You dont pay a player until you have to

[perrykemp]

How are WR's not essential?

Elite WRs just don't make a huge difference vs "Good" WRs -- at least compared to other positions.

A Top 3 WR hasn't been on a Superbowl winning team since the 1999 Rams.

 

[perrykemp]

I'm not advocating signing bad WR's. I'm simply pointing out that you don't need to spend a ton (be in salary cap dollars or draft picks) to get a solid group of WR's capable of winning a SB together.

The Pats keep rolling along year after year after year without any true superstar WR's (with the obvious exception of the Moss years, and they picked him up for a fourth round pick). I don't even see how that can be debated. The Saints essentially have Colston (who isn't even that great) and a revolving door. Baltimore and Pittsburgh just keep letting guys walking and drafting their replacements without any real drop off.

Look at Denver; they drafed Decker in round 3, Thomas in round 2, and signed Welker for cheap this offseason. Sometimes it can be that easy.

As long as you have an elite QB and guys that can get open, history indicates that you're going to be fine.

I would add to your sentiment that the Packers had essentially the best WR corp in the NFL over a 3-4 year period and none of their guys were top 10 receivers. Jennings in his prime with probably in the 10-20 range, however, Nelson, Jones, etc are really more #2 WRs than anything else.

 

[SWG9]

Dez Bryant is better than every WR you just mentioned except for Moss in his prime. He is top 3 at his position and may be #1 when this season is over. He is a player you can build an offense around.

His type of talent doesn't come around too often.

A fan of this team should have learned this lesson in '98. Our GM sure did.

Yet no one won anything with Randy Moss in his prime years. And Detroit has done nothing with 6 years of Calvin Johnson.

I want to be clear here, I'm not saying the Cowboys should definitely not resign Bryant. I'm just saying that they should pause before blindly giving him Calvin Johnson money or something beyond that.

Look how good Terrance Williams already looks in this offense; it can be done cheaply, and you can use that money elsewhere.

 

[perrykemp]

Dez Bryant is better than every WR you just mentioned except for Moss in his prime. He is top 3 at his position and may be #1 when this season is over. He is a player you can build an offense around.

His type of talent doesn't come around too often.

A fan of this team should have learned this lesson in '98. Our GM sure did.

Moss as good as he was never won a Superbowl.

 

[jterrell]

I'm not advocating signing bad WR's. I'm simply pointing out that you don't need to spend a ton (be in salary cap dollars or draft picks) to get a solid group of WR's capable of winning a SB together.

The Pats keep rolling along year after year after year without any true superstar WR's (with the obvious exception of the Moss years, and they picked him up for a fourth round pick). I don't even see how that can be debated. The Saints essentially have Colston (who isn't even that great) and a revolving door. Baltimore and Pittsburgh just keep letting guys walking and drafting their replacements without any real drop off.

Look at Denver; they drafed Decker in round 3, Thomas in round 2, and signed Welker for cheap this offseason. Sometimes it can be that easy.

As long as you have an elite QB and guys that can get open, history indicates that you're going to be fine.

The Pats aren't rolling along.
They last won a SB in 2004.

They have had Moss and Wes Welker (2 guysl likely going into the Hall of Fame). That is a commitment at WR.
They added Gronk and Hernandez at TE to the pass catching core.
They signed Amendola this year.
They aren't ignoring receivers.

Again your point was completely off base.
This is a league of passing offense and you do not win without it.

The Ravens had Torrey Smith emerge last year and Anquan Boldin still around. That's how they finally lifted a Lombardi.
The opposite sideline had Crabtree and high 1st round pick, Davis a high 1st round TE and 3 other former 1st round WRs in Jenkins, Ginn and Moss.

 

[jterrell]

Moss as good as he was never won a Superbowl.

Neither has Tony Romo or Dan Marino. Or Adrian Peterson or Mario Williams or the best LT in football or any number of other guys.

 

[jterrell]

Yet no one won anything with Randy Moss in his prime years. And Detroit has done nothing with 6 years of Calvin Johnson.

I want to be clear here, I'm not saying the Cowboys should definitely not resign Bryant. I'm just saying that they should pause before blindly giving him Calvin Johnson money or something beyond that.

Look how good Terrance Williams already looks in this offense; it can be done cheaply, and you can use that money elsewhere.

TWill looks plenty good with Dez drawing double coverage. He would look far less good as the WR1.

Agree about needing to carefully pay out that money but Dez is right now our best overall football player by a decent margin.

 

[Nightman]

I know he had 2 years left on his team friendly deal. That was one of the reasons for the extension. They were rewarding him for outplaying his contract and getting credit for the new signing bonus on the old contract. There was only 6m left to account for when the new 5 year deal kicked in. Obviously they wanted him to stay healthy and keep producing at similar levels, but they had the option of getting rid of him at any time and still saving on the salary cap.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

The Pats aren't rolling along.
They last won a SB in 2004.

They have had Moss and Wes Welker (2 guysl likely going into the Hall of Fame). That is a commitment at WR.
They added Gronk and Hernandez at TE to the pass catching core.
They signed Amendola this year.
They aren't ignoring receivers.

Again your point was completely off base.
This is a league of passing offense and you do not win without it.

The Ravens had Torrey Smith emerge last year and Anquan Boldin still around. That's how they finally lifted a Lombardi.
The opposite sideline had Crabtree and high 1st round pick, Davis a high 1st round TE and 3 other former 1st round WRs in Jenkins, Ginn and Moss.

Guess I didn't have to respond cause the point should be obvious.

Every team that was listed was better when they had more weapons.

 

[john van brocklin]

I know he had 2 years left on his team friendly deal. That was one of the reasons for the extension. They were rewarding him for outplaying his contract and getting credit for the new signing bonus on the old contract. There was only 6m left to account for when the new 5 year deal kicked in. Obviously they wanted him to stay healthy and keep producing at similar levels, but they had the option of getting rid of him at any time and still saving on the salary cap.

You don't reward a player for outplaying his contract.
I have yet to see a player who underperformed his contract give the team a refund.

 

[Nightman]

You don't reward a player for outplaying his contract.
I have yet to see a player who underperformed his contract give the team a refund.

You do if you want them to keep playing for you. This isn't baseball before Curt Flood, when they owned someone rights forever and could offer low ball contracts. It's only practical if you have a stable of Pro Bowl replacements available. Since not many teams do, it's good business to take care of your stars.

If a player under performs he is cut and might not ever sign another contract. Teams have to sign multiple players every year if they want to compete.Spite is not a good recruiting tool.

 

[scottsp]

I see nothing wrong with getting out front on a guy like Dez, or if a club is willing to extend their #1 knowing that he is an integral part of their future. If he is that good, go for it.

Moving early on a second WR, on the other hand, tends to be a problem. In fact, unless it's a lineman, I wouldn't go too quickly on the second guy in any position unit. That is, unless you already signed your alpha only to have something better fall into your lap. That's when you may have to deal from a position of strength and move the first guy along.

Jumping the gun on most guys is a bad idea, unless he's undoubtedly an alpha performer. And doing so after one good year... well, we have seen that plenty.

 

[Nightman]

Moss as good as he was never won a Superbowl.

Moss also caught the go ahead TD in the Super Bowl that would've capped a 19-0 season if it wasn't for a dropped INT and the luckiest scramble/catch in the history of the game.

 

[Cowboy_Shawn]

Where Jerry erred in his signings of Ratliff and MBIII is the timing of the deals.

Jerry handed MBIII that ridiculous new contract after we'd already drafted Felix Jones and Tashard Choice. You use a first round pick on a RB then turn around and hand the incumbent RB a premium contract? That's just idiotic. Choice was an accomplished collegiate RB as well making the decision to hand MBIII that kind of money even more of a head-scratcher.

With Ratliff it felt like it was a case of Jerry paying Jay based on what Jay had did in the past rather than what he could produce in the future. When Ratliff was re-signed it was already evident that his level of play was falling off and that he was no longer an elite interior DL.

 

[Cowboy_Shawn]

I see nothing wrong with getting out front on a guy like Dez, or if a club is willing to extend their #1 knowing that he is an integral part of their future. If he is that good, go for it.

Moving early on a second WR, on the other hand, tends to be a problem. In fact, unless it's a lineman, I wouldn't go too quickly on the second guy in any position unit. That is, unless you already signed your alpha only to have something better fall into your lap. That's when you may have to deal from a position of strength and move the first guy along.

Jumping the gun on most guys is a bad idea, unless he's undoubtedly an alpha performer. And doing so after one good year... well, we have seen that plenty.

Locking up elite young talent like Dez would be a smart decision. Jerry's problem has been that he eagerly hands out large contracts to has-beens and marginally talented players.

 

[Jenky]

I'm not advocating signing bad WR's. I'm simply pointing out that you don't need to spend a ton (be in salary cap dollars or draft picks) to get a solid group of WR's capable of winning a SB together.

The Pats keep rolling along year after year after year without any true superstar WR's (with the obvious exception of the Moss years, and they picked him up for a fourth round pick). I don't even see how that can be debated. The Saints essentially have Colston (who isn't even that great) and a revolving door. Baltimore and Pittsburgh just keep letting guys walking and drafting their replacements without any real drop off.

Look at Denver; they drafed Decker in round 3, Thomas in round 2, and signed Welker for cheap this offseason. Sometimes it can be that easy.

As long as you have an elite QB and guys that can get open, history indicates that you're going to be fine.

Demaryius Thomas was drafted before Dez Bryant. Both are top 5 receivers at this point.

 

[Jenky]

Locking up elite young talent like Dez would be a smart decision. Jerry's problem has been that he eagerly hands out large contracts to has-beens and marginally talented players.

Handing out contracts is a gamble any way you cut it and age is a variable you do account for. There's always risk vs reward.

I don't like dealing in absolutes when every situation & player is unique.

 

[scottsp]

Locking up elite young talent like Dez would be a smart decision. Jerry's problem has been that he eagerly hands out large contracts to has-beens and marginally talented players.

Aye. I am not a fan of giving long-term (and big) money to guys on the downhill side of thirty, unless it's a quarterback. And that QB better be worth it. I think we got that one right here.

Otherwise, no, being "too eager" with those types tends to be a recipe for disaster.

 

[dallasdave]

Ok here's the difference. Take DEZ and Hatcher they both produce but Hatcher will be 32 next year and in the past has been injury prone. Dez is young and one of the best players in the league. You extend DEZ for a long term contract and only offer Hatcher a reasonable 1 or 2 year contract.

 

[mmillman]

In the world of the NFL salary cap era.
I hope Jerry learned his lesson extending Rat and Barber when they still had years left on their contracts.
You especialy don't do it when Jay was close to 30 and Barber played the kind of physical running back style that has a very short shelf life in the NFL.

The only smart extentions when a player has years left on their contract is at QB, if you have a really good one like Jerry did with Romo.

When has Jerry shown the ability to adapt and learn as a GM? Spencer? In the NFL you don't pay age. Newman? Prior to Rat and Barber he overpaid for Roy Williams, both. Prior to the trade for Roy Williams he traded for Galloway. Post Jimmy leaving he had a continuous stream of mediocre coaches. Constant churning of coordinators and years of mediocre offensive line play. Granted, the line is absolutely improving. It took spending draft picks on LT and Center following terrible free agent signings at guard.