Yankees preparing ma$$ive offer for Cliff Lee

[ABQCOWBOY]

On the surface this is true, however each season is different, and a championship team isn't necessarily going to win again even with the same players, and a team that comes up short isn't necessarily going to come up short again if it has the same players.

It could be argued that keeping Lee alone might be enough for the Rangers to get over the hump because they will be a more seasoned/playoff experienced team this year, and some of the young guys like Holland, Hunter, Moreland, Borbon, Kirkland, Feliz etc... will have had a chance to mature some. The Rangers minor league system is supposed to be among the strongest in MLB, so it could be that others in the minor leagues that are close to stepping up and helping as well.

I think a top of the line catcher would be a big boost. Bengie was a nice, veteran presence, but his physical ability is limited. Other than that I don't see an real holes. We could always use upgrades like any other team, but there is no place that seams to be a weak area.

Perhaps Ernie but you can bet that the Yankees are not going to stand pat. The Yankees are going to go out and get another top of the line Starter and maybe two more. The Yankees are going to get better on paper. Now, does that work out during the season? I don't know but you can bet they will bring pitching in and probably another bat. If your Lee and the money is the same, where would you go?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain would match up fine with CC and Lee. Hell, Lee lost twice when facing Lincecum and Cain was pitching far better than Big Time Timmy Jim.

The Yankees only faced Lee once and even without that the Yankees hitting was stifled for the most part by Rangers pitching. The Giants were pitching better than the Rangers. You can wear all the rose colored glasses of what could have or should have happen. Find a team in the last 50 years that pitched better than the Giants from September until the end of the WS.

The Yankees + Lee = WS loss. The Giants were pitching that good.

That's your opinion. Are you willing to bet on that where Lee is concerned?

 

[Temo]

They may have at the beginning of 2010. He won't be anywhere near the Top 100 in 2011. His bat has gone nowhere in the minors.

He's a legit prospect and could be a major league regular. He'll never replace Jeter, even Jeter '10 (who was better than people give him credit for), but then again who ever will?

 

[tko112204]

He's a legit prospect and could be a major league regular. He'll never replace Jeter, even Jeter '10 (who was better than people give him credit for), but then again who ever will?

Exactly. In '09 Jeter was a 7 win player. Eduardo Nunez will never be a 7 win player. And his defense has been seriously questioned by scouts and his organization. He COULD be a solid regular. Or he could be a utility IF used in defensive and running situations. Bottom line is, no one should hope that Eduardo Nunez is taking ABs away from Derek Jeter in 2011 if they are a Yankee fan.

 

[tico]

What an angry person you are. Face it, the Yankees ARE nothing unless they over pay to be.

The Yankees have basically one core player that they raised from the minors leagues on their team. The rest are over the hill has-beens or are not core players.

All their core players with the exception of Cano are bought and paid for.

Jeter, Jorge, Pettitte, and Rivera are the closest thing that could be considered core that were raised by the Yankees, but all of them are over-the-hill making them no longer core players. (ie, can't build your team around them)

A-Roid, Teixeira, CC, Granderson, Swisher, Wood, and Burnett were all bought and paid for.

I will say Phil Hughes is making a push to be a core player, but he hasn't yet proved that is he worthy to build a team around.

Now the buyers want to buy another pitcher because they can't raise any good ones anymore.

The Yankees are NOTHING without OPP. (Other Peoples Players)

***! Rivera is the best closer in baseball period & still keeps ballin...hater!

 

[YosemiteSam]

That's your opinion. Are you willing to bet on that where Lee is concerned?

Lee faced Timmy twice in the WS. What was his record? 0-2

As for betting, I'm not a gambler.

 

[The Horned Frog]

If I'm a betting man (I'm not but on the hypothetical)....

Lee stays in Texas, New York acquires Grienke from Kansas City.

 

[WDN]

If I'm a betting man (I'm not but on the hypothetical)....

Lee stays in Texas, New York acquires Grienke from Kansas City.

You will be right on half of that prediction. No way Grienke okays a trade to New York with his social anxiety issue.

 

[YosemiteSam]

If I'm a betting man (I'm not but on the hypothetical)....

Lee stays in Texas, New York acquires Grienke from Kansas City.

Grienke pretty much made it clear he wants no part of NY and he can reject any trade to NY.

 

[Stautner]

Perhaps Ernie but you can bet that the Yankees are not going to stand pat. The Yankees are going to go out and get another top of the line Starter and maybe two more. The Yankees are going to get better on paper. Now, does that work out during the season? I don't know but you can bet they will bring pitching in and probably another bat. If your Lee and the money is the same, where would you go?

My discussion wasn't about whether the Rangers could compete with the Yankees, it was about whether the Rangers needed even more than Lee since they came up short even with Lee.

I certainly can't argue, and haven't been arguing, that it wont be tough for the Rangers to keep Lee. I would say the odds are against it, although I don't think it's impossible.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Lee faced Timmy twice in the WS. What was his record? 0-2

As for betting, I'm not a gambler.

So your willing to risk that you can keep Lee if the Yankees offer more money by just standing pat? That doesn't sound like a good bet or strategy to me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

My discussion wasn't about whether the Rangers could compete with the Yankees, it was about whether the Rangers needed even more than Lee since they came up short even with Lee.

I certainly can't argue, and haven't been arguing, that it wont be tough for the Rangers to keep Lee. I would say the odds are against it, although I don't think it's impossible.

I don't think it's impossible either Ernie. However, I do believe that if I were Lee, I'd be seriously thinking about what else the Rangers were going to do to improve their chances of winning it all. If all things are equal or the Yankees are paying more, Lee has to be thinking about which situations increases his chances of winning. That's a tough sell if your Texas and you are not planning on getting more then just Lee. I think the Rangers have to try and improve in other areas as well.

No argument on your initial point. It is possible for Texas to stand pat and win but, I don't think that approach plays into Lee resigning. JMO

 

[YosemiteSam]

So your willing to risk that you can keep Lee if the Yankees offer more money by just standing pat? That doesn't sound like a good bet or strategy to me.

Me risk what? I don't know what is to happen, but I will say this. I would let Lee walk before I mortgaged the future of the Texas Rangers on Lee just because I didn't want the Yankees to out bid me.

Lee has A LOT of value, but he isn't worth the money some people talk talking about. ($25M a year for 5+ years)

 

[YosemiteSam]

I don't think it's impossible either Ernie. However, I do believe that if I were Lee, I'd be seriously thinking about what else the Rangers were going to do to improve their chances of winning it all. If all things are equal or the Yankees are paying more, Lee has to be thinking about which situations increases his chances of winning. That's a tough sell if your Texas and you are not planning on getting more then just Lee. I think the Rangers have to try and improve in other areas as well.

No argument on your initial point. It is possible for Texas to stand pat and win but, I don't think that approach plays into Lee resigning. JMO

The Rangers have a pretty good squad and will have one for the next several years. At a minimum the majority of any contract time Lee signs for the Rangers will still be a quality team. The Rangers have many young core players. (Feliz, Andrus, Kinsler, Nelly, Hamilton, Lewis, Wilson, Moreland, Murphy, Borbon, Holland, and Ogando) All of those guys are either in their prime or are very talented budding players with long term ties to the Rangers.

Lee knows Texas will be good for some time. The question is, does he want to play here near his home for less, or for more in NY.

I'm not going to stress this. It's just not that important. If the Yankees hamstring themselves with a gargantuan contract that the Rangers can't compete with, then so bet it. If they do that and Lee turns out like AJ Burnett, it will be one contract that will be extremely hard for Hal and Hank (and Cashman) to swallow. I will happily drive the 10 minutes to get to Cashman's house to sit in front of his house laugh on a daily basis if that is what happens

 

[Stautner]

I don't think it's impossible either Ernie. However, I do believe that if I were Lee, I'd be seriously thinking about what else the Rangers were going to do to improve their chances of winning it all. If all things are equal or the Yankees are paying more, Lee has to be thinking about which situations increases his chances of winning. That's a tough sell if your Texas and you are not planning on getting more then just Lee. I think the Rangers have to try and improve in other areas as well.

No argument on your initial point. It is possible for Texas to stand pat and win but, I don't think that approach plays into Lee resigning. JMO

I'm sure you are right that part of Lee's decision will be based on where he has a better chance to win - or I assume that's going to be important to him. And I agree, improvements are likely to be part of the evaluation. I just don't think that "improvements" are restricted to new acquisitions. I would assume he will also consider that some of the key Yankees are aging and their performances declining or likely to decline (A-Rod, Posada, Rivera, Jeter) and that most of the Rangers are younger and "should" continue to improve with age and experience. That's another area where improvement has to be factored in. If he does look at that then maybe the Rangers wont have to match the Yankee acquisition efforts for Lee to consider the Rangers.

The thing that worries me most is that the Yankees will offer him a long term deal. I think the Rangers will be competative on a 3 year deal, maybe even a 5 year deal (maybe), but anything beyond that I don't think the Rangers will compete with. I really don't think they should either. I don't want them to run the risk of having too much salary tied up in a pitcher in his upper 30's 6 years from now.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm sure you are right that part of Lee's decision will be based on where he has a better chance to win - or I assume that's going to be important to him. And I agree, improvements are likely to be part of the evaluation. I just don't think that "improvements" are restricted to new acquisitions. I would assume he will also consider that some of the key Yankees are aging and their performances declining or likely to decline (A-Rod, Posada, Rivera, Jeter) and that most of the Rangers are younger and "should" continue to improve with age and experience. That's another area where improvement has to be factored in. If he does look at that then maybe the Rangers wont have to match the Yankee acquisition efforts for Lee to consider the Rangers.

The thing that worries me most is that the Yankees will offer him a long term deal. I think the Rangers will be competative on a 3 year deal, maybe even a 5 year deal (maybe), but anything beyond that I don't think the Rangers will compete with. I really don't think they should either. I don't want them to run the risk of having too much salary tied up in a pitcher in his upper 30's 6 years from now.

I think the Yankees probably will offer him a 5 year deal. I think you have a point about age but I think A-Rod has good years left. He was injured early and never really got right. An off season for him will do wonders. Rivera is still among the very best closers in the league. Posada may not see another season as the starting catcher. The Yankees do have several very good catching prospects in the minors. Montero, Romine, Murphy and Sanchez all have big league talent. Jeter is the question mark. In truth, I see Jeter probably moving down in the order if he's resigned. I think the Yankees probably go out and get another bat to replace Jeter's production at the top of the order. I mean, it's not like the Yankees struggled with offense last season. The lead the majors in scoring last year. Yankees have plenty of good young bats. Swisher, Kearns, Gardner, Berkman, Thames. They can all hit. Teixeira will not have another injury riddled season like he did last year.

I agree with you that Texas has a good hitting lineup but I don't really see that big of a problem with the Yankees where that is concerned. Should be another strong season for them.

 

[Stautner]

I think the Yankees probably will offer him a 5 year deal. I think you have a point about age but I think A-Rod has good years left. He was injured early and never really got right. An off season for him will do wonders. Rivera is still among the very best closers in the league. Posada may not see another season as the starting catcher. The Yankees do have several very good catching prospects in the minors. Montero, Romine, Murphy and Sanchez all have big league talent. Jeter is the question mark. In truth, I see Jeter probably moving down in the order if he's resigned. I think the Yankees probably go out and get another bat to replace Jeter's production at the top of the order. I mean, it's not like the Yankees struggled with offense last season. The lead the majors in scoring last year. Yankees have plenty of good young bats. Swisher, Kearns, Gardner, Berkman, Thames. They can all hit. Teixeira will not have another injury riddled season like he did last year.

I agree with you that Texas has a good hitting lineup but I don't really see that big of a problem with the Yankees where that is concerned. Should be another strong season for them.

I completely agree it should be another strong season for the Yankees, but I was thinking about beyond that. If Lee is worried only about who gives him the best chance to win it all next year, I think he would have to go with the Yankees. But if he looks at who gives him the better chance to win not only next year, but for the next 3-4 years after that, then the pendulum swings in my mind.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I completely agree it should be another strong season for the Yankees, but I was thinking about beyond that. If Lee is worried only about who gives him the best chance to win it all next year, I think he would have to go with the Yankees. But if he looks at who gives him the better chance to win not only next year, but for the next 3-4 years after that, then the pendulum swings in my mind.

I would be more concerned with the Rangers in that situation. I mean, they are young and that's good but they will have to keep those guys or get more talent. With the Yankees, you know they will go out and get players. That's what they do.

If Lee stays with the Rangers, I would not be against that. If he signed with the Yanks, I would not at all be shocked.

That's part of the fun of Baseball.

:laugh2: