World Cup 2014

[AbeBeta]

I didn't think Cillessen looked that good at all. He looked very bad against Mexico. He seemed so unsure of himself on several shot attempts in that game. He got subbed out for what was the third string keeper, Krul before going to PKs against Costa Rica. That is very telling. He did nothing during the PKs against Argentina. I don't think he starred in any way during the tournament. Especially compared to other keepers who seemed to play very well during the last month.

Three straight games with a clean sheet. You do that and your team should win. PKs are a total crapshoot. Most goals are just ones put in a spot that it is impossible for the goaltender. Most non-goals are straight misses. Being subbed for was about mind games, nothing more.

It is a shame some of the better keepers got run so early.

 

[joseephuss]

Three straight games with a clean sheet. You do that and your team should win. PKs are a total crapshoot. Most goals are just ones put in a spot that it is impossible for the goaltender. Most non-goals are straight misses. Being subbed for was about mind games, nothing more.

It is a shame some of the better keepers got run so early.

He was hardly a major factor in those clean sheets. He wasn't tested near as much as other keepers in the tourney. Romero for example also kept 3 straight clean sheets and then contributed to Germany not scoring in regulation. He was also very dynamic throughout the tournament. Cillessen maybe had one or two memorable saves the entire tournament. Other keepers would get 1 or 2 a game.

If subbing him out was all about mind games, then they would have just inserted the 2nd string keeper.

I don't rate him in the top 5 for this tournament. There were several guys who played much better. The two guys in the final match were better.

 

[AbeBeta]

He was hardly a major factor in those clean sheets. He wasn't tested near as much as other keepers in the tourney. Romero for example also kept 3 straight clean sheets and then contributed to Germany not scoring in regulation. He was also very dynamic throughout the tournament. Cillessen maybe had one or two memorable saves the entire tournament. Other keepers would get 1 or 2 a game.

If subbing him out was all about mind games, then they would have just inserted the 2nd string keeper.

I don't rate him in the top 5 for this tournament. There were several guys who played much better. The two guys in the final match were better.

If subbing for him weren't about mind games, they'd have done it again.

And I assume you agree with me on Robben

 

[joseephuss]

If subbing for him weren't about mind games, they'd have done it again.

And I assume you agree with me on Robben

Robben had a great tournament. He was deserving of the Golden Ball award. He finished third behind Messi and Muller. Muller would have been a good choice, too.

Holland couldn't sub in Krul again for their game against Argentina. Unfortunately for them, Van Persie was not able to go the full 120 and had to be subbed out. He was limping around and barely moving early into extended time. They had no choice, but to use that third sub and not save it for another keeper move.

What I found strange today while listening to Talksport on SiriusXM was that a few people had the opinion that Messi should be ashamed for accepting the Golden Ball award. He wasn't the most deserving player of this tournament, but I am not sure what he was supposed to do. He would have come across as a sore loser if he turned down the award. I don't get some of the criticism that guy gets at times.

 

[MC KAos]

id have given the golden ball to James Rodriguez

 

[AbeBeta]

Robben had a great tournament. He was deserving of the Golden Ball award. He finished third behind Messi and Muller. Muller would have been a good choice, too.

Holland couldn't sub in Krul again for their game against Argentina. Unfortunately for them, Van Persie was not able to go the full 120 and had to be subbed out. He was limping around and barely moving early into extended time. They had no choice, but to use that third sub and not save it for another keeper move.

What I found strange today while listening to Talksport on SiriusXM was that a few people had the opinion that Messi should be ashamed for accepting the Golden Ball award. He wasn't the most deserving player of this tournament, but I am not sure what he was supposed to do. He would have come across as a sore loser if he turned down the award. I don't get some of the criticism that guy gets at times.

Messi was outstanding. No shame in his performance. He is likely the best player in the world (although I think Saurez and James will overtake him). Robben, though was the guy who you always noticed

 

[RastaRocket]

Messi was outstanding. No shame in his performance. He is likely the best player in the world (although I think Saurez and James will overtake him). Robben, though was the guy who you always noticed

Not a chance IMO. For one, Suarez is the same age as Messi and he has had a fraction of Messi's career; while having a fantastic career himself. Messi and Ronaldo are once in a generation talents (more like once in a few generations talents). James is outstanding as well, but he is already 23. Messi had 3 Ballon D'Or awards by the time he was 24 years old. It's no contest, and the same can be said about Ronaldo.

 

[joseephuss]

Messi had a down year by his standards, which was still pretty great. Although since it was a down year some people thought he had a bad year. He scored 41 goals for his club at 0.89 goals per game. Suarez had a very good year and scored 31 goals for his club at 0.84 goals per game.

It will be interesting to see if Messi, Suarez and Neymar can all share the ball this upcoming season.

 

[joseephuss]

Messi was outstanding. No shame in his performance. He is likely the best player in the world (although I think Saurez and James will overtake him). Robben, though was the guy who you always noticed

I agree. Messi was outstanding. I have no problem with his performance in the tournament. I heard if Robben didn't have such a reputation for flopping he may have won the golden ball. Seems plausible that guys in the press who vote on such awards would hold something like that against him. It is the reason I don't like him as a player, but it was difficult not to notice how well he played this tournament.

 

[jterrell]

Three straight games with a clean sheet. You do that and your team should win. PKs are a total crapshoot. Most goals are just ones put in a spot that it is impossible for the goaltender. Most non-goals are straight misses. Being subbed for was about mind games, nothing more.

It is a shame some of the better keepers got run so early.

No offense but this is incorrect.
Krul is a specialist and he actually stopped shots, not relied on misses.
He had a very large impact on them winning in PKs one game versus losing the next.

Vlaar was far better as fullback than Cil was in goal.
not that Cil was anywhere near bad but he wasn;t worthy of top 3 or 4 consideration in this Cup when others saved double digit on target shots.
Cil was a much lesser version of Nauer.

Clean sheets over the course of a lot of games very much matter but saves is a more important total in seperating out individual play.

I could have played GK behind Germany for sure and possibly the Dutch.

 

[AbeBeta]

No offense but this is incorrect.
Krul is a specialist and he actually stopped shots, not relied on misses.
He had a very large impact on them winning in PKs one game versus losing the next.

Vlaar was far better as fullback than Cil was in goal.
not that Cil was anywhere near bad but he wasn;t worthy of top 3 or 4 consideration in this Cup when others saved double digit on target shots.
Cil was a much lesser version of Nauer.

Clean sheets over the course of a lot of games very much matter but saves is a more important total in seperating out individual play.

I could have played GK behind Germany for sure and possibly the Dutch.

Krul is a specialist?

In the last four season at Newcastle, Krul saved two penalty kicks of 20 faced. That's a specialist? 10%?

 

[jterrell]

Krul is a specialist?

In the last four season at Newcastle, Krul saved two penalty kicks of 20 faced. That's a specialist? 10%?

He trained PKs for this cup(as a 3rd keeper he wasn't going to play nay other way). And it showed.
That is why a sub was used to bring him on over a GK having a nice run of success.
Krul stopped two on target shots out of the 5.

Cil had no such luck the next game.

Was it all a Van Gaal head game to keep him involved? Maybe but if so it paid off big-time.

Cil looked terrible as a PK stopper. Really never even close to proving troublesome for Argentina.

 

[AbeBeta]

He trained PKs for this cup(as a 3rd keeper he wasn't going to play nay other way). And it showed.
That is why a sub was used to bring him on over a GK having a nice run of success.
Krul stopped two on target shots out of the 5.

Cil had no such luck the next game.

Was it all a Van Gaal head game to keep him involved? Maybe but if so it paid off big-time.

Cil looked terrible as a PK stopper. Really never even close to proving troublesome for Argentina.

You used the right word there ... luck.

Goalies have little chance on PKs. They dive one way or the other, it is little more than a guess.

As I noted Krul has stopped a total of two in his time at Newcastle. I bet they wish he'd trained for PKs.

 

[jterrell]

You used the right word there ... luck.

Goalies have little chance on PKs. They dive one way or the other, it is little more than a guess.

As I noted Krul has stopped a total of two in his time at Newcastle. I bet they wish he'd trained for PKs.

Abe, you are a sharp guy but this is ignorance of soccer shining through.

Krul studied the PK attempts of players he was facing in the WC because those games are often decided by such things.
He wasn't lucky, he was good.

In the EPL the PKs come from fouls and it is generally only the very best guy on each team taking the attempt.
No one studies them much because they aren't used for determining the games winner.
After facing 20 in his EPL career he faced 5 in one game and walked away a hero.

The fact he told the CR players he knew which way they were gonna go may have been a factor but his extra height/length over jasper definitely was.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

you flatter yourself and your sport that you are important enough to hate.

Marathon running is much tougher and I could care less about it then soccer.

the appropriate phrase is "couldn't care less" marine

for someone who hates soccer, you sure have a lot to write about it

 

[AbeBeta]

Abe, you are a sharp guy but this is ignorance of soccer shining through.

Krul studied the PK attempts of players he was facing in the WC because those games are often decided by such things.
He wasn't lucky, he was good.

In the EPL the PKs come from fouls and it is generally only the very best guy on each team taking the attempt.
No one studies them much because they aren't used for determining the games winner.
After facing 20 in his EPL career he faced 5 in one game and walked away a hero.

The fact he told the CR players he knew which way they were gonna go may have been a factor but his extra height/length over jasper definitely was.

JT, obviously any GK is going to study those things. What do you think soccer players do? Just run out on the field and play?

You are correct about the difference between PK and shootouts - but the difference is not as large as you think http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/a-chart-for-predicting-penalty-shootout-odds-in-real-time/

 

[burmafrd]

Canadian chump:


I am easily bored and whenever you are around you make an easy target; otherwise I usually enjoy pricking over inflated balloons. and the soccer homers are around right now to make fun of. They will fade back into the woodwork soon enough; and I doubt I will be around much in 4 years when they reappear and make their eternally funny claims about soccer's importance in the US.

By the way don't you have a moose to hump?

 

[joseephuss]

No one here has made a claim about the importance of soccer in the U.S.. You just keep bringing it up as something to yell at. You want to be mad, so you make up stuff to be mad about.

 

[burmafrd]

No one here has made a claim about the importance of soccer in the U.S.. You just keep bringing it up as something to yell at. You want to be mad, so you make up stuff to be mad about.

no one has made the claim? What planet are you currently living on?

 

[jterrell]

JT, obviously any GK is going to study those things. What do you think soccer players do? Just run out on the field and play?

You are correct about the difference between PK and shootouts - but the difference is not as large as you think http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/a-chart-for-predicting-penalty-shootout-odds-in-real-time/

This is all minor stuff but logically a guy who has nothing to do but study PKs for an attempt to play in that situation is at an advantage over a GK who has to worry about everything else. That is what Van Gaal indicated made his decision to go to Krul. And it looked very smart.

Cil is a good goal keeper who had a very good tourney but he only had 18 saves in 7 saves. That was basically one game for Tim Howard ....

If I can take one GK away from this tourney going forward it is Courtois because he is so young and athletic and good and tied to Chelsea.... but Cil is a very appealing player. All that said, if I am awarding best GK I want the guy who made the most difference in games by stopping shots. Nauer had 25 saves... tho they were often pedestrian ones because the German defense was together all tourney. Cil had far less because the Dutch were picking out passes and stopping them even reaching the 18.

If you wanted to build a club around Jasper Cil I'd not argue that decision.