Williams a liability?

[Maikeru-sama]

Riiight, becasue we haven't had one of these threads in what....four hours.

He can post anything he wants on this message board as long as it falls within the guidelines.

Just like you are free to whine about it.

There is nothing wrong with him starting this thread. Just like it is nothing wrong with you whining about him starting this thread .

 

[Rackat]

You Tomson75?

I have absolutely no problem with him starting this thread.

I misinterpreted your post original response.

Roy Williams was discussed on the Ranch Report about an hour ago.

Mickey stated that we gave him a $11 million SB and guys like that are here for 3-4 years.

Roy is not going anywhere.

I interpreted you meaning "forget about it". No harm intended. Just funning around on a boring day at work on the day after Christmas.

 

[Thick 'N Hearty]

Here are some names that are great in coverage, IMO: the late Sean Taylor (played like a SS), Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison, LaRon Landry, Bob Sanders, Polamalu, Adrian Wilson, Brian Dawkins. I can keep going, but there are definitely SS out there who are pretty damn good at pass coverage.

Even Woody said the knock on Williams is that he needs to work on his technique. You'd think someone would pay attention to what someone who's been there and done that has to say.

There are some solid options coming up in the draft that can't be dismissed. Kenny Phillips, Miami, would be a solid pick. He has size and the ability to play the run and the pass. Josh Barrett, Arizona, is another big SS who plays the pass well. 5 picks during his career.

My point is, there are players out there who can compete and do a better overall job than Roy. Our D-line and LBs are solid, so we don't necessarily need that extra hard hitter at the line. What we need is another safety who can play the pass.

All I'm saying is it's worth a look in the offseason, just like every other position. Isn't that why Spencer was drafted? To have a replacement for Ellis? Different circumstances, but similar principle.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I misinterpreted your post original response.



I interpreted you meaning "forget about it". No harm intended. Just funning around on a boring day at work on the day after Christmas.

Yeah, tell me about it.

I should have called in sick, nobody is even here.

But then again, nobody ever seems to come to work at my company .

 

[aikemirv]

Liability as a SS - Keith Davis

Very good SS - Roy Williams.

 

[JPM]

Here are some names that are great in coverage, IMO: the late Sean Taylor (played like a SS), Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison, LaRon Landry, Bob Sanders, Polamalu, Adrian Wilson, Brian Dawkins. I can keep going, but there are definitely SS out there who are pretty damn good at pass coverage.

All I'm saying is it's worth a look in the offseason, just like every other position. Isn't that why Spencer was drafted? To have a replacement for Ellis? Different circumstances, but similar principle.

What have you seen from any of the other players listed above that make you think they are better than Roy. Or did you just go thru the usual names that are thrown out during a Roy discussion. And you can keep adding to your list ? Does that mean you'll just name every SS in the NFL and say they are better than Roy ?

I thought Spencer was chosen cause Ellis was coming off a major injury, his contract squabbles and his age, not cause he couldn't play, like Roy.

 

[Kilyin]

I like bacon.

 

[Thick 'N Hearty]

What have you seen from any of the other players listed above that make you think they are better than Roy. Or did you just go thru the usual names that are thrown out during a Roy discussion. And you can keep adding to your list ? Does that mean you'll just name every SS in the NFL and say they are better than Roy ?

I thought Spencer was chosen cause Ellis was coming off a major injury, his contract squabbles and his age, not cause he couldn't play, like Roy.

So is everyone who's coming to RW's defense saying there is no one out there who can play better than him? There's no one out there who can be an all-around SS instead of one dimensional?

All I'm suggesting in this thread is the boys should consider looking for someone who can do a better job. If RW is as good as it's going to get, someone needs to seriously sit him down and talk about his technique. This isn't coming from me, this is coming from players who have played the position and coaches who have coached it.

 

[peplaw06]

Here are some names that are great in coverage, IMO: the late Sean Taylor (played like a SS), Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison, LaRon Landry, Bob Sanders, Polamalu, Adrian Wilson, Brian Dawkins. I can keep going, but there are definitely SS out there who are pretty damn good at pass coverage.

1. Good idea. Let's replace him with Taylor.

2. Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison and Brian Dawkins? Let's trade him for two guys north of 32. Not to mention Sharper and Harrison have played 2 full seasons since 2001. Dawkins is a FS, he's 34, and he's played
3 full seasons since 2001.

3. LaRon Landry... he may end up being better, but right now, no thanks. You'd be trading on potential.

4. Bob Sanders... maybe the only guy I'd seriously consider trading Roy for straight up today. (I would think about Landry, but I'm talking about someone who could upgrade us NOW.) He still has his deficiencies in coverage, no doubt.

5. Polamalu... I don't even think he's in the discussion. He misses way too many tackles for a SS.

6. Adrian Wilson is a great player on a terrible defense, that's why he looks so good. you put him with a defense like ours, and he's probably JAG.

Out of this entire list, IMO you've named 3 guys who would even be considered as replacements.... Landry, Sanders, and Wilson. So how likely is it to find an upgrade at this position?

There are some solid options coming up in the draft that can't be dismissed. Kenny Phillips, Miami, would be a solid pick. He has size and the ability to play the run and the pass. Josh Barrett, Arizona, is another big SS who plays the pass well. 5 picks during his career.

Yeah, another good idea. Let's cut ties to Roy and CREATE another need in the draft. We don't have enough. And let's add an element of risk into it. We don't know if we'll even be able to pick one of these guys, and we don't know how they'll translate into the NFL game. Oh, and 5 picks in 3-4 seasons means a guy plays well in coverage? Well, then what's wrong with Roy?

 

[JPM]

So is everyone who's coming to RW's defense saying there is no one out there who can play better than him? There's no one out there who can be an all-around SS instead of one dimensional?

All I'm suggesting in this thread is the boys should consider looking for someone who can do a better job. If RW is as good as it's going to get, someone needs to seriously sit him down and talk about his technique. This isn't coming from me, this is coming from players who have played the position and coaches who have coached it.

I'm sure there are better SS in the NFL than Roy, but you pretty much named every single one. He's not the best in coverage, he never was, that was his MO during college. But he's not the complete liabilty that some will make him out to be.

Oh, and 5 picks in 3-4 seasons means a guy plays well in coverage? Well, then what's wrong with Roy?

FYI, Roy had 9 picks in his college career.

 

[Rackat]

So is everyone who's coming to RW's defense saying there is no one out there who can play better than him? There's no one out there who can be an all-around SS instead of one dimensional?

Roy pays us well to defend him on the internet. He has given us permission to say:
1. He is what we have (his take on BP's You are what you record says you are).
2. If there were a FA available at this time RW would gladly sick Killer Davis on him
3. He may not be the best, but look how many people are scared to be tackled by him
4. He likes cheese

Anything more than that and Mr. Williams will sick Killer Davis on us.

 

[aikemirv]

Here are some names that are great in coverage, IMO: the late Sean Taylor (played like a SS), Darren Sharper, Rodney Harrison, LaRon Landry, Bob Sanders, Polamalu, Adrian Wilson, Brian Dawkins. I can keep going, but there are definitely SS out there who are pretty damn good at pass coverage.

Even Woody said the knock on Williams is that he needs to work on his technique. You'd think someone would pay attention to what someone who's been there and done that has to say.

There are some solid options coming up in the draft that can't be dismissed. Kenny Phillips, Miami, would be a solid pick. He has size and the ability to play the run and the pass. Josh Barrett, Arizona, is another big SS who plays the pass well. 5 picks during his career.
My point is, there are players out there who can compete and do a better overall job than Roy. Our D-line and LBs are solid, so we don't necessarily need that extra hard hitter at the line. What we need is another safety who can play the pass.

All I'm saying is it's worth a look in the offseason, just like every other position. Isn't that why Spencer was drafted? To have a replacement for Ellis? Different circumstances, but similar principle.

5 whole picks in his career in college. Roy had 5 last year:laugh1:

 

[Thick 'N Hearty]

OK fellas, let's play the hypothetical game since we all love it. The league has already informed RW that they will be watching him closely and that he's facing a harsher penalty (more than 1 game and $12,500) if he does another horsecollar. Wade has said that it's a natural instinct for RW to grab the pads because he's been doing it since Pee Wee ball.

Which is the greater risk: getting a new SS or risking losing the player (no BP intent there) for a lengthy amount of time? I'm thinking, since injuries by the horsecollar have cost careers or playing time, the penalty could possibly be in the 8-game to season frame. I know there will be those who say that's stiffer than the substance abuse policy. But, with that, they're hurting themselves, not other players.

 

[Rackat]

Hypothetically, you should look up the other 10,000 Roy threads. There is nothing you could bring up that hasn't already been discused. Hypothetically of course.

 

[EPL0c0]

I'm interested in seeing how Roy responds this coming game after the suspension. I think Roy is capable of playing better than he has this season so it would not shock me to see Roy making some big plays for this team. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think he will turn into some great cover man but by and large most SS are not great cover men which is why teams try and create matchups against the SS with TE and wideouts. What Roy is capable of doing though is making the big plays which he has done for most of his career and I hope to see that ability from Roy show up.

Agreed. He has to know about the criticism, b/c he's responded to it himself. He knows he's under a microscope from the league. This is his opportunity to finally FINALLY maybe be the Roy of old.

I personally have my doubts... I'm almost sick w/ the feeling that he'll get a horsecollar early in the game and get tossed

 

[tomson75]

He can post anything he wants on this message board as long as it falls within the guidelines.

Just like you are free to whine about it.

There is nothing wrong with him starting this thread. Just like it is nothing wrong with you whining about him starting this thread .

Actually, there is a rule against spamming. While this doesn't exactly fall directly under that rule, it's not too terribly far off, and one could argue that many of these threads are started simply for trolling purposes. There is a general unwritten suggestion that one does a search before starting a thread...on top of that, it's just common sense.

I'm not whining about him starting this thread any more than you are whining about me whining about him starting this thread. Either way, this thread is ghey...IMO of course.

 

[03EBZ06]

So is everyone who's coming to RW's defense saying there is no one out there who can play better than him? There's no one out there who can be an all-around SS instead of one dimensional?

Nope, what some of us are saying is Roy isn't as bad as some make him out to be and that he is a pretty good SS, not the best but pretty good.

this is coming from players who have played the position and coaches who have coached it.

Why did players and coaches select him to an alternate for Pro Bowl if he is so horrible?

Again, realistically, who are you going to get to replace Roy?

 

[ddh33]

6. Adrian Wilson is a great player on a terrible defense, that's why he looks so good. you put him with a defense like ours, and he's probably JAG.

Actually, I think that is about the biggest reason why there is so much more complaining about Roy. When he was the only good player on this defense and the only real playmaker, he looked a lot better. I don't even think he was considerably better - he just looked it.

Back then, the team was playing a 4-3, and Roy got to make tackles like a LB. Now, you're in a 3-4, and there is one more LB out there to gobble up a lot of those tackles. And does anyone notice that Roy still makes a big share of those tackles?

Back then, you had below average corners who seemed to have someone running free quite a bit. Roy would chase those receivers down or lay some vicious hits. Now, your corners are much better so teams are attacking differently. They go after LBs and Ss in coverage because they are the weaker link many times. And yes, folks, virtually every safety in this league is weaker in coverage than his team's corners...

Back then, Roy looked fantastic because he was surrounded by players who weren't as good. Now, Roy is still awfully good - Pro-Bowl level even - but there are many more players on this team who are also very good. As a result, Roy doesn't look like the same guy. He looks like a weak link, even when it's not necessarily true. He doesn't have friends in the media like other players on this team do who will try to protect him. He doesn't even have many people in the stands who have the much perspective. Fans just spew venom towards him because that's what they have heard, and it must be right...and they never watch the other guys in the league to see that Roy is still one of the best in the game at his position.

 

[peplaw06]

OK fellas, let's play the hypothetical game since we all love it. The league has already informed RW that they will be watching him closely and that he's facing a harsher penalty (more than 1 game and $12,500) if he does another horsecollar. Wade has said that it's a natural instinct for RW to grab the pads because he's been doing it since Pee Wee ball.

Which is the greater risk: getting a new SS or risking losing the player (no BP intent there) for a lengthy amount of time? I'm thinking, since injuries by the horsecollar have cost careers or playing time, the penalty could possibly be in the 8-game to season frame. I know there will be those who say that's stiffer than the substance abuse policy. But, with that, they're hurting themselves, not other players.

Aside from the fact that it's ridiculous to think that RW could be suspended 8 games to a season next time he gets called for a horsecollar...

Judging by your list, I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt that all the guys you mentioned are better than ROY (when they're definitely not). You have named 8 SS in a league of 32. 1 in 4 are better than Roy if we go by your list.

What are the odds that you get one of those guys or someone in the draft who turns out better? Trading for one is gonna hurt the team somewhere else if that person is definitely better than Roy. You're not just going to pick one up in FA.

You don't let loose a guy who is in the top 25% of the league at his position. The odds of magically finding a guy who's better are not good.

 

[Hostile]

Mods

Can we please sticky a roy complain thread at the top so that the board is not over ran with them?

I'd love to but it never works. There's always someone who thinks the idea they have about Roy is new and original and deserves its own thread. They are so special.

The idea of a Roy Bashing Zone has been brought up like we did for the TO Zone. We caught more flack for having created that Zone than was imagineable. I doubt we'll be in any hurry to do that again.

You think it's bad now? Wait until the off season. I already am ready to spend all that time on a beach in Mexico just thinking about it. I got find the right bank to rob first though.