up. NOBODY predicted he would have the impact he had. He was unknown outside of the Dallas fanbase. People act like he was kept on a leash for the past few years and only grudgingly allowed to play when everyone else was hurt.

Austin surprised everyone, he is the exception to the rule. The coaching staff has said multiple times that every position is open to competition. To think that Jerry would insist that a higher paid player play, is unsound logic. It is in Jerry's best interest to field the best team possible. Super Bowl wins equate to merchandise sales, and merchandising is HUGE part of any entertainment related business income.

The larger the fanbase, the more TV deals they will get, the more merch they can move etc. Wins are still the be all end all in this sport, and any owner, coach etc. would be foolish to allow player salaries to dictate playing time over talent.

 

[Jack-Reacher]

Not true, everything he has done as been near perfect except for that. for the price we paid we couldve gotten better, he only had 1 year of over 1k yards. I could've told you without knowing who he was it wasnt a great deal.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? It is easy to say I could have told him that, yet every other intangible argued against it at the time. You point to only his yards without allowing for WHERE he played. He was a highly sought after recruit coming out of Texas, and many people, not just Texas fans, thought that a change of scenery was all that he needed.

I do not disagree that we gave up too much, but it is ludicrous to assert that the only indication you would have needed was based on his current production. A lot of people looked at his 1000+ yrd season as more meaningful because of what team he was on.

 

[28 Joker]

I do think it is the coaches that make the choices on who plays and how much. However, Roy Williams' contract is an interesting situation. He's just received something like $ 9.5 million dollars, and he's a huge investment. When Crayton appears on his way out and is clearly not in the Cowboys' plans, it does make you think some. That alone doesn't prove anything, though. Patrick Crayton was the more efficient player last year when you compare Crayton's production to Williams' output. However, the Cowboys are going with Williams' potential on the outside, and that is a spot where Crayton doesn't excel. Kevin Ogletree gives them another option, and he will probably benefit the most from Crayton being on his way out.

Jerry has come out and stated that he wanted the younger, more talented players to play. Plus, his moves recently have backed that up.

Owens- Gone
Ellis- Gone
Henry- Gone
Roy Williams- Gone
Pacrat- Gone
Water Pistol- Gone
Adams-Gone
Hamlin-Gone
Crayton-soon to be Gone

Those were all great, great, great, great, great moves by the Cowboys organization. If anything, I think it has been the coaches who have shied away from playing elite rookie talents like Felix Jones, Anthony Spencer, and Mike Jenkins. However, I think and hope that they have learned their lesson.

It was the coaches that waited too long to start Mike Jenkins last year. I could have told them that Jenkins was the better player in 2008. It was Jason Garrett and Wade Phillips who didn't give Felix Jones one carry in the 2008 Washington game, after Felix Jones destroyed the Packers on 9 carries.

If anything, Jerry cut loose many of the "progress stoppers" and forced the coaches to play guys like Mike Jenkins, to stop pulling Spencer out on third down and starting Ellis to appease his inflated ego...

Jerry Jones was rewarded with 12 wins and a playoff home win and beating the hated Eagles three times and twice in two weeks, beat downs.

 

[dbair1967]

Believe me I love Jerry as and owner, and the past couple of years he and his staff have done a fantastic job with this roster (even with the RW11 trade...none of us knew at the time he was going to be lazy). I also think the Cezowzki (can't spell it, or pronounce it) has done an amazing job and could be a top GM in this league.

My problem is that it always seems that they talk about competition on the team, but is there really? It's clear that the players that make the most..play the most. Ie. Barber and Roy. It's always been this way with Jerry. If they are the best players for those positions I can live with that, but if the players behind them are not starting, or playing because of the paycheck then that's wrong. It was very clear that Ogletree needed more playing time last year. It also took Austin 5 games to get on the field, only because of the injury. We also all know Felix should have gotten more touches.

It's almost like Jerry is afraid to hurt feelings, or that he might hurt his own since he pays the checks and makes the moves.

I might be wrong about this, but I don't think so. If we are truly going to be an elite team and get to the big bowl, the pendulum needs to shift.

 

[J-DOG]

Believe me I love Jerry as and owner, and the past couple of years he and his staff have done a fantastic job with this roster (even with the RW11 trade...none of us knew at the time he was going to be lazy). I also think the Cezowzki (can't spell it, or pronounce it) has done an amazing job and could be a top GM in this league.

My problem is that it always seems that they talk about competition on the team, but is there really? It's clear that the players that make the most..play the most. Ie. Barber and Roy. It's always been this way with Jerry. If they are the best players for those positions I can live with that, but if the players behind them are not starting, or playing because of the paycheck then that's wrong. It was very clear that Ogletree needed more playing time last year. It also took Austin 5 games to get on the field, only because of the injury. We also all know Felix should have gotten more touches.

It's almost like Jerry is afraid to hurt feelings, or that he might hurt his own since he pays the checks and makes the moves.

I might be wrong about this, but I don't think so. If we are truly going to be an elite team and get to the big bowl, the pendulum needs to shift.

Getting rid of Flozell and Hamlin are a direct result of what Austin and Mike Jenkins did last year.
We released Anthony Henry(remember him) and Jenkins took the job and ran with it.
The pendulum is swinging in case you haven't noticed.
Good players and players who were busts/disappointments have been shown the door.
Flozell Adams
Bobby Carpenter
Ken Hamlin
Cory Proctor
How much playing time was Roy getting at the end of last year compared to the other guys? Go back and look at the games and you will see that the un-productive Roy was on the bench in many 2&3 wr sets.
Roy is making a lot of jack...true. But before you get rid of him you want to give him a chance to improve especially if you are JJ and you will owe him all that money regardless.
Barber...he was injured thru most of the season last year. Barber has been so valuable in the past that I like that Jerry is not just shipping him out.
Plus we got Felix and Choice on the roster if Barber continues to regress.
It was just 2 seasons ago we were down to just Choice as the only healthy rb we had. Barber stays.
So my point is that Austin has changed the outlook of how we handle our roster....and your point is that you are mad that Roy is still starting. If Roy does not produce we will put guys in there who will...they showed that last year. Don't worry be happy!

 

[lspain1]

Aven, I disagree with your premise. Jerry has players he likes.....and so he should. One of the things an owner/GM should enjoy in the NFL business is the hiring and development of talented people and Jerry clearly does that. Jerry has been accused of having too much loyalty to his star players (a holdover from the triplet days) and that statement has some truth. But from a fan's perspective I can't see that as a huge fault. And the recent evidence clearly demonstrates that Jerry recognizes mistakes and takes action to move on.

We will see what happens with Barber and RW this season but I expect a highly productive offense and a better performance from both players.

 

[bpfred]

I am one of the few people who agree with the premise of this thread.

Jerry doesn't have to explicitly order coaches to play certain players, for an influence to happen. Coaches may pound the table for a given player (free agent or in the draft), Jerry gets the player, pays him big money, and expects the coach to be right. The coach turns out not to be right, and plays him anyway (to maintain credibility or his job), giving any number of reasons that sound reasonable.

Examples: IMO Jay Ratliff has been better and more talented than Spears since the day they showed up. Spears was handed a starting job--Ratliff sat for a long time, and was forced to change positions to get on the field. I still think Ratliff would be just as good at DE as NT. IMO, the money determined the playing time (directly or indirectly--who cares).

Bowen is, IMO, clearly better and more talented than Spears. Still sitting pretty much.

Felix Jones is on a five year contract. Unfortunately for him, Barber had his one good year right before Jones was drafted. Even more unfortunately, Barber was signed to a big contract. It has been apparent, again in IMO, since Jones got here that he was considerably more talented than Barber. They have wasted two years of that five years figuring it out--and they still may not have if Barber hadn't been hurt so much.

Choice, for that matter, has been as productive (given the playing time) as Barber. And, IMO, as talented. Same story. [This is coming off as if I don't like Barber--in fact I do--just not as much as Jones.]

Last year, despite some claims to the contrary, it was obvious that Williams and Crayton were horrible starting receivers. Their success vs TB was more due to blown coverages & TB not knowing what they were doing than anything else). Crayton, IMO, is good enough to beat most 3rd CBs in the league, but starting CBs eat him alive. There were people (including me) who suggested Austin be given a chance--again Williams got a huge contract, and Crayton had a much larger one than Austin. And there were a lot of signs that Austin could be a good player--he just hadn't put it together yet. He had been making an occasional big play, and just missing on others--both in the prior regular season, and in last year's preaseason.

I do believe there are signs that the organization is getting better--but it will take a lot more to convince me.

 

[zrinkill]

The best most proven players do play.

I dare anyone to name when that has not been the case.

 

[Yeagermeister]

I wonder if fans of other teams fall in love with backups like ours do.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

When did Jerry Jones become Head Coach?

 

[Doomsday101]

When did Jerry Jones become Head Coach?

Never has and has said it time and again.

 

[TNCowboy]

The best most proven players do play.

I dare anyone to name when that has not been the case.

Roy Williams and Patrick Crayton got most of the pt at WR last season, until injury forced them to play Austin more. Once Austin got on the field, it was obvious he was far and away the best player. So your point is fail.

But to the original poster's point, I doubt that was Jerry Jones incompetence. More than likely, it was Jason Garrett's.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I wonder if fans of other teams fall in love with backups like ours do.

Yes they do.

Our fans are no different then other fans on other message boards.

As a matter of fact, our fans are 'tame' compared to other fan's message boards that I have been too.

 

[zrinkill]

Roy Williams and Patrick Crayton got most of the pt at WR last season, until injury forced them to play Austin more. Once Austin got on the field, it was obvious he was far and away the best player. So your point is fail.

No your point is fail ..... when Austin proved he was the best player .... he played .... before that he was just a great athlete who rarely showed up in regular season games, except against the Packers (and that was on pass interference)

If you kids cannot figure that out I am sorry.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes they do.

Our fans are no different then other fans on other message boards.

As a matter of fact, our fans are 'tame' compared to other fan's message boards that I have been too.

I agree. As for backups many fans love the backup because they rarely make mistakes since they don't play much to begin with. Backups are the greener grass on the other side of the fence. :laugh2:

 

[Aven8]

Ok all points taken. I agree with a lot of the post. When I thought about this thread I was driving down the highway and heard Norm say that they were going to keep Barber the starter. I thought to myself, why? Jones has proved himself and deserves the job. I realize it doesn't matter who actually "starts", but it does matter who actually plays the best. I love Barber, but I love Felix more. It just seems to me that Jerry is worried sometimes about hurting feelings, and maye who is getting paid more.

I could be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ok all points taken. I agree with a lot of the post. When I thought about this thread I was driving down the highway and heard Norm say that they were going to keep Barber the starter. I thought to myself, why? Jones has proved himself and deserves the job. I realize it doesn't matter who actually "starts", but it does matter who actually plays the best. I love Barber, but I love Felix more. It just seems to me that Jerry is worried sometimes about hurting feelings, and maye who is getting paid more.

I could be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong.

I don't think anything is set in stone about who the starter will be. There has been speculation about Felix starting as well as Barber I guess we wait until the pads come on to get an idea of who the starter will be. As for Jerry not wanting to hurt feeling? he ate 9 million to ditch TO he got rid of a long time member in Ellis and Roy Williams I don't think Jerry is overly concerned about hurting feelings.

 

[ZeroClub]

A few months ago, around the time of the draft, didn't Jerry say something about him, as GM, having a significant voice in who did and didn't play?

I'm not going to spend the time to go searching for the quote now, but maybe someone else here remembers it.


I've assumed that Jerry had a hand/voice in the number of snaps that MBIII and Roy Williams had last year. I do think that Jerry, especially the pre-Parcells Jerry, often wanted the highest paid players to play more.

I credit Parcells with instilling a different philosophy, at least temporarily, which was, it didn't matter how you were acquired or what you were paid, the best players played.

Henson was mentioned earlier in this thread. It is true that Henson was Jerry's hope. It is also true that Henson hardly saw the field. But when Henson did play that half vs. Chicago, didn't you get the feeling that Parcells was very reluctant to play Henson and did so mostly to get Jerry off of his (Parcell's) back? It was as if Parcells played Henson so that he (Parcells) could say, "see, he's not ready."

I had a similar feel about Jason Garrett last year, after he was criticized for not running the ball enough, Garrett went absolutely run crazy one game. As if to say, "O.K., you don't think I'm running the ball enough? I'm going to run it so much that you'll get sick of it."

Anyway, and to his credit, the post-Parcells Jerry has been vocal in supporting playing time for some younger, relatively lower profile players (e.g., Free and Ogletree).

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I think the thread premise is just a bit off.

I agree, if you think Jerry will be leaving Roy on the field for example, with Bryant impressing the Coaches signficantly, that thinking is somewhat off the mark.

Dallas and Jones will give Roy every chance in the World but by Mid-Season or sooner if he hasn't produced then Jerry will be one of the first people to step up and ask about Bryant or even Ogletree.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

You might be on to something.

I have always said that jerra's heart is bigger than his brain, though some of his personnel moves lately show maturity as a GM while keeping his wildcatter spirit alive.

I do think that he keeps some around longer than their usefulness. Emmitt comes to mind. Brooking also. And Wade. And for the money he spent on Roy Williams, he did seem to want to get some kind of return on his money by needlessly keeping Roy on the field when Ogle needed more field time.

All in all, Jerra remains my owner crush as far as owners go. I cant think of another owner I'd like to have here. Jerra has his faults, but by gum, he gets the job done.

It's not just Jerry Jones, everyone in the NFL wants to play their high end contract players.


It's funny to see fans try to gauge players like Marion Barber for instance. The hype about his reckless running style has seeped into minds through the media and is a purely fraudulant mis-observation.

Some would say he's lost a step/done but many times there are minor injury circumstances that no one outside the organization realizes.

While a little "CS" would tell you that a RB like Marion Barber in his prime, in his mid-20s will likely maintain himself physically baring slight or major injury for the next three to four seasons atleast untill his late 20s.