WR Treashon Holden Hype

rambo2 said:
According to Bobby Belt, they like him and he has looked good in both open practices so far. I'll add that the best qb play that he has ever had was with Dart in college and he looked good then.
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Well i don't buy the QB excuse. He didn't have a good QB in Carolina but neither did the other 5 ahead of him who all outperformed him...he has had 0 exactly zero TD in NFL.... how can you even do that. Not even a garbage time TD or accidental one. Nothing. Turpin has out performed him in actual games played.

He is an Olympic athlete. Looks good in shorts until the games start and he is lost then.
 
CowboysFaninHouston said:
Well i don't buy the QB excuse. He didn't have a good QB in Carolina but neither did the other 5 ahead of him who all outperformed him...he has had 0 exactly zero TD in NFL.... how can you even do that. Not even a garbage time TD or accidental one. Nothing. Turpin has out performed him in actual games played.

He is an Olympic athlete. Looks good in shorts until the games start and he is lost then.
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He was wide open for a td last year and Rush could not get him the ball.
 
johneric8 said:
I've seen nothing from Tolbert in his tenure, quite honestly. He could be replaced with just about anyone. Mingo has way more upside in my opinion.
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I mean we'll see what happens now. For one, I'm not bagging on Mingo. I saw him in college and also thought those saying he could be like Deebo could have a point. But I wasn't saying it.

Maybe he ends up being a better fit. I'm not writing any of them off. I just think the competition should be wide open after Pickens.
 
Kingofholland said:
I don't think Tolbert is on the bubble, but if they have 4-5 guys playing well its not out of the realm of possibility the Cowboys field trade calls for him.
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He would have an advantage over many of these guys because he plays special teams. Hard to be active as a backup and not plsy ST
 
big dog cowboy said:
He has produced every time he has been given a chance.
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He is producing because he is open and a third or fourth option. Look, Mingo's stats aren't as good as Tolbert's, but I believe if he were put in the same position, he would be better. Mingo is a bigger, stronger guy, I'm interested to see how it shakes out... Tolbert is one of the Jones's boys so we know how they find favor.. I'm just not a fan of Tolbert. I feel like he is forced into the spot he is in out of need and not ability.. I think he has just enough talent and says all the right things...
 
rambo2 said:
I'm thinking that 4 players are locks.
Lamb
Pickens
Mingo
Turpin
4 others playing for 1 or 2 spots.
Tolbert
Flournoy
Cropper
Brooks
We now have excellent depth.
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Agree with this 100%. Turpin is the best return man in the league, hes a lock. They didnt trade for Mingo to not give him a shot to show what he can do.

I think Tolbert is very likely to make the team... but this is the last year of Tolbert's rookie deal. If a rookie wr and him are basically even, id take the rookie since I get 4 years of a rookie deal vs the last one with Tolbert. I think having Tolbert as your 4th or 5th wr is solid. But, Im guessing someone else in that room can do the same as Tolbert for cheaper.
 
johneric8 said:
He is producing because he is open and a third or fourth option. Look, Mingo's stats aren't as good as Tolbert's, but I believe if he were put in the same position, he would be better. Mingo is a bigger, stronger guy, I'm interested to see how it shakes out... Tolbert is one of the Jones's boys so we know how they find favor.. I'm just not a fan of Tolbert. I feel like he is forced into the spot he is in out of need and not ability.. I think he has just enough talent and says all the right things...
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I like Mingo. He played in the worst qb situation in th eleague on possibly the worst team in the league. Yet, somehow people are surprised he didnt "Produce?" Now with a full training camp about to be under his belt, lets judge hime.
 
Reid1boys said:
I like Mingo. He played in the worst qb situation in th eleague on possibly the worst team in the league. Yet, somehow people are surprised he didnt "Produce?" Now with a full training camp about to be under his belt, lets judge hime.
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This is what I'm saying.. If you look at the measurables, Mingo should be a much bigger problem for defenses than Tolbert... His situation with Carolina was horrible, and he gets thrown in with Rush... I think Mingo is better and will show it..
 
Reid1boys said:
Tolbert was in his 3rd year with the team. Mingo was with the team a few weeks.
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WR is maybe the most commonly in season traded positions in football. Guys transition to other teams pretty easy all the time. Amari Cooper came to Dallas and put up 5/58/1 against Tennessee his first week with the team. Good receivers tend to adjust to new teams pretty quick. A drive or stick concept is the same in Dallas as it is Denver, New York, or Cincinnati.

Reid1boys said:
I like Mingo. He played in the worst qb situation in th eleague on possibly the worst team in the league. Yet, somehow people are surprised he didnt "Produce?" Now with a full training camp about to be under his belt, lets judge hime.
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I do agree we need to give the kid camp to show what he can do, but the issue and reason for doubt isnt that he didnt produce in a tough situation. The concern is that he significantly underperformed compared to his peers catching passes from the same QBs. Not just in Dallas, but Carolina WRs also outproduced Mingo by a significant margin.

Mingo 27 targets, 12 catches for 121 yards on 185 routes
Thielen 61/48/615/299
Coker 45/32/478/278
Johnson 57/30/357/212
Legette 81/49/497/417

With Carolina he was the only WR to catch less than 50% of his targets, and record less yards than routes. Same situation in Dallas where he caught just 33% of his targets and recorded just .55 yards per route ran. Horrible numbers that can partially be put on the shoulders of the quarterbacks, but compared to his peers on both teams his ratios are significantly worse. He received 460 snaps last season so I dont think its strictly a low quantity of data issue throwing the numbers off either.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
WR is maybe the most commonly in season traded positions in football. Guys transition to other teams pretty easy all the time. Amari Cooper came to Dallas and put up 5/58/1 against Tennessee his first week with the team. Good receivers tend to adjust to new teams pretty quick. A drive or stick concept is the same in Dallas as it is Denver, New York, or Cincinnati.


I do agree we need to give the kid camp to show what he can do, but the issue and reason for doubt isnt that he didnt produce in a tough situation. The concern is that he significantly underperformed compared to his peers catching passes from the same QBs. Not just in Dallas, but Carolina WRs also outproduced Mingo by a significant margin.

Mingo 27 targets, 12 catches for 121 yards on 185 routes
Thielen 61/48/615/299
Coker 45/32/478/278
Johnson 57/30/357/212
Legette 81/49/497/417

With Carolina he was the only WR to catch less than 50% of his targets, and record less yards than routes. Same situation in Dallas where he caught just 33% of his targets and recorded just .55 yards per route ran. Horrible numbers that can partially be put on the shoulders of the quarterbacks, but compared to his peers on both teams his ratios are significantly worse. He received 460 snaps last season so I dont think its strictly a low quantity of data issue throwing the numbers off either.
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Wait, you are comparing a guy traded to a team to be their number 1 WR to a guy that was basically a nobody? Cooper came to Dallas, was immediately inserted in as a starter and given targets right away. Opportunity leads to production. Mingo was given no such thing. Mingo also came to Cooper Rush..... cmon. At least compare similar situations.

IN Carolin, once again look at the opportunity. You think Thielen was running the same kind of routes? I have no idea what Mingo can or cant do. But until the man gets an actual chance, nobody knows.All I know is I will NEVER forget Antonio Brown immediately going from the best WR in the NFL to not even being able to play himon my fantasy team when Big Ben went down and he had some crappy backup under center. If AB can go from superstar to horrible in one week..... yea, learn fromt hat scenario before judging any WR.
 
Reid1boys said:
Wait, you are comparing a guy traded to a team to be their number 1 WR to a guy that was basically a nobody? Cooper came to Dallas, was immediately inserted in as a starter and given targets right away. Opportunity leads to production. Mingo was given no such thing. Mingo also came to Cooper Rush..... cmon. At least compare similar situations.

IN Carolin, once again look at the opportunity. You think Thielen was running the same kind of routes? I have no idea what Mingo can or cant do. But until the man gets an actual chance, nobody knows.All I know is I will NEVER forget Antonio Brown immediately going from the best WR in the NFL to not even being able to play himon my fantasy team when Big Ben went down and he had some crappy backup under center. If AB can go from superstar to horrible in one week..... yea, learn fromt hat scenario before judging any WR.
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I agree...Amari Cooper had a significantly more difficult situation coming the Cowboys. He was immediately thrown into the #1 WR role, commanded double teams, and was looked at to be a savior for the 2018 season. Mingo just needed to beat out guys like Tolbert, Flournoy, Brooks, etc to get snaps and struggled to do that.

The QBs matter, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but it doesnt explain how every single receiver on both Dallas and Carolina ran laps around this guy. They were all on the same teams, catching passes from the same QBs and ended up passing Mingo on the depth chart in Carolina, and the Cowboys WRs kept him from seeing the field much despite their top 2 guys missing multiple games each in Cooks/Lamb.

Maybe the light comes on in year 3 for Mingo, but I don't see any reasons to make excuses for horrible tape he had in 2024.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
I agree...Amari Cooper had a significantly more difficult situation coming the Cowboys. He was immediately thrown into the #1 WR role, commanded double teams, and was looked at to be a savior for the 2018 season. Mingo just needed to beat out guys like Tolbert, Flournoy, Brooks, etc to get snaps and struggled to do that.

The QBs matter, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but it doesnt explain how every single receiver on both Dallas and Carolina ran laps around this guy. They were all on the same teams, catching passes from the same QBs and ended up passing Mingo on the depth chart in Carolina, and the Cowboys WRs kept him from seeing the field much despite their top 2 guys missing multiple games each in Cooks/Lamb.

Maybe the light comes on in year 3 for Mingo, but I don't see any reasons to make excuses for horrible tape he had in 2024.
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Bryce Young, Cooper Rush... facts, not excuses.
 
Reid1boys said:
Bryce Young, Cooper Rush... facts, not excuses.
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But that doesn't explain why every other WR on both rosters significantly outproduced him with the same QBs
throwing the football. Regardless of who the QB was Mingo did not live up to his year 2 expectations. Even if you give him a 20% numbers boost to account for bad QB play the results are not good.
 
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