Witten vs. Gronkowski (contract/performance)

[Verdict]

Contract numbers:

Gronkowski:

Term ---------- SB -------- Avg salary ------------ guaranteed money


6 yr ($54 M) -------- $8,000,000 ------------- $9,000,000 ---------- $12,920,000

Witten:

Term ________ SB ________ Avg salary ---------------- guaranteed money

5yr ($37M) ------------- $12,500,000 ----------- $7,400,000 ---------- $ 19,532,000


Gronkowski is twice the player Witten is at this point in their careers and its not even close. Witten's signing bonus and guaranteed money are actually higher than Gronk's in spite of Gronkowski being signed for a year longer.

Gronk costs an average of $1,600,000 more per year but he is worth a hell of a lot more than $1.6 M more per year than Witten. This is one reason why you we choose not to sign free agent defenders.

 

[robjay04]

Witten's contract is that way because of the restructures. This is the last year of his contract so it's time to pay up. Bad comparasion.

Witten is also the most reliable tight end in he league while Gronk can't stay on the field.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Contract numbers:

Gronkowski:

Term ---------- SB -------- Avg salary ------------ guaranteed money


6 yr ($54 M) -------- $8,000,000 ------------- $9,000,000 ---------- $12,920,000

Witten:

Term ________ SB ________ Avg salary ---------------- guaranteed money

5yr ($37M) ------------- $12,500,000 ----------- $7,400,000 ---------- $ 19,532,000


Gronkowski is twice the player Witten is at this point in their careers and its not even close. Witten's signing bonus and guaranteed money are actually higher than Gronk's in spite of Gronkowski being signed for a year longer.

Gronk costs an average of $1,600,000 more per year but he is worth a hell of a lot more than $1.6 M more per year than Witten. This is one reason why you we choose not to sign free agent defenders.

Witten has earned every cent of the $37M deal he signed.

And if you were to ask Bill he'd probably take Witten over Gronk given Witten is consistently available and is a Pro's Pro.

Gronk's deal also only initially guaranteed ~ 12M but he had a 10M option bonus that was paid in 2016. He also has per game bonuses built into his contract precisely because his health is in constant question. So in reality Gronk's contract has a higher annual average cost, more guaranteed money (unless the Pats were planning to cut him during his age 26 season) and even more in potential bonuses if he stayed healthy. He was much more expensive and he's been much less reliable.

This thread is embarrassing.

 

[CF74]

Witten is also a player coach..

 

[AzorAhai]

Yeah, huge mistake signing Witten to that deal...

 

[Verdict]

Witten is also a player coach..

Lets make him a full time coach and save the salary cap dollars.

 

[Galian Beast]

I've said for years that Witten was overpaid as a tight end.

This idea that he is a players coach is 100 percent ridiculous. His job isn't to coach, nor has his "coaching" lead us to win anything significant.

Love Witten, but he is terribly overpaid.

 

[MrPhil]

According to over the cap, the value of his contract in terms of $ per year is #9 in the league:

http://overthecap.com/position/tight-end/

FWIW, Gronk is listed as #5.

I agree with Toruk, he has earned every penny of that contract.

If you want to talk about overpaid, look at some of the names on that list above Witten.

 

[dragon_mikal]

Hey look another bash so and so thread. It's bad enough when it's a JAG but when it's a 1st ballot HoFer it's embarrassing.

 

[Setackin]

This is why I hate restructuring contracts

 

[robjay04]

I've said for years that Witten was overpaid as a tight end.

This idea that he is a players coach is 100 percent ridiculous. His job isn't to coach, nor has his "coaching" lead us to win anything significant.

Love Witten, but he is terribly overpaid.

He's been one of the better players at his position during that span.

I don't want to do the math but I would bet that he has been at least top 5 at his position for the last 5 years.

He's been overpaid the last two years because of the restructures. You got to give him his guaranteed money at some point. His current contract as far as guaranteed money per year is 14th in the league. That goes to show you that his original deal was a bargain when it was signed. The restructures make it appear he's overpaid now.

I would love to get another player in there but he's still a reliable target, 6th out of all tight ends in receptions and proved to be an important safety valve for Dak's developement.

Witten still produces. You want to see overpaid? Look at Tyrone Crawford

 

[erod]

Contract numbers:

Gronkowski:

Term ---------- SB -------- Avg salary ------------ guaranteed money


6 yr ($54 M) -------- $8,000,000 ------------- $9,000,000 ---------- $12,920,000

Witten:

Term ________ SB ________ Avg salary ---------------- guaranteed money

5yr ($37M) ------------- $12,500,000 ----------- $7,400,000 ---------- $ 19,532,000


Gronkowski is twice the player Witten is at this point in their careers and its not even close. Witten's signing bonus and guaranteed money are actually higher than Gronk's in spite of Gronkowski being signed for a year longer.

Gronk costs an average of $1,600,000 more per year but he is worth a hell of a lot more than $1.6 M more per year than Witten. This is one reason why you we choose not to sign free agent defenders.

Witten has played 163 consecutive games for Dallas.

Gronk makes Romo look indestructible.

 

[Idgit]

This is why I hate restructuring contracts

Witten's maybe one of the worst examples one could use for the problem with restructuring a contract.

But then I also don't agree that Gronkowski is twice the player Jason is, either.

 

[Clove]

Witten is not explosive. We need explosive players on this team, Witten can be TE #2.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

He's been one of the better players at his position during that span.

I don't want to do the math but I would bet that he has been at least top 5 at his position for the last 5 years.

He's been overpaid the last two years because of the restructures. You got to give him his guaranteed money at some point. His current contract as far as guaranteed money per year is 14th in the league. That goes to show you that his original deal was a bargain when it was signed. The restructures make it appear he's overpaid now.

I would love to get another player in there but he's still a reliable target, 6th out of all tight ends in receptions and proved to be an important safety valve for Dak's developement.

Witten still produces. You want to see overpaid? Look at Tyrone Crawford

The restructures don't make him overpaid. They just mean that we substituted a lower cap hit in a past year when the salary cap was smaller for a larger cap hit in a future year when the salary cap was similarly higher.

It's really amazing that this is still a controversial topic/discussion point.

The NFL Salary cap is not grade school math but it's a simple enough concept to grasp with even a cursory attempt.

 

[robjay04]

The restructures don't make him overpaid. They just mean that we substituted a lower cap hit in a past year when the salary cap was smaller for a larger cap hit in a future year when the salary cap was similarly higher.

It's really amazing that this is still a controversial topic/discussion point.

The NFL Salary cap is not grade school math but it's a simple enough concept to grasp with even a cursory attempt.

It makes an appearance that he is overpaid is what I meant. Over 12 million for 2017 does look kind of gross but the number is misleading, you look at the entire scope of the contract which apparent the OP did not.

 

[Galian Beast]

This wasn't about his restructures his average salary is way higher than it should have been.

He definitely hasn't been a top 5 tight end. I hate to say it but Martellus Bennett is a much better tight end than him right now.

Jordan Reed
Rob Gronkowski
Travis Kelce
Greg Olsen
Jimmy Graham
Martellus Bennett
Kyle Rudolph
Zach Ertz
Delanie Walker

Maybe even Coby Fleener and probably Julius Thomas if he doesn't go to the Jaguars.

 

[robjay04]

This wasn't about his restructures his average salary is way higher than it should have been.

He definitely hasn't been a top 5 tight end. I hate to say it but Martellus Bennett is a much better tight end than him right now.

Jordan Reed
Rob Gronkowski
Travis Kelce
Greg Olsen
Jimmy Graham
Martellus Bennett
Kyle Rudolph
Zach Ertz
Delanie Walker

Maybe even Coby Fleener and probably Julius Thomas if he doesn't go to the Jaguars.

A lot of the players you listed do make more than him as far as yearly average goes so I'm not sure your point. His yearly average is 9th in the league.

How many of those players have been better over the entire 5 year period?

Witten has caught 393 balls over the past 5 years, I would like you to show me how many of those players have done that.

I am not doing the math but I would guess somewhere between 0 and 2.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

This wasn't about his restructures his average salary is way higher than it should have been.

He definitely hasn't been a top 5 tight end. I hate to say it but Martellus Bennett is a much better tight end than him right now.

Jordan Reed
Rob Gronkowski
Travis Kelce
Greg Olsen
Jimmy Graham
Martellus Bennett
Kyle Rudolph
Zach Ertz
Delanie Walker

Maybe even Coby Fleener and probably Julius Thomas if he doesn't go to the Jaguars.

When Witten's cap hit was 4.3mm and his base salary was 940,000 in 2013 were you arguing he was underpaid?

Witten has earned all 37mm and its not even remotely controversial.

 

[xwalker]

Contract numbers:

Gronkowski:

Term ---------- SB -------- Avg salary ------------ guaranteed money


6 yr ($54 M) -------- $8,000,000 ------------- $9,000,000 ---------- $12,920,000

Witten:

Term ________ SB ________ Avg salary ---------------- guaranteed money

5yr ($37M) ------------- $12,500,000 ----------- $7,400,000 ---------- $ 19,532,000


Gronkowski is twice the player Witten is at this point in their careers and its not even close. Witten's signing bonus and guaranteed money are actually higher than Gronk's in spite of Gronkowski being signed for a year longer.

Gronk costs an average of $1,600,000 more per year but he is worth a hell of a lot more than $1.6 M more per year than Witten. This is one reason why you we choose not to sign free agent defenders.

Both were probably under paid.

Let's make is easier.

Witten (5-years, 37M) vs Gronk (6-years, 54M).

Witten Contract - 2011
Gronk Contract - 2012

The guaranteed money is long gone. A signing bonus can only be prorated over 5 years which would be 2011-2015. Any remaining prorated money against Witten's contract is due to restructures. The restructures were to pay other players.

If you think that the Cowboys gave out a bad contract to Witten, then you just don't understand NFL contracts.

In terms of a comparison to Gronk:
Games Started:
Year -- Witten -- Gronk
2011 16 16
2012 16 11
2013 16 6
2014 16 10
2015 16 15
2016 16 6