Wow, semi-bombshell on 103.3 re: Parcells & Drafts

[Rack]

So if we don't give credit for Newman, it also means that we DON'T give blame for Al Johnson

Can all of you handle that?

That's the double edged sword people hate.


Nice one.

 

[percyhoward]

He said Parcells' parameters were almost too hard to meet on OL, so he forced some things. (I wish he'd explained that further.)

He seems to have a long, elaborate list of qualities or traits to seek out for every position. (size, strength, balance, lateral movement, etc.) The first time I heard him read one of these lists on ESPN radio, I thought, 'Man, he's really got this down to a science,' then he just goes on and on, piling on more and more required skills. Then pauses. Then reads off 5 or 6 more, and you just have to laugh, because most Hall of Famers wouldn't fit completely within all the parameters.

The irony is, that I think some of his picks just came down to gut feeling or vague familiarity with the player based on some kind of family tie (or coaching tie). There's no denying that he made a lot of good ones, though. And definitely more than just an improvement over Lacewell, who could have done better by throwing darts at the draft board.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Bryan Broaddus was a scout with the team for several years -- until, I believe, 2006.

Well, Galloway and Hensen were having a discussion on Parcells and his drafts. Galloway said look at the 2003 draft -- it was great with Newman, Witten, and Bradie. Broaddus texted in, "Don't give Parcells credit for 2003." So they asked him to call in with more explanation.

He said you could give Parcells credit for Witten, because he was good at evaluating TEs and he preferred Witten over LJ Smith. But Parcells wanted NO PART of Terence Newman. The guy he really wanted was Dwayne Robertson, and he fought Ciskowski (sp?) and the other scouts over Newman. Finally, he just gave up and said, okay, you guys take who you want.

He said Parcells' first draft was more about evaluating the scouts he would be working with over evaluating the players they'd take. He mainly sat back and observed how the scouts worked.

Asked what he thought about Parcells' evaluating skills, Broaddus said that Parcells was good at certain positions like TE and LB, and weak at others, like OL. He said Parcells' parameters were almost too hard to meet on OL, so he forced some things. (I wish he'd explained that further.)

Anyway... There were always rumors to that effect, but it's the first time I've heard it really confirmed.

Feel free to discuss.

Great story. I wonder how much of it is true?

 

[Juke99]

Much as I disliked the Dallas Cowboys' version of Bill Parcells, this stuff doesn't strike me as a negative about him.

I'm sure coaches all have different strengths and weakneses when it comes to evaluating talent. In fact, some of them have nothing to do with talent evaluation.

So, I'd assume this is pretty typical stuff.

I think that the positive that Parcells gave to the organization was putting a professional structure in place. It's hard to see that because it's not tangible.

So, while he may have swung and missed on some players in the draft, I'm sure he had a big hand in structuring the staff...scouts...how the draft room operated...etc. And stuff like that is his legacy.

Fact of the matter is, he was a much better GM than he was a coach.

 

[CPonder14]

Damn, that 05' draft was special

Ware
Spears
Burnett
Barber
Canty
Beriault
Petitti
Ratliff

 

[dbair1967]

not sure that this is really anything new...it was common knowledge that Parcells really like Robertson and Kevin Williams...Robertson has proven to be an avg player at best, but he was off the board before we picked Newman anyway...we didnt pick Newman over Robertson, but had we had the opportunity, I hope they would have

we really got lucky on Witten...he should have drafted him with our next pick (the one we wasted on Al Johnson)...fortunately alot of other teams were really stupid as well, and we still got him...some draft pubs had Witten rated as a 1st rd pick

David

 

[dbair1967]

are you sure it wasn't kevin williams? dewayne robertson was picked ahead of the cowboys so there wasn't a debate.

if they had to do it over again, kevin williams is a better pick

btw that draft was pretty good

Newman is a better player IMO than Kevin Williams, and he plays a far more important position...

Newman is a true shutdown CB, there arnt many of those in the league anymore

David

 

[abrittain]

Exactly.

But that won't stop the overbearing hate that's about to ensue...

What you call hate other might call having a different opinion.

Dallas may be an awesome contender for years to come because of the team he helped assemble. For that I will give him credit and be very thankful.

However, I maintain that he was very underwhelming as the coach. Has nothing to do with hate, but I am still extremely glad he is out of here.

 

[dallasfan]

Damn, that 05' draft was special

Ware
Spears
Burnett
Barber
Canty
Beriault
Petitti
Ratliff

I was thinking about this the other day. If we go on to win a superbowl, maybe multiple superbowls, it will be because of the 05' draft.

 

[Bach]

Asked what he thought about Parcells' evaluating skills, Broaddus said that Parcells was good at certain positions like TE and LB, and weak at others, like OL.

How do we explain Carpenter? Must be the son of a former player thing.

 

[vta]

Come on. Does it really seem like a coincidence that things suddenly got better once Parcells showed up?

I know we all hate the way Keshawn is acting over it, but let's not pretend Parcells isn't a major reason this team has gone from Jerry/Campo time folly to a legitimate team.

TO said it himself, the proof is in the pudding. The stats don't lie. This team is 100% better since Parcells' time in Dallas. Don't let the media hype, looking for any angle throw water on a great Cowboy team fool you.

All events of the past 4 years go hand in hand. Bill did a great job of constructing it; Wade, Jason and the players are doing a great job of running with it.

I'm glad Bill came in, I'm glad Wade and the assistants came in. It all works together to make a great team.

:starspin

 

[VThokie7]

I give Parcells all the credit in the world for turning us around and getting some major pieces in position; however, how good do you have to be at judging talent to select Witten in the 3rd round? I remember how much of a player Witten was at Tenn. and was in shock he wasn't in the 1st round as projected. We got very lucky that he fell.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

no one will argue that bp was weak at OL

 

[TheSkaven]

We didn't have a choice between L.J. Smith and Witten in that draft. The Eagles were up first and they took L.J. Smith. Thank the Lord. Ever mock I had seen had the Eagles taking Witten.

That's also the year the Eagles traded up for McDougle, and also took Billy McMullen. There's a reason why some teams are 12-1 and others are 5-8.

 

[AdamJT13]

http://www.cowboysplus.com/topstory/stories/042207cpcowlede.324b331.html

Cowboys scouts' influence on draft grows

Coaches will have a voice, but personnel people will be key

11:55 AM CDT on Thursday, May 17, 2007

By CALVIN WATKINS / The Dallas Morning News
cwatkins@***BANNED-URL***

IRVING – The Cowboys are depending on scouts more than ever for the upcoming NFL draft.

And conflicts such as one with former coach Bill Parcells should be a thing of the past.

The night before the 2003 draft, scouts and personnel people wanted the team to draft Terence Newman, the cornerback from Kansas State, if he was available.

Parcells preferred Oklahoma State defensive tackle Kevin Williams.

Owner/general manager Jerry Jones took Parcells out to dinner and convinced him Newman was the better choice. The next day, Dallas selected Newman as the No. 5 pick in the first round, and he's started every game since.

"It's been off and on," said Larry Lacewell, the Cowboys' retired scouting director, who worked with Parcells in his first two seasons in Dallas. "Under Parcells, it was him. Before, it was scouts and whoever. ... We got Jerry and Stephen [Jones] to take him out and made him mad and told him we're going to take Newman."

Coaches wanting one player and scouts wanting another is a common occurrence in NFL draft rooms.

Under new coach Wade Phillips, scouts and personnel men will have more say than ever.

Phillips wants his coaches to focus on evaluating the current roster. Offensive coordinator Jason Garrett will implement new terminology and plays. Brian Stewart, the new defensive coordinator, is in charge of teaching the new way the 3-4 defense will be employed.

Coaches will still be involved, Jerry Jones said. "Just not as much. Again, that's more about the coaches giving information to your scouts. That's always what that was about, educating your scouts to the kind of skills and players that coaches might be interested in."

The change in thinking is the result of Parcells' departure at a time of year when coaches take a more active role in evaluating college talent, and the short time the new Cowboys coaches have had in scouting players.

Before Parcells retired Jan. 22, he had been scheduled to travel to the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., with Jeff Ireland, the Cowboys' vice president of college and pro scouting, the scouts and Jerry Jones.

Ireland and his crew left without Parcells and Jones.

Jones had to find a new coach, and Ireland and his staff interviewed and reviewed tape of every player in the Senior Bowl.

Ireland said it was a difficult situation because he wasn't sure what a new coach was looking for. But, he said, if you do your homework in evaluating players, you can find them for any coach.

"Jeff does a pretty darn good job at what he does," said Gil Brandt, the Cowboys' former vice president of player personnel who now works for NFL.com. "Look at what he's done the past few drafts, to get a [Patrick] Watkins in the fifth round and people like that. It's not hard to find a Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson. It's when you get in the second day of the draft, that's when it's hard."

When Phillips was hired on Feb. 8, Ireland was relieved, but he didn't know the new coach. He called friends who had worked with Phillips and was told he was direct, had excellent people skills and has a great knowledge of football.

Ireland trusted those people, and because he worked with Phillips' former boss in San Diego, Marty Schottenheimer, that was good enough for him.

Having scouts running things isn't such a big deal, Brandt and Jerry Jones said.

"I don't think it makes any difference, because they have a good system in place," Brandt said. "Jeff knows what the system is, and he's got experienced scouts that know what the system is."

Said Jerry Jones: "Theoretically, it's not supposed to be any different. It's that potential lobbying that you might have gotten [from the coaches] that might have influenced the draft board that you really shouldn't do. The guys that spend 100 percent of their time [scouting], that's what should be on the board."

 

[D-TownRadio]

In any good draft warroom there will be differences of opinions on players.

You can nit pick a few of Parcells picks but all in all he did a great job upgrading talent since 2002/2003

And as far as I am concerned major kudo's for evaluating Romo > Chutch and Romo > Henson. Without Parcells we could be back with the Dolphins, Falcons and Raiders of the world....

Thank you Bill -

HAHAHAHAHA I know you must be joking! That Twit Parcells didn't even want Romo.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Yes, I love to hear Larry Lacewell crow about how they "discovered' Terrence Newman with the 5th pick in the draft. Good one Larry. Of course, he doesn't talk as much to the media about his keen eye for cornerback talent when it comes to the Dewayne Goodrich, Charlie Williams, Mario Edwards, Kareem Larrimore, Lee Vaughn, Wendall Davis and Kenny Wheaton picks (just off the top of my head ... I'm sure there were more).

Here's my little personal annecdote...

One year I took my sister,brother in law, niece and nephew to Six Flags when they were visiting from out of town. We were standing in line for a ride and a family standing next to us decked out head to toe in Cowboys gear. I asked them how they thought the Cowboys were going to do that year, and they said they didn't know ... they really hadn't kept up with the Cowboys much before. Their son, Charlie Williams, had just been drafted by the Cowboys in the 3rd round. They were in town to help him get settled in. I remarked that he was kind of a surprise pick to most people (i didn't say reach), and asked them if they knew that was about where he would be drafted. They said they were absolutely shocked. They were told he was probably going to be a 5th-7th round draft pick from all the teams that had talked to him.

If Parcells was highly skeptical and not exactly trusting of the scouting department he inherited it only shows that he had a functioning brain and the ability to access the 1996-2002 draft archives on the interwebs.

 

[Nors]

HAHAHAHAHA I know you must be joking! That Twit Parcells didn't even want Romo.

you been watching what Parcells did for Romo?

 

[wileedog]

He said Parcells' first draft was more about evaluating the scouts he would be working with over evaluating the players they'd take. He mainly sat back and observed how the scouts worked.

And this is why we have Jeff Ireland.

I agree with Juke above that in this incarnation Parcells was a probably a better GM than coach. But this approach is flat out smart.

 

[Nors]

And this is why we have Jeff Ireland.

I agree with Juke above that in this incarnation Parcells was a probably a better GM than coach. But this approach is flat out smart.

In many ways Ireland is Parcells as BB is to Pioli

I suspect in the 4 years they worked the knowledge and wisdom was transferred from Parcells.

The ringer is JJ, Doeas he go off the reservation like he did 1995-2002? Or trust his scouts and coaches? I think he's a smart man and realizes he's best staying out of football personell issues. If not we are in for another decade of decline in our roster....