WR's... by the numbers

[McCordsville Cowboy]

Pick Ginn.

He's a Great player.

WR...KR...PR.

What did Ross run at the combine?

On that play he got smoked on a fly... I think ross ran a 4.3 at his pro day.

75% Ginn runs a high 4.3 , watch when a healthy Ginn and a healthy 4.3 Ross meet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21yoBtw2mxM

 

[Concord]

What did Ross run at the combine?

On that play he got smoked on a fly... I think ross ran a 4.3 at his pro day.

75% Ginn runs a high 4.3 , watch when a healthy Ginn and a healthy 4.3 Ross meet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21yoBtw2mxM

You see it in the pic and video.

 

[Jake0]

Ross is definitely not a 4.3 guy, he's inbetween 4.4-4.5 and if I remember right he's closer to 4.5, which is why it boggles me how people are high on him when he's not blazing fast and is already 25 years old. I watched some highlights of him though and he does have good moves and is really good at breaking up passes. Ross is like Henry sort of.

 

[dboyz]

Ross is definitely not a 4.3 guy, he's inbetween 4.4-4.5 and if I remember right he's closer to 4.5, which is why it boggles me how people are high on him when he's not blazing fast and is already 25 years old. I watched some highlights of him though and he does have good moves and is really good at breaking up passes. Ross is like Henry sort of.

Interesting, that was my thought on him too. Reminds me of Henry. A ballhawk with less than elite speed. A good player, but I wouldn't take him in the first.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

I wouldn't be mad at all if Dallas selected a guy like Sidney Rice in the 2nd round if available, the kid repeated got open in college, Spurrier's offense had something to do with it but you can see he's got major talent despite the 4.5/4.6 40 times. I can't believe how so many people are caught up on 40 times.. I like to see game speed on film myself.

 

[Chuck 54]

Ross is definitely not a 4.3 guy, he's inbetween 4.4-4.5 and if I remember right he's closer to 4.5, which is why it boggles me how people are high on him when he's not blazing fast and is already 25 years old. I watched some highlights of him though and he does have good moves and is really good at breaking up passes. Ross is like Henry sort of.

Yikes....we drafted an older Newman too. Newman is great, but he started as one of the oldest rookies that year...I like the younger guys unless the older guy is clearly superior.

 

[hendog]

I agree with you Wayne. I have been back and forth on the WR debate but after watching several highlite clips of these guys I really like Meacham. He seeems like the total package and seems to play as fast as he timed.. Jarrett's college production and his age (20) are also impressive.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I wouldn't be mad at all if Dallas selected a guy like Sidney Rice in the 2nd round if available, the kid repeated got open in college, Spurrier's offense had something to do with it but you can see he's got major talent despite the 4.5/4.6 40 times. I can't believe how so many people are caught up on 40 times.. I like to see game speed on film myself.

If you really watched SC this year, it's easy to see that Spurrier's offense, the one he used back at Florida, is not the one he is running now but more to the point, I think he might have learned something in the NFL. I could be wrong but it's not the same offense.

At Florida, he used multiple receivers to flood zones and basically designed the offense so that the QB could get the ball out quickly to an open guy. He bet that he could get the ball to an open receiver before the defense could get to the QB. Hard on QBs but it worked at the college level. This is why you would see multiple receivers with huge numbers. Also, big QB numbers. That's not what's going on at South Carolina. Carolina actually rushed the ball a lot, I thought, this last season. Between Cory Boyd and Mike Davis, they had 264 rushing attempts for 1297 yards and about a 4.9 YPC average. That's not to bad considering this is a Spurrier team. South Carolina is actually a running team, based off last year. They threw the ball 243 times and ran it 414. Between Mitchell and Newton, they were not very good QBs IMO. Just OK, nothing special. When you break down that offense, Rice lead the way with a 1000+ yards, McKinley was second with 880 and then it was pretty much all backs. No other receiver had even 150 yards. I think it's a mistake to look at Rice and say that he is a product of the old Spurrior offense. The offense South Carolina has been running is not the old Florida offense IMO.

 

[Vinnie2u]

I'll throw my 2 cents into this Thread. I'd Pick Ginn if the coaching staff feels we have a #1 receiver in Hurd or Austin. Some say Ginn is just a kick returner.
But giving what we know now. How many teams would of spent a lower first round draft pick on Devin Hester? I see Ginn being used a a Reggie Bush type of player. One thing this team needs is a playmaker. Ginns the best one on Offense this year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'll throw my 2 cents into this Thread. I'd Pick Ginn if the coaching staff feels we have a #1 receiver in Hurd or Austin. Some say Ginn is just a kick returner.
But giving what we know now. How many teams would of spent a lower first round draft pick on Devin Hester? I see Ginn being used a a Reggie Bush type of player. One thing this team needs is a playmaker. Ginns the best one on Offense this year.

I agree. The real issue, for me, is can he stay healthy? The offense has excellent red zone talent IMO. We have guys who can move the chains. What we don't have is an electric player that can keep defenses honest. People try to make TO into this kind of player but he is not. You need a guy who can make a DB fear speed from his first step. Nobody on our offense has that ability. Glenn used to be that kind of player but he has slowed with age. Still very effective but people are not affraid to man up on him grill to grill. People are asking why Ginn Jr. has such low YPC average. It's easy. Nobody plays him two yards off the ball. They play him 10 off with over the top help. As a result, he catches everything short because it's there for the taking. That's why his average is so low. If you add this kind of player to our roster, other teams can't do that. They must play him honest because if they don't, TO, Glenn and Witten will eat them up. A guy like Ginn, has the quickness and speed to make DBs fear him from his first step. The only way to stop him is to get a good chuck on him and knock him off his route. If you don't do that, your in it for six. He could be a real catalytic player for us because he has the ability to leave guys from step one. He could be huge for us but he has to stay healthy and he has to learn to avoid the chuck on the line.

 

[Chuck 54]

I agree. The real issue, for me, is can he stay healthy? The offense has excellent red zone talent IMO. We have guys who can move the chains. What we don't have is an electric player that can keep defenses honest. People try to make TO into this kind of player but he is not. You need a guy who can make a DB fear speed from his first step. Nobody on our offense has that ability. Glenn used to be that kind of player but he has slowed with age. Still very effective but people are not affraid to man up on him grill to grill. People are asking why Ginn Jr. has such low YPC average. It's easy. Nobody plays him two yards off the ball. They play him 10 off with over the top help. As a result, he catches everything short because it's there for the taking. That's why his average is so low. If you add this kind of player to our roster, other teams can't do that. They must play him honest because if they don't, TO, Glenn and Witten will eat them up. A guy like Ginn, has the quickness and speed to make DBs fear him from his first step. The only way to stop him is to get a good chuck on him and knock him off his route. If you don't do that, your in it for six. He could be a real catalytic player for us because he has the ability to leave guys from step one. He could be huge for us but he has to stay healthy and he has to learn to avoid the chuck on the line.

Excellent analysis....the real questions are "will he look that fast in the NFL" (most sites call him a 4.34 guy before the injury...fast, but not superstar fast) and "will he hold up in the NFL".

I trust the coaches...the USC fan in me wants Jarrett...my common sense says Meacham, but I'll be happy with any WR we draft this year in rounds 1 or 2 because I'll assume the scouts and coaches have selected the player they think best fits what we want to do on offense.

It won't shock me if we use one of our young receivers, even Crayton, to move up in round 1 if we are really hot for a certain WR. It would make sense when you consider that Crayton was only signed to a 1 year contract and that if you use a mid-first round pick on a WR, you are going to at least use him as your #3 guy.....I could be totally wrong, but it wouldn't shock me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Excellent analysis....the real questions are "will he look that fast in the NFL" (most sites call him a 4.34 guy before the injury...fast, but not superstar fast) and "will he hold up in the NFL".

I trust the coaches...the USC fan in me wants Jarrett...my common sense says Meacham, but I'll be happy with any WR we draft this year in rounds 1 or 2 because I'll assume the scouts and coaches have selected the player they think best fits what we want to do on offense.

It won't shock me if we use one of our young receivers, even Crayton, to move up in round 1 if we are really hot for a certain WR. It would make sense when you consider that Crayton was only signed to a 1 year contract and that if you use a mid-first round pick on a WR, you are going to at least use him as your #3 guy.....I could be totally wrong, but it wouldn't shock me.

I do believe that Ginn is that fast. Now, as a whole, I believe that the Big10 is not as fast as the SEC or maybe some of the other big time conferences but Ginn to me has shown the ability to just leave too many guys. There is risk betting that he is as fast as advertised but I don't think it's a huge amount of risk. To me, I think you can easily see on film that he's going to be a guy that is that fast. I'm really more worried about him being able to stay on the field to be honest.

 

[dogberry]

From Great Blue North Draft Report:

11 Jason Hill 4.35
14 David Clowney 4.35
21 Laurent Robinson 4.38
36 Yamon Figurs 4.30

Why are these players not more valuable?

Would drafting 2 of the above be better value and more likely to hit?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

From Great Blue North Draft Report:

11 Jason Hill 4.35
14 David Clowney 4.35
21 Laurent Robinson 4.38
36 Yamon Figurs 4.30

Why are these players not more valuable?

Would drafting 2 of the above be better value and more likely to hit?

Well, I am a huge fan of Jason Hill and would actually be in favor of us drafting either Hill or Rice in the 2nd round area.

Clowney is a guy that we are rumored to be looking at by some. I don't love him. He's a bit small. He's 6' and 188 lbs. He times fast but is not really the deep threat you would think he is. I don't watch enough VTech football to really understand why he was not as productive as you would think he should be. He only caught 34 balls last year for 424 yards. YPC was not spectacular at 12.5. No TDs for the year. I don't know why he was not as effective but he clearly didn't produce IMO.

Robinson is an interesting guy to me. Very nice size at 6-2, 200 Lbs. Not as productive last year with 700 yds and 40 catches but he was hurt for 3 or 4 games last year. The year before, he caught 86 balls for 1465 yards and 12 TDs. Compatition is the question with him. Ill. St. is not D1 so the compatition played against is a question. Not really strong. Not physical and according to at least one report, his toughness to play the position is in question. I think this is why he's not ranked as high.

Figures, to me is a poor mans Ginn. Really quick, really fast, excellent STs guy but not a great WR. Very raw as a WR. If I were drafting this kid, it would be for ST only with some potential to be a 3rd WR at some point. Day one or even year one, I doubt he will be ready to play WR in the NFL. He's probably two or three years away from being a #3 WR IMO. But, he is a heck of a ST guy. Not big at 5-11, 175 lbs. Really pretty small. He did beat Devon Hester in a foot race in HS as an FYI. Don't know what that means.

 

[Tristan]

"Ginn is super fast and quick but is small and banged up. Some teams may completely scratch him off the board due to size. A few others may label him a 3rd down returner type who isn't worth a 1st rounder. "


This remark seems kind off closed minded, Wasn't it just a year ago that Steve Smith and Santana Moss pretty much tore up the league. Many personell experts stated that the new trend would be towards these smaller, explosive playmaker type WR's. I doubt most GM's have forgotten the impact these guys have demonstrated. To say a WR has to be big to be All Pro is kinda old fashioned.

 

[dogberry]

ABQ thank you.

I'm cheap just looking for bargains. But sometimes you get what you pay for. Can't keep my cliches from disagreeing.

As a Texas fan, Figurs sure liked too good last year.

Kent

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

"Ginn is super fast and quick but is small and banged up. Some teams may completely scratch him off the board due to size. A few others may label him a 3rd down returner type who isn't worth a 1st rounder. "


This remark seems kind off closed minded, Wasn't it just a year ago that Steve Smith and Santana Moss pretty much tore up the league. Many personell experts stated that the new trend would be towards these smaller, explosive playmaker type WR's. I doubt most GM's have forgotten the impact these guys have demonstrated. To say a WR has to be big to be All Pro is kinda old fashioned.

I don't really think Size is as great an issue as is durability. If a guy is not on the field, he's not worth the pick. I think that's what it comes down to for many. I mean, Steve Smith is 5'8/5'9 185 lbs. Santana Moss is 5'10 190. Ginn is almost 6' and 178 lbs. That's a bit of a difference there.

 

[Doomsday101]

"Ginn is super fast and quick but is small and banged up. Some teams may completely scratch him off the board due to size. A few others may label him a 3rd down returner type who isn't worth a 1st rounder. "


This remark seems kind off closed minded, Wasn't it just a year ago that Steve Smith and Santana Moss pretty much tore up the league. Many personell experts stated that the new trend would be towards these smaller, explosive playmaker type WR's. I doubt most GM's have forgotten the impact these guys have demonstrated. To say a WR has to be big to be All Pro is kinda old fashioned.

I agree Ginn is not too small nor has he been banged up that much, it is football and all players run into injuries and Ginn has not shown himself as a player who constantly is getting injured

 

[Concord]

I agree Ginn is not too small nor has he been banged up that much, it is football and all players run into injuries and Ginn has not shown himself as a player who constantly is getting injured

No he hasn't

And Ginn didn't even get hurt PLAYING.

His dumb as a box of rocks teammate hurt him after his Kickoff TD return.

 

[Tristan]

I agree durability is a legitimate concern. I think it has to be in context though, Reggie Bush had legit durability questions, but when factoring in his rare gamebreaking ability most still felt he was more than worthy of a top five pick.

I think it is a similar situation with Ginn, sure there are durability concerns, which could cause a team to prefer a guy like Jarrett or Meachem, but in the end you don't take him off your board or drop him three rounds IMO.

How many teams dropped Bush from their board? How many teams are dropping Peterson to the third round?

Ginn didn't have durability issues during his college career other than the recent bonehead actions by his teamates, Ginn has been there on game day.

It is only conjecture to suggest that Ginn will be injury prone in the NFL IMO. Sure the tacklers are bigger and stronger in the NFL, Given Ginns' height/Frame and huge hands, I would speculate that Ginn will also become bigger and stronger when given the oportunity to mature, and the opportunity to participate in an NFL strength and conditioning program instead of going to class.

I would think a guy like Jurisak could get 10/15 lbs. of muscle on him. I don't know his familys' financial situation but alot of these college guys can't afford the food and supplements to maximize their physiques. You ever seen how much a box of EAS Myoplex or Met-rex cost?.

Remember Leon Lett?, he is a classic example. Once in the NFL these guys can afford a personal chef/nutritionist as well as supliments like Muscle Milk, Creatine, Gakic etc. While in college the 99cent double cheese burger is their best option unfortunately.