Yahoo: Jerry talking to players about T.O. - 2/6/09

[tyke1doe]

Still, there is a reason Jones had almost no competition when he signed Owens. And Owens, at that point, was a younger player. You guys suggesting the league almost universally passed on the opportunity to sign Owens because they thought he lacked talent?

A great point.

I wonder if people who hold this opinion of Owens not being disruptive are actual managers, coaches or leaders of organizations.

 

[tyke1doe]

Very true words.

Bottom line, you win with talent. Maybe in the magical land where Rudys reign supreme you can win with good feelings but that crap doesn't fly in the NFL.

You probably need to be careful with that bottom line statement because the Cowboys were by far the most talented team last year (and some say this year) but we didn't win.

So what's the excuse?

1. Either we aren't as talented as we think we are.
2. We don't have good coaching.
3. We don't have good chemistry.

It can be all, one or a combination of any two.

Furthermore, even though you don't think chemistry matters, players like Shannon Sharpe, Troy Aikman and many others who've won a Super Bowl do.

Chemistry is important. But it's just part of the equation like anything else. Sometimes, teams are able to rise above chemistry. Sometimes, they're not.

It's not an either or situation.

I don't think the Cowboys are a team that (right now) can overcome chemistry. The 90s Cowboys could, but not this team. That's why people make a big deal about it, especially when we had ... 13 Pro Bowlers last year, homefield advantage throughout the playoffs and STILL couldn't make it to the Super Bowl.

But the chemistry equation is Jerry Jones' fault. He signed T.O., despite what Bill Parcells was trying to do. He hired Jason Garrett as coach-in-the-wings, paid him more money than Wade Phillips then forced him on Phillips. And somehow he thinks this relationship is going to work, when most observers said otherwise. He publicly backs T.O.'s declaration that he needs to get the ball more, undermining his coaches who may or may not have wanted to feature the running game.

T.O. is T.O. - for good or bad in terms of his impact on the club and the lockerroom.

But Jerry Jones is the one who created this climate, or at least perpetuates it.

 

[Bleu Star]

A great point.

I wonder if people who hold this opinion of Owens not being disruptive are actual managers, coaches or leaders of organizations.

:raises hand:

(works in management)

 

[tyke1doe]

:raises hand:

(works in management)

So, if an employee went on television or to the newspapers and criticized you, prompting other employees to do the same, you wouldn't reprimand or fire that employee?

 

[Bleu Star]

So, if an employee went on television or to the papers and criticizing you, prompting other employees to do the same, you wouldn't reprimand or fire that employee?

Our employees wouldn't do that because we provide the structure that fosters a self disciplined environment and we're all held accountable for our actions from management on down.

Now.. I will entertain your question. That employee would be reprimanded and the occasion would be documented. If enough of those documents begin to add up that employee will eventually disappear.

That said, prove to me that TO prompted others to criticize anyone. His Deion interview was a very bad idea but we don't normally fire an employee due to one not so harmful offense. Some here have made much more out of it than it really was. I'm not surprised.

 

[tyke1doe]

Our employees wouldn't do that because we provide the structure that fosters a self disciplined environment and we're all held accountable for our actions from management on down.

Now.. I will entertain your question. That employee would be reprimanded and the occasion would be documented. If enough of those documents begin to add up that employee will eventually disappear.

Exactly. Thank you for your honesty.

That said, prove to me that TO prompted others to criticize anyone. His Deion interview was a very bad idea but we don't normally fire an employee due to one not so harmful offense. Some here have made much more out of it than it really was. I'm not surprised.

I can't prove that any more than one can prove racism doesn't exist if one doesn't make a racist statement. (I only use this as an example, but some feel that racism in the workplace doesn't exist unless a supervisor makes a racist statement.) But you have another criteria you use to establish behavior that isn't obvious and one way is by examining patterns. If you're consistently hiring and prompting white male managers even though you have black employees, one considers patterns and draws conclusions from them - certainly the EEOC does.

So as it relates to T.O., you look at the pattern. He starts talking about the offensive coordinator and quarterback by giving interviews. Then you have Roy Williams coming out with criticisms. Then you have Romo coming out with criticisms. Then you have Patrick Crayton coming out with criticisms. Then you look at T.O.'s past and how this has occurred on other clubs, and you go from there.

Look, neither one of us knows what's going on in the locker room. We all go by reporters. You may consider what Witten says on the record and another may consider what is said by anonymous sources. Be that as it may, there's a great deal of smoke here.

Now, I will agree that there's a lot of T.O. overkill. The season is over and yet we're still talking about T.O. T.O. really hasn't done anything off season, but folks in the media love to predict - that's part of the job.

But during the season, T.O. (based on his past, and you can't separate that from the discussion) has given enough ammunition for the media.

Again, if T.O. had just come in here and done his thing and remained quiet, giving no interviews and keeping his criticism inhouse, there would be little to no news about him. But he has given the media ammunition, and they're firing it even if they're using in-season ammunition and nothing that T.O. has done currently.

 

[khiladi]

"Still, there is a reason Jones had almost no competition when he signed Owens. And Owens, at that point, was a younger player. You guys suggesting the league almost universally passed on the opportunity to sign Owens because they thought he lacked talent?"I have no idea where this idea came from. It is already well-established that Shanahan wanted TO as well. Per Rosenhaus, when TO originally signed his contract with the Cowboys, SIX teams were aggressively pursuing him. That is not to account for teams that toyed with the idea. Unless of course, people want to assume Drew lied.

 

[tyke1doe]

"Still, there is a reason Jones had almost no competition when he signed Owens. And Owens, at that point, was a younger player. You guys suggesting the league almost universally passed on the opportunity to sign Owens because they thought he lacked talent?"I have no idea where this idea came from. It is already well-established that Shanahan wanted TO as well. Per Rosenhaus, when TO originally signed his contract with the Cowboys, SIX teams were aggressively pursuing him. That is not to account for teams that toyed with the idea. Unless of course, people want to assume Drew lied.

Wasn't Rosenhaus the agent who had Willis McGahee act like he was talking on the phone to give the impression that teams were actually taking him in the first round?

Then the Bills bit and took him.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

"Still, there is a reason Jones had almost no competition when he signed Owens. And Owens, at that point, was a younger player. You guys suggesting the league almost universally passed on the opportunity to sign Owens because they thought he lacked talent?"I have no idea where this idea came from. It is already well-established that Shanahan wanted TO as well. Per Rosenhaus, when TO originally signed his contract with the Cowboys, SIX teams were aggressively pursuing him. That is not to account for teams that toyed with the idea. Unless of course, people want to assume Drew lied.

I wouldn't take Rosenhaus at face value if he said the sun will rise tomorrow. But having said that, let's say he was being honest: The fact remains, the Cowboys signed Owens for a contract substantially below market value. And most NFL teams, even under your scenario, had no interest in signing the player. Are you saying most NFL teams did not need a player of his talent level? Even if the number six were accurate, the point would hold.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wasn't Rosenhaus the agent who had Willis McGahee act like he was talking on the phone to give the impression that teams were actually taking him in the first round?

Then the Bills bit and took him.

Who cares? The bottomline is that the no competition bullcrap is just that, bullcrap.

We know of at least one other team that was aggressively pursuing him and just because no one else broadcast their interest that does not mean that no one else was not interested either.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I wouldn't take Rosenhaus at face value if he said the sun will rise tomorrow. But having said that, let's say he was being honest: The fact remains, the Cowboys signed Owens for a contract substantially below market value. And most NFL teams, even under your scenario, had no interest in signing the player. Are you saying most NFL teams did not need a player of his talent level? Even if the number six were accurate, the point would hold.

I am sorry but typically speaking only a few teams are ever interested in a FA. If LT became available he would garner interest in several teams but the fact that teams like us or Minny whose RB situation is handled would take a pass.

If you have cap issues or a number 1 receiver already that shows nothing. If 6 teams are making waves towards a player that is significant.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I am sorry but typically speaking only a few teams are ever interested in a FA. If LT became available he would garner interest in several teams but the fact that teams like us or Minny whose RB situation is handled would take a pass.

If you have cap issues or a number 1 receiver already that shows nothing. If 6 teams are making waves towards a player that is significant.

True, Fuzzy. But free agents typically are not being offered substantially below market value. If Larry Fitzgerald were to suddenly come free tomorrow -- someone found out that his contract was accidentally signed in invisible ink -- and it were announced that he would be signing a contract with some team far below market value, I expect that more than six teams would show an interest. Agree?

 

[5Countem5]

So, if an employee went on television or to the newspapers and criticized you, prompting other employees to do the same, you wouldn't reprimand or fire that employee?

So let me get this straight-

You are saying Romo only criticized the coaching because TO criticized the coaching and that prompted him to do so?

It had nothing to do with Romo's true feelings on the matter?

 

[Ren]

So let me get this straight-

You are saying Romo only criticized the coaching because TO criticized the coaching and that prompted him to do so?

It had nothing to do with Romo's true feelings on the matter?

Lets not forget Roy11's little tour of the media with his Garrett sucks routine, funny how no one is calling for his head

 

[5Countem5]

Lets not forget Roy11's little tour of the media with his Garrett sucks routine, funny how no one is calling for his head

Exactly, next we will hear that Roy never opened his mouth until he got around TO...

 

[sonnyboy]

You probably need to be careful with that bottom line statement because the Cowboys were by far the most talented team last year (and some say this year) but we didn't win.

So what's the excuse?

1. Either we aren't as talented as we think we are.
2. We don't have good coaching.
3. We don't have good chemistry.

It can be all, one or a combination of any two.

Furthermore, even though you don't think chemistry matters, players like Shannon Sharpe, Troy Aikman and many others who've won a Super Bowl do.

Chemistry is important. But it's just part of the equation like anything else. Sometimes, teams are able to rise above chemistry. Sometimes, they're not.

It's not an either or situation.

I don't think the Cowboys are a team that (right now) can overcome chemistry. The 90s Cowboys could, but not this team. That's why people make a big deal about it, especially when we had ... 13 Pro Bowlers last year, homefield advantage throughout the playoffs and STILL couldn't make it to the Super Bowl.

But the chemistry equation is Jerry Jones' fault. He signed T.O., despite what Bill Parcells was trying to do. He hired Jason Garrett as coach-in-the-wings, paid him more money than Wade Phillips then forced him on Phillips. And somehow he thinks this relationship is going to work, when most observers said otherwise. He publicly backs T.O.'s declaration that he needs to get the ball more, undermining his coaches who may or may not have wanted to feature the running game.

T.O. is T.O. - for good or bad in terms of his impact on the club and the lockerroom.

But Jerry Jones is the one who created this climate, or at least perpetuates it.

4. You forgot injuries

Even Reeves said as much when asked about what he would have been doing for the Cowboys and if he thought our "locker issues" lead to our 9-7 finish.

The 90's teams had great chemistry. They also had off the field distractions, that was their problem they ultimately overcame.

This team has chemistry and discipline "issues".
These issues are not the result of Owens and will not be solved with his depature.

Owens is not the disease, he's the symptom. Treat the disease not the symptom.

 

[khiladi]

Wasn't Rosenhaus the agent who had Willis McGahee act like he was talking on the phone to give the impression that teams were actually taking him in the first round?


Then the Bills bit and took him.

So your accusing him of lying.. BTW, Rosenhaus said that after TO was signed.... In the case of McGahee, it was to drive the value up...

 

[khiladi]

Uh, he didn't get substantially below market value. Further, his contract was SUBSTANTIALLY more than what he was going to receive with the Eagles. "After his windfall this season, Owens will get salaries of $8 million in 2007 and $7 million in 2008. All told, it's a lot more than he would've made under the contract with Philadelphia that began his bad blood with the organization." That is a LOT of money up-front... Brady had a 6 million dollar base salary in 2007, with 5.28 million of it paid in the form of a signing bonus. A similar scenario happend with TO, witht he majorty of his salarybeing paid out in a signing bonus.

 

[Alexander]

If this is true, then Jerry Jones is really grasping at straws and really isn't even looking in the right places to fix what is wrong. That starts in the mirror, but after that there are still a few other places he can look than right at Terrell Owens.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Uh, he didn't get substantially below market value. Further, his contract was SUBSTANTIALLY more than what he was going to receive with the Eagles. "After his windfall this season, Owens will get salaries of $8 million in 2007 and $7 million in 2008. All told, it's a lot more than he would've made under the contract with Philadelphia that began his bad blood with the organization."

This has finally gotten utterly ridiculous. Look, there are perfectly logical reasons to suggest the Cowboys ought to keep Owens. I understand that. But the "keep Owens" crowd has gotten completely ludicrous. Of course, Owens signed an original contract with the Cowboys structured in a way that favored the team. You are the first person I have ever, ever seen suggest otherwise. And there was limited interest. Until the past day or two, I'm not sure anyone made a serious argument to the contrary.