You HAVE to be kidding me...

[Danny White]

LMAO Even the Commanders HTTR fight song used to have the words "scalp em" in it until they figured out how racist they were being and changed it

When they sing it at games, they still include "scalp em."

 

[BigDFan5]

When they sing it at games, they still include "scalp em."

I am sure they mean "scalp em" in an honorable way tho

 

[Hostile]

again, why is it that non-native americans are speaking for native americans? can't they speak for themselves?

how in the world is that simple point 'grasping at straws'?

Wait, wait, wait. Are you now denying there was a lawsuit about the use of the name?

How myopic are you?

 

[riggo]

They DO speak for themselves! Look at the post above yours... are you blind?

Root for your team all you want... but your name is racist. Time to face the facts. Live with it if you want, but don't deny it... it's impossible.

so, because those particular people are offended means all native americans find the term offensive?

 

[Hostile]

Gfunk - you were correcting spelling earlier, so thought I would help you out. The stereotypical rope would be wrapped around their waist, and your team would be the correct use of the word "waste".

Not to mention worse should be worst.

 

[Danny White]

so, because those particular people are offended means all native americans find the term offensive?

You're changing the subject again my mohawked friend.

You asked why the Native Americans weren't "speaking for themselves."

Many clearly are. It's obvious, it's been pointed out to you time and time again. What more do you need to see to realize that it's offensive? Your crude level of sophistry is really becoming embarrasing.

 

[riggo]

Wait, wait, wait. Are you now denying there was a lawsuit about the use of the name?

How myopic are you?

there was a lawsuit. (where did i deny otherwise? )

they found 7 native americans in 1992 that were offended --

The lawsuit began in 1992 when seven American Indians, led by Suzan Shown Harjo, asked the trademark office to cancel six trademarks containing the word "Commander."
-------------------------------------

Thankfully, the Annenberg Public Policy Center at Penn, as part of their 2004 campaign coverage, conducted a scientific poll of 768 American Indians on this subject. Just 9 percent thought that the name Commanders for Washington's NFL team was offensive; 90 percent thought it acceptable. Among self-identified liberals, 14 percent found the name disparaging, compared to 6 percent of conservatives.

-------------------------------------------------------------


Supporters of Native American mascots and nicknames point to surveys, such as the one published by Sports Illustrated in March 2002, which found that although most Native American activists found Indian mascots and nicknames offensive, the majority of non-activist American Indians were not disturbed by them.
American Indian activists explained the discrepancy in the Sports Illustrated article that accompanied the survey, saying, "Native Americans' self-esteem has fallen so low that they don't even know when they're being insulted."
Harjo, who is president of the Morning Star Institute, an Indian-rights organization in Washington D.C., stated in her essay, "There are happy campers on every plantation." Harjo implied that although many slaves may have been content with their lives in bondage, the institution of slavery still needed to be abolished and the same reasoning holds true for Native American mascots.
According to the Sports Illustrated survey, 87 percent of American Indians who lived off Indian reservations did not object to Native American mascots or nicknames. Of the Indians who lived on reservations, 67 percent were not bothered by the nicknames, while 33 percent opposed them.

 

[BigDFan5]

so, because those particular people are offended means all native americans find the term offensive?

Riggo why do you avoid every point written? Still waiting on links to back your claims.

Did you click the links I provided?

Is talking about "scale em" in the HTTR song a honorable tribute?

How about the difinition i provided for Commanders what was your thoughts on that?


Dont wuss out Riggo, you got involved in the thread dont run away because you are getting thrashed

 

[riggo]

You're changing the subject again my mohawked friend.

You asked why the Native Americans weren't "speaking for themselves."

Many clearly are. It's obvious, it's been pointed out to you time and time again. What more do you need to see to realize that it's offensive? Your crude level of sophistry is really becoming embarrasing.

i'm not changing the subject. you said you found some people that were offended. i propose that most native americans- speaking for themselves- are not.

why the insults?

 

[Hostile]

so, because those particular people are offended means all native americans find the term offensive?

So, just because it's you're favorite team they don't matter?

I asked you before. Find me a word origin that isn't offensive. Can you? No. We both know it.

The warpaint thing that gfunk mentioned was real silly. White, yellow, and black were also used as warpaint colors. I can prove that if you wish.

Yet, the word red is singled out for this "tribute." Yeah right. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

I don't hear you saying you'd be fine with a change of the name to the Yellowskins, Whiteskins or Blackskins.

Still none of you "tributary" fans who want to call Native Americans "Commanders" to their faces. I wonder why?





I really don't wonder why. I said that for effect.

 

[riggo]

Riggo why do you avoid every point written? Still waiting on links to back your claims.

Did you click the links I provided?

Is talking about "scale em" in the HTTR song a honorable tribute?

How about the difinition i provided for Commanders what was your thoughts on that?


Dont wuss out Riggo, you got involved in the thread dont run away because you are getting thrashed

no wussing out here. your beef about the links your asking about is not with me.

 

[riggo]

So, just because it's you're favorite team they don't matter?

I asked you before. Find me a word origin that isn't offensive. Can you? No. We both know it.

The warpaint thing that gfunk mentioned was real silly. White, yellow, and black were also used as warpaint colors. I can prove that if you wish.

Yet, the word red is singled out for this "tribute." Yeah right. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

I don't hear you saying you'd be fine with a change of the name to the Yellowskins, Whiteskins or Blackskins.

Still none of you "tributary" fans who want to call Native Americans "Commanders" to their faces. I wonder why?





I really don't wonder why. I said that for effect.

does the fact that most native americans arent bothered by the term matter?

k- i have to run for today. i'll check in tomorrow.

 

[BigDFan5]

no wussing out here. your beef about the links your asking about is not with me.

Nice attempt at copping out and ignoring everything I asked. Your true colors have been exposed and they arent red, they are yellow.

Again I ask for links to these polls you were talking about. I want actual link to an actual poll. Not some copy paste job from a diff site. and please answer the following

I repeat:

Did you click the links I provided?

Is talking about "scale em" in the HTTR song a honorable tribute?

How about the difinition i provided for Commanders what was your thoughts on that?

 

[Danny White]

i'm not changing the subject. you said you found some people that were offended. i propose that most native americans- speaking for themselves- are not.

why the insults?

Are you referring to the "mohawk" comment? If so, I was simply referring to your avatar.

If you're referring to my criticism of your level of sophistry, no direct insult was intended. I was simply observing that you continue to come back to the same tired argument every time a new point is made, and that your inability to counter the various arguments thrown at you must be somewhat embarrasing. I don't mean that as a personal attack, simply as an observation.

That said, your poll, which is verifiable and seems somewhat scientific, is your strongest argument to date.

I will say that I'm already on record saying that the exact percentage is irrellevant to the offensiveness of the term. So the poll doesn't make me find the term to be any less offensive.

But, you raise a strong point in that a vast majority of Native Americans are not offended. For that reason, I don't see that there will be enough pressure any time soon to change the name.

But that doesn't mean I can't continue arguing for what is right!

Cheers to you el Riggo.

 

[Hostile]

does the fact that most native americans arent bothered by the term matter?

k- i have to run for today. i'll check in tomorrow.

See you tomorrow.

You have no proof that most aren't bothered by this. Furthermore let me ask you this. How many need to be offended before you will care? Give me a number. It is the same with most things, there are more people offended than there are people who actually speak up.

I still can't get any of you who claim that it's no big deal to Native Americans to come with me so you can call them "Commanders." Hey, I'll walk up to any man in the world wearing the hat and call him a Cowboy. (That was gfunk's example, not mine, so keep that in mind.) None of you will do the same for a Native American you don't know. We both know why that is too don't we?

Why hide from that?

I ask you one more time, do some etymology research and find me some proof of the origin of the word beyond the offensive conotation. Even one shred of evidence.

The fact of the matter is there are people of all nationalities and races who endure slurs and there are those who are stung by them. You guys need to see more people hurt by the slur to care about it?

Personally, I consider that rather sad, but hey it is what it is.

One last question. If the team changed it's name would you throw away your old mementos and your allegiance to the team? I highly doubt it.

Amazing to me that the Bullets became the Wizards in the very same town.

 

[Crown Royal]

Can we add 'Commander' to the language filter as an ethnic slur? Seems that if we are going to call it one on this forum, we might as well, with all due fairness, block it out.

I am not joking in this post. If it is the consensus that this is a derogative ethnic slur, and words such as the 'n' word are filtered, this one ought to be as well.

 

[Danny White]

Can we add 'Commander' to the language filter as an ethnic slur? Seems that if we are going to call it one on this forum, we might as well, with all due fairness, block it out.

I am not joking in this post. If it is the consensus that this is a derogative ethnic slur, and words such as the 'n' word are filtered, this one ought to be as well.

Great idea. I've obviously been doing this myself for awhile.

I'd highly recommend it.

 

[hailvictory]

Don't kid yourself, the NFL could force them to do whatever they wanted them to do and it would be perfectly Constitutional.

Do you think if a team wanted to rename itself the ***** and have a Swastika as their logo the NFL would let them because of freedom of speech? No chance!

And a team named the "Braves" or "Indians" or "Seminoles" is MUCH MUCH different than the "Redsk*ns."

Those are proper, non-offensive names... Redsk*ns is a blatant racial slur... a term who's time is past just like the N-word or any other slur that may have been used commonly decades ago, but has no place in this day and age.

racist in what way??? are you native american? how is it racist...do you think our skin is red? well, its not...Commander refers to the color of skin AFTER you put paint on it. warrior paint is a tradition im sure you are aware of...
most of these people that b**** about the name don't even have the blood.
no one in my family perceives the name as degrading or racist. really come on now, the cowboys mess with heads more than the name Commanders...
you do know that cowboys HUNTED natives right? left em to die...no reason either.

however i do agree that the Commanders franchise was indeed racist towards blacks, as the owner at the time was a blatant, racist bigot.

 

[peplaw06]

racist in what way??? are you native american? how is it racist...do you think our skin is red? well, its not...Commander refers to the color of skin AFTER you put paint on it. warrior paint is a tradition im sure you are aware of...
most of these people that b**** about the name don't even have the blood.
no one in my family perceives the name as degrading or racist. really come on now, the cowboys mess with heads more than the name Commanders...
you do know that cowboys HUNTED natives right? left em to die...no reason either.

however i do agree that the Commanders franchise was indeed racist towards blacks, as the owner at the time was a blatant, racist bigot.

Maybe you oughta read the rest of the thread to find out how it's racist...

 

[Hostile]

racist in what way??? are you native american? how is it racist...do you think our skin is red? well, its not...Commander refers to the color of skin AFTER you put paint on it. warrior paint is a tradition im sure you are aware of...
most of these people that b**** about the name don't even have the blood.
no one in my family perceives the name as degrading or racist. really come on now, the cowboys mess with heads more than the name Commanders...
you do know that cowboys HUNTED natives right? left em to die...no reason either.

however i do agree that the Commanders franchise was indeed racist towards blacks, as the owner at the time was a blatant, racist bigot.

The part in bold is all I am addressing.

No, it absolutely, 100% does NOT refer to war paint. Learn a little word called etymology. It means the origin of words. Look up the origin of the word. I promise you there will be no reference to war paint. It is real reasy to figure out why. You've accepted an absolute lie.

For the record and I have already said I can prove this, not all war paint was red. In fact yellow, black and white were also used.

It is ignorant to think people will actually buy this screed when you couldn't do anything to back it up. That's the bottom line. No dictionary, encyclopedia, or website about etymology is going to refer the name to war paint. Not one single solitary site. Know why?

Of course you do. Will you admit why?

I highly doubt it.