Yet another, Are We Being Too Optimistic?

jday

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,321
Reaction score
13,284
Homework on a poster? Are you serious? Who the hell does that other than weirdo stalker type who waits for a gotcha moment.

There was no other reason to make the post you did other than the "I told you so" you can use later. Webboards are full of the "I think we will lose but I hope I am wrong types" which is pretty much what your thread is about. You don't think we will be as good next season as others do. There is no other reason to say that than the ability to be able to say I was right. Hell, we could go 11-5 next season and you still would be "right".

No lose situation for you.

Okay, I honestly have no idea who pissed in your cheerios before you read the op (which I seriously doubt you read in it's entirety, but I digress), but I assure you my reasons for sharing the op is because it just so happened to be on my mind and I like to talk Cowboys. Only, I'm not a sunshine and rainbows poster. I literally tell you exactly what is in my head. I do this in the hopes of inciting conversation about my favorite team..and you may have noticed i succeeded in that effort. You should probably persuse those conversations, and I think a different context for my intent will come to light for you.

The truth is, the odds of making it to the Super Bowl without the issues I pointed out, are pretty slim. I just don't get why anyone would get any type of enjoyment out of making a prediction like that and then coming back to rub everyone's nose in it. Makes no sense to me; but since it was your idea, I guess I apologize I seemingly stole a play out of your own playbook.
 

rags747

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,231
Reaction score
8,702
IMO the FO made the right call in basically blowing the defense up, why continue to pay 3-5 guys when they have never gotten it done. I am all for this new youth movement on the defensive side. Yes there will probably be more mistakes, but we also gain fresh legs and hopefully a more take no prisoners attitude from these youngsters...I'm looking for the same type of attitude that Dak and Zeke brought to the team.

The Giants will continue to be a tough out, their defense really gave our run game problems + their addition of Marshall and their new TE will be a huge challenge. Have to hope that Eli is on the decline and their OL remains a weakness. We may only go 10-6 but I believe we will be better...I hope.
 

Plumfool

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,502
Reaction score
964
If we look at what this team does well offensively and compare it to the team defenses we play this year, an argument can be made that this team sets up for another good year. Dallas will still be able to run the ball quite effectively. They only play 5 top 10 rush defenses this year and Green Bay wasn't really as good as their 8th place spot.
 

SlammedZero

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,996
Reaction score
43,003
I feel pretty good about the draft and I like the rebuild approach to the defense. It was time for new blood on that side of the ball.

Besides, anytime I want to feel optimistic about a draft I think back to the 2009 draft and then joyously smile at how this one went!
 

StarBoyz83

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,434
Reaction score
11,978
If we look at what this team does well offensively and compare it to the team defenses we play this year, an argument can be made that this team sets up for another good year. Dallas will still be able to run the ball quite effectively. They only play 5 top 10 rush defenses this year and Green Bay wasn't really as good as their 8th place spot.

Dallas plays pretty much all weak offenses also.
 

Melonfeud

I Copy!,,, er,,,I guess,,,ah,,,maybe.
Messages
21,976
Reaction score
33,152
IMO the FO made the right call in basically blowing the defense up, why continue to pay 3-5 guys when they have never gotten it done. I am all for this new youth movement on the defensive side. Yes there will probably be more mistakes, but we also gain fresh legs and hopefully a more take no prisoners attitude from these youngsters...I'm looking for the same type of attitude that Dak and Zeke brought to the team.

The Giants will continue to be a tough out, their defense really gave our run game problems + their addition of Marshall and their new TE will be a huge challenge. Have to hope that Eli is on the decline and their OL remains a weakness. We may only go 10-6 but I believe we will be better...I hope.

Agree 100% with flushing the mediocre secondary,,, my early thoughts were going 9-7 while that black cloud was overhead, but want to rescind that prediction,,, Right Now and have a look at preseason games before spouting off again.
 

jday

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,321
Reaction score
13,284
IMO the FO made the right call in basically blowing the defense up, why continue to pay 3-5 guys when they have never gotten it done. I am all for this new youth movement on the defensive side. Yes there will probably be more mistakes, but we also gain fresh legs and hopefully a more take no prisoners attitude from these youngsters...I'm looking for the same type of attitude that Dak and Zeke brought to the team.

The Giants will continue to be a tough out, their defense really gave our run game problems + their addition of Marshall and their new TE will be a huge challenge. Have to hope that Eli is on the decline and their OL remains a weakness. We may only go 10-6 but I believe we will be better...I hope.
I too am a huge fan of the youth movement, but the early returns may bite us. Long term, though, it was absolutely the right decision. Just as the defense starts to get right, Zeke and Dak will be pulling into their NFL prime.
 

jday

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,321
Reaction score
13,284
If we look at what this team does well offensively and compare it to the team defenses we play this year, an argument can be made that this team sets up for another good year. Dallas will still be able to run the ball quite effectively. They only play 5 top 10 rush defenses this year and Green Bay wasn't really as good as their 8th place spot.
I have no doubt they'll still be competitive...the question behind the OP is can they take the next step? The offense alone should be able to get to the playoffs but we our going need the defense to do better than status quo to go further.
 

Plumfool

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,502
Reaction score
964
I have no doubt they'll still be competitive...the question behind the OP is can they take the next step? The offense alone should be able to get to the playoffs but we our going need the defense to do better than status quo to go further.


I'm of the opinion that the Team played nervous the first quarter during this past playoff. Experience alone should help that next step.
 

Cowboysfan917

Well-Known Member
Messages
972
Reaction score
1,207
How high is too high when it comes to our expectations for this year?

It has been pointed out; it merits pointing out again. This place is hardly recognizable from previous years following the draft. The degree of optimism in this place is almost unsettling. And I’m not sure the Cowboys draft was as good as we are making it. I do wonder a little bit if last year’s draft has infused in us fans an unfair and unrealistic confidence. Surely we don’t expect a repeat of last year’s drafting success…especially considering where we were picking then (fourth overall throughout) versus where we were picking this year (28th overall throughout, along with a missing 5th round pick; thanks Matt Cassell). Four starters were found; 2 on offense (Dak & Zeke), 2 on defense (Collins & Brown). Add to that the 2 who redshirted, and there is potential to find 2 more starters from the same draft in Jaylon Smith and Charles Tapper (obviously, the likely scenario is 1 starter in Jaylon Smith, and a situational pass rusher in Charles Tapper, most likely in obvious passing situations).

So, the responsibility falls to me to be the wet blanket. So be it; it is usually I who feels the need to inspire confidence and hope into our Cowboys when the going gets tough, but I am no stranger to being a Debbie Downer. In 2015, I had a similar feeling; that maybe our success in 2014 was not as sustainable as many seemed to believe (especially with the departure of Demarco Murray). And sure enough, disaster struck in the form of a Romo injury and 2015 went down in flames. Of course, there was a silver-lining to that epic fail of a season. We were awarded the fourth overall pick and were afforded the ability to rejuvenate the ranks in the form of those aforementioned starters. That luxury did not extend to this year.

This year we were 28th in line and as such, we were not able to get the best options at every positions. It was leftovers across the board. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure and that proves true even in the NFL as schematic fit can often times trump a player’s individual talent. Take for instance a guy best suited for the 3-4 at defensive end. He might be the most dominant DE in college, but if you run the 4-3, unless you are planning on converting him to DT, chances are you field trade offers for someone to trade up and use those additional picks to find guys that actually fit your scheme.

Some will tell you, despite the Cowboys picking position, they were able to accomplish just that and get a large majority of their favorite targeted players. On that point, I’m not so sure. Don’t get me wrong…I really liked this draft where the Cowboys actually picked up a few of my very own pet cats in Awuzie and Woods. Nevertheless, we would be setting ourselves up for a significant letdown if we simply chose to ignore the positions they were unable to address.

Free, in his tenure, was likely the least favorite of the 5 offensive lineman, otherwise known as the Great Wall of Dallas. He was, in many ways, the weak link, particularly against speed rushers. But being the weak link on a great offensive line likely means you are still above average, as what I believe Free was. Unfortunately for the Cowboys, this was not the draft to find a viable replacement. The Cowboys did pick up some UDFA’s, but none are of the caliber UDFA the Cowboys lucked into with La’el Collins. As of right now, the Cowboys have Chaz Green penciled into the vacancy left by Free. I do not believe that would qualify as addition by subtraction.

Worst case scenario, the Cowboys have to routinely slide help to the RT side to help in blitz pick up and/or send the RB in that direction for the occasional chip whilst moving into a route. So, it’s not necessarily season-damning to not have All Pro’s across the board. But it is noteworthy to point out that the Cowboys identity as a whole, starts up front on offense. So even the slightest chink in that armor could cascade into bigger problems as the season progresses, especially if one of the stronger links in that chain miss any amount of time due to injury.

Youth is wasted on the young. This old cliché is pontificating on how much more an old mind could accomplish without the physical limitations of an old body. Imagine if science afforded us the ability to take an old consciousness and place it in the physical trappings of a youngster. Trust me when I say I have given this idea much thought. To do it all over again knowing what I know today…it’s kind of scary.

As Cowboys fan’s, we have to hope youth is not wasted on our new-fangled defense. Because aside from Sean Lee and Orlando Scandrick, this is a very young defense. As a result, they are going to make mistakes young players make. Truth be told, this defense very well could be epically bad. I honestly don’t think so. I believe what will in retrospect make this year’s draft special is the overall attitude this bunch brings; that intangible quality that forces everyone to play above their ability due to the standard that is set and kept. Having said that, I’d be foolish to dismiss the potential for it to go in a completely different direction with a bunch of look-at-me’s and pointing fingers on the field playing the blame game when someone misses a coverage. I suspect regardless of what the overall impression is of this draft class, we have to expect to see a little bit of both good and bad. And we have to hope in the end, it doesn’t really matter.

But beyond what has already been discussed, the one thing that fills me with the most trepidation for the upcoming season is the following statistic: Since 2007, seasons that ended in the playoffs for the Cowboys were followed by terrible letdown seasons. In 2007, the Cowboys went 13 & 3 followed by 9 & 7 in 2008 and 3rd place in the East. In 2009, the Cowboys won the East with an 11 and 5 record followed by 2010, where they ended with 6 and 10 and 3rd place in the East. This was followed by 3 straight season of 8 and 8. Then, in 2014, the Cowboys went 12 and 4 earning another NFCE title, only to follow that up with the poor returns of 4 and 12 and last place in the East in 2015.

Now for those who recall those years in detail, there were certainly always extenuating circumstances that surrounded those terrible seasons, most notably injuries to several key positions on both sides of the ball and a Head Coaching change in 2010. Nevertheless, it is worth pointing out that this has been happening like clockwork for just under 10 years. What makes this year any different?

I’ll answer for you. Youth. It is no secret that the older a player gets, the more susceptible they become to injury. Fortunately for the Cowboys, there very few over-thirties left and (outside of Sean Lee maybe) none would be considered mission critical. But injuries are not the only thing that can derail a season. How about that 2017 schedule? The NFCE, I suspect, is going to be a monster this season. Each of our divisional foes not only had the luxury of picking before our Cowboys in the draft, they also took much more active approaches to improving through Free Agency. The Cowboys will be facing largely revamped units that many were overhauled simply to compete with the Cowboys. Add to that the Packers, Raiders, Seahawks, Falcons, Broncos, Cardinals and a Chiefs team that is slowly but surely making strides towards becoming dominant, and you should certainly be able to understand the misgivings I have about the upcoming season.

As for as the next several years, not so concerned. I still believe the Cowboys are on the cusp of greatness….I’m just not so sure that greatness begins this season.

Thoughts?

I could easily see 8-8. I think there's a lot of questions left about Dak in year 2. I felt the same about Romo until seeing the improvement from 06-07 in the first few games in 07.

I also wonder if Garrett is really the guy to put it all together. Coach of the year...2 good seasons, 8-8 seasons, and a losing season. Which is he?

To me, this is the most unknown season since 2007.

My hopes aren't set incredibly high this season. I think the front office has the intention of long term success which is good but at some point one and done in the playoffs gets old. We keep rebuilding it feels like.

I'm almost of the belief, looking back, that resigning Dez and Murray after 2014 (ala Steelers this year) would have given us the chance at a run for 2-3 years. Of course we would be blowing it up now and in cap hell for short term gains and maybe Romo still would've gotten hurt but at least we knew what we had.
 

aria

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,543
Reaction score
16,793
I won't say too much because god forbid I'll be accused of being a Giants fan. I'm pessimistic by nature and although I like the way the team is headed I don't think all of the draftees will pan out like some here think they will. I've already been vocal about that and was flamed for saying it. It's just the way drafts work. I don't care if it's a 1st round bust or a 4th round gem a la Dak, rarely do all 1-4/5 first picks work out. We were a bit spolied last year.

Even if they all deliver talent wise, I doubt they'll jump right in an start shutting down veterans. That goes for every team but the Cowboys are very young compared to many which is why I said I think we'll very good a few years down the road but I'm not as optimistic about this year.

IMO, a lot of people here are too quick to be soooooo happy about all the players we lost, specifically defense. As I've said all along, many of you may be in for a big surprise. It may appear on paper that our draft picks are more talented, and maybe they are, but for now they're unproven in the NFL and experience alone counts for a lot. Experience is something the majority of the secondary doesn't have and something many other teams do have at the receiver position. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not getting my hopes up for defense this year.

I think homers here are also like to forget that we aren't the only team that addressed needs. All other 31 teams have new players they're excited about as well.

Thats my abbreviated version :)
 

rags747

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,231
Reaction score
8,702
Nice...but sober up..Jason =Johnson?? Big problem....
Maybe not Johnson, but Jason has brought us back to a dominant run game something that was pretty much lost on the rest of the league. Jason was at least smart enough to take away that from the Jimmy J days.
 

rags747

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,231
Reaction score
8,702
I'm of the opinion that the Team played nervous the first quarter during this past playoff. Experience alone should help that next step.
Thats what happens when u totally shut it down the last game of the season, u sleepwalk for a 1/2 in your 1st playoff game. Sickening...We should have destroyed GB and we would have if we had a pulse in that 1st half.

I could be wrong, but did Jimmy J ever shut it down at the end of a season? I was there for the ride but it is so long ago that I forget.
 
Top