Witten vs. Gronkowski (contract/performance)

[Yakuza Rich]

Gronk is the best pure receiving TE I've ever seen. Problem is that he has back issues. I don't care for the guy, but I wouldn't wish back surgery on anybody because every non-surgeon I've talked to over the past 20 years has said the last thing you want to do is have back surgery. This was my worry with Romo...back surgeries only have about a 40% chance of working and chances are they may work and then you re-injure your back.

Witten doesn't have the back issues and to me, that's very important. I think Witten is the best blocking/pass receiving TE over the past 10-15 years and this is an offense that relies on the TE and really runs at its best when it can perform effectively out of 12 personnel because now you can use both 11 and 12 personnel. I think people really underestimate the importance of Witten's blocking in this scheme and our offensive philosophy. And quite frankly, Jason Witten and the money he has been paid is not the reason we didn't make it to the Super Bowl.

This is a bit of a concern for me is we may really like Rico Gathers and he may become an even more effective receiving threat than Witten has been, but if he can't block I wonder how well the offense will adjust to that.






YR

 

[DCBoysfan]

So its Witten's fault the Dline wasn't upgraded? Who knew!!!

 

[Satchel89]

I don't care. Witten will be in the Hall Of Fame. I know Gronk is a better player at this point but we don't even know how much longer Gronk is going to play. He seems to get injured a lot. I don't understand why someone would care what he gets paid.

 

[AbeBeta]

This is why I hate restructuring contracts

It is dumb not to restructure as with an ever rising cap, you end up using a smaller proportion of the cap space in subsequent years.

And look for another restructure with a couple years added this offseason. If he chooses to retire it means we can split his hit between 17 and 18

 

[gimmesix]

Contract numbers:

Gronkowski:

Term ---------- SB -------- Avg salary ------------ guaranteed money


6 yr ($54 M) -------- $8,000,000 ------------- $9,000,000 ---------- $12,920,000

Witten:

Term ________ SB ________ Avg salary ---------------- guaranteed money

5yr ($37M) ------------- $12,500,000 ----------- $7,400,000 ---------- $ 19,532,000


Gronkowski is twice the player Witten is at this point in their careers and its not even close. Witten's signing bonus and guaranteed money are actually higher than Gronk's in spite of Gronkowski being signed for a year longer.

Gronk costs an average of $1,600,000 more per year but he is worth a hell of a lot more than $1.6 M more per year than Witten. This is one reason why you we choose not to sign free agent defenders.

$1.6 million per year over a six-year deal adds up to almost $10 million. Considering that Gronkowski hasn't played all 16 games in a season since 2011, I'd say we've been getting a bargain in comparison. Maybe we need to redo Witten's contract and give him some more money.

 

[dfense]

What is the point of this thread?

 

[joseephuss]

This wasn't about his restructures his average salary is way higher than it should have been.

He definitely hasn't been a top 5 tight end. I hate to say it but Martellus Bennett is a much better tight end than him right now.

Jordan Reed
Rob Gronkowski
Travis Kelce
Greg Olsen
Jimmy Graham
Martellus Bennett
Kyle Rudolph
Zach Ertz
Delanie Walker

Maybe even Coby Fleener and probably Julius Thomas if he doesn't go to the Jaguars.

Julius Thomas? That is a joke. Same with Delanie Walker.

You have a history of knocking Witten. You have said numerous times that he won't be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

Witten has played 163 consecutive games for Dallas.

Gronk makes Romo look indestructible.

This.

Comparing someone available for every game to someone available for half the games is hilarious.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

Hey look another bash so and so thread. It's bad enough when it's a JAG but when it's a 1st ballot HoFer it's embarrassing.

More threads like this for Dak will come around once the season starts again...

 

[Nightman]

I see. Wittens cap number doesn't count because it's Wiiten. That's brilliant.

Here are the real Witten cap numbers since 2011......that's a brilliant use of resources

5m
5.5m
4.3m
8.4
6.1m
5.8m

 

[gimmesix]

It is dumb not to restructure as with an ever rising cap, you end up using a smaller proportion of the cap space in subsequent years.

And look for another restructure with a couple years added this offseason. If he chooses to retire it means we can split his hit between 17 and 18

I think a lot of fans fail to understand the purpose of restructuring. It isn't to add years to contract, no team wants to do that.

The size of the contracts it takes to keep your best players while being able to add players and stay competitive has forced the reality of restructuring into play. Competitive contracts would break a team without the ability to convert salary into bonus and spread out the cap hit. It allows the team more money to use on its current cap while setting it up so that the dead cap hit for the player ultimately will be smaller than the amount the team would pay if he remained on the team.

Dallas seems to have mastered the art of restructuring and we should be happy about that because it means we can keep players like Smith, Frederick and Martin at market value without having to sacrifice adding other players we need. I know that some here are worried about being able to afford Martin and do that, but there's already a restructuring plan in place, built into the team's previous big deals, to open up the cap space necessary for Martin and whatever other players the team wants to pursue.

 

[blumayne38]

Contract numbers:

Gronkowski:

Term ---------- SB -------- Avg salary ------------ guaranteed money


6 yr ($54 M) -------- $8,000,000 ------------- $9,000,000 ---------- $12,920,000

Witten:

Term ________ SB ________ Avg salary ---------------- guaranteed money

5yr ($37M) ------------- $12,500,000 ----------- $7,400,000 ---------- $ 19,532,000


Gronkowski is twice the player Witten is at this point in their careers and its not even close. Witten's signing bonus and guaranteed money are actually higher than Gronk's in spite of Gronkowski being signed for a year longer.

Gronk costs an average of $1,600,000 more per year but he is worth a hell of a lot more than $1.6 M more per year than Witten. This is one reason why you we choose not to sign free agent defenders.

Good question but to each team both players have diff value...so Witten to dallas is more valuable then gronk to NE if you ask me NE overpaid fot gronk giving the recent injuries gronk has had..

 

[CowboysBravesSpurs]

Witten is not explosive. We need explosive players on this team, Witten can be TE #2.

Lol explosive? How many of those "explosive" Tight ends can block at the level Witten has his whole career? Witten is a great rout runner with great hands who can block better than any other tight end in the league. I'll take that over Glass Gronkowski. This thread is ridiculous. Such disrespect.

 

[Verdict]

Lol explosive? How many of those "explosive" Tight ends can block at the level Witten has his whole career? Witten is a great rout runner with great hands who can block better than any other tight end in the league. I'll take that over Glass Gronkowski. This thread is ridiculous. Such disrespect.

Jason Witten has historically blocked well, but those days are long gone.

 

[Verdict]

Gronk is the best pure receiving TE I've ever seen. Problem is that he has back issues. I don't care for the guy, but I wouldn't wish back surgery on anybody because every non-surgeon I've talked to over the past 20 years has said the last thing you want to do is have back surgery. This was my worry with Romo...back surgeries only have about a 40% chance of working and chances are they may work and then you re-injure your back.

Witten doesn't have the back issues and to me, that's very important. I think Witten is the best blocking/pass receiving TE over the past 10-15 years and this is an offense that relies on the TE and really runs at its best when it can perform effectively out of 12 personnel because now you can use both 11 and 12 personnel. I think people really underestimate the importance of Witten's blocking in this scheme and our offensive philosophy. And quite frankly, Jason Witten and the money he has been paid is not the reason we didn't make it to the Super Bowl.

This is a bit of a concern for me is we may really like Rico Gathers and he may become an even more effective receiving threat than Witten has been, but if he can't block I wonder how well the offense will adjust to that.

YR

I agree with you that Witten is probably the best overall tight end to play in the past 15 years. But Witten's best blocking days are far in the rear view mirror. I don't see how someone can objectively watch Witten play and believe that he is anywhere near the player he was several years ago. It's just not there anymore.

He is as wiley as ever and he uses that to his advantage in breaking down a defense AND he has great hands. But he can't get depth of routes anymore and his speed is not adequate. His blocking has been very sporadic and that may be putting it a bit kindly.

 

[perrykemp]

Witten is a great rout runner with great hands who can block better than any other tight end in the league.

Witten is a great player, a 1st ballot HOF TE if there ever was one, however, I think you are over-estimating his blocking a bit.

He is a very good positional blocker these days -- definitely more of an asset than a liability, however, he isn't just isn't in the same category of either Gronk OR even Marcellus Bennett in terms of run blocking.

No shame in it.