"You have to win in the trenches"

[SportsGuru80]

I agree with Woody!

 

[Rockport]

As Cowboys fans, we should all be used to the team focusing on skill positions. The league has a salary cap, and you can't afford to pour tens of millions of dollars into QB, WR, CB, etc. and also have a ton of talent on the lines. Jerral and Co. have made a conscious decision to use their resources in the flashier side of the game and they have for years.

When all is said and done, though, it's not that fact that makes this team so mediocre, so I don't think harping on it is all that constructive.

Well you'd be in the minority amongst NFL people with that opinion. If you're a very shrewd organization you can build your team properly from the trenches out. Focusing on the skill positions is fools gold.

 

[ClarenceDarrow]

Well you'd be in the minority amongst NFL people with that opinion. If you're a very shrewd organization you can build your team properly from the trenches out. Focusing on the skill positions is fools gold.

Yes but that doesn't change the fact that that is how the Cowboys organization does it and has done it for a long time. Post all the threads you want to complaining about it, Jerral isn't reading this board. I mean, I understand your frustration, but at some point it gets repetitive and boring. Like when you find one quote from a former player and post a thread about it.

 

[Boyz981]

Did I see this topic before? Same poster?

 

[RS12]

"You have to win in the trenches"

Since football was invented.

 

[Rockport]

Since football was invented.

Yes.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If it only were that simple the Browns might actually win something.

 

[Rockport]

If it only were that simple the Browns might actually win something.

It is that simple but you have to be very shrewd in light of the salary cap to get both the players needed on the OL and DL and enough skill players to support a efficient offense.

 

[Idgit]

It is that simple but you have to be very shrewd in light of the salary cap to get both the players needed on the OL and DL and enough skill players to support a efficient offense.

What are you watching about the modern NFL that makes you think it really is that simple. Shouldn't the teams that have the best trenches win the most games?

 

[Rockport]

What are you watching about the modern NFL that makes you think it really is that simple. Shouldn't the teams that have the best trenches win the most games?

When your offensive and defensive lines control the line of scrimmage good things happen. When you dominate physically it affects the opposition physcologically also. Just watch a game and usually the team that does control both lines of scrimmage win the game. Always been that way and always will.

 

[theogt]

In order to win, you have to pass the ball more effectively than your opponent. Sometimes that can be done by 'winning in the trenches.' But often times there is no discernible difference in play in the trenches and it comes down to the team that can purely pass it more effectively. I've seen the Cowboys look bad in the trenches, but if the opponent can't execute the passing and can't stop the pass, they are not going to win.




YR

This is it. It's about being adequate in pass protection. I think this line can do that -- IF they stay healthy. We have better depth than last year, but it's still a concern, like most teams.

There are 160 starting oline positions in the NFL and there aren't 160 starting quality linemen, much less enough backups to go around. They're a scarce resource.

 

[Idgit]

When your offensive and defensive lines control the line of scrimmage good things happen. When you dominate physically it affects the opposition physcologically also. Just watch a game and usually the team that does control both lines of scrimmage win the game. Always been that way and always will.

This sounds good. It just doesn't happen to have the benefit of being true. When I watch the games, I see the teams that pass the ball more effectively than the other guys winning. This can happen with even a mediocre OL if the QB is good enough. It can happen with a mediocre QB, if the pass defense is good enough. I don't see it happen so much with a mediocre QB and a mediocre pass defense, if the OGs are good enough, though.

 

[Idgit]

This is it. It's about being adequate in pass protection. I think this line can do that -- IF they stay healthy. We have better depth than last year, but it's still a concern, like most teams.

It is. It's getting to the point where the limiting factor is the 53 man limit to the roster. Injuries can decide which teams progress into the post season because rosters are stretched to the limit getting guys in for the various position groups today's offenses use and the requirements those groups put on defenses to defend them. They really should let you dress all your players, and they should consider letting you carry a few more guys (55?) on the overall roster. It would help the better run teams be more successful in the long run. That goes against the parity directive, but we're getting to a point where the luck of the injury draw is deciding divisions in the last 3-4 games of seasons, which isn't great for the league.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

Obviously superior skill players can make up for minor short-comings in the trenches, but they cannot make up for major short-comings in the trenches. It's so tiresome reading these Strawmen arguments that somehow we trench believers demand all-pros at every line position, we don't. What we believe has been this team's fatal flaw for many years now, and the facts bear this out, is that this team fails to field even semi-adequate linemen. There's a minimum threshold that has not been met in the OL for a very long time. Personally, I think the team has made positive strides in the last few years with their draft picks but they are still trying to get by with the bare minimum. With a lot of luck this year I think the starting OL(with Free at tackle) can get them into the playoffs, but one or two injuries can blow the whole thing up because there is zero depth.

The DL is looking at a very similar situation, IMO.

 

[Idgit]

Obviously superior skill players can make up for minor short-comings in the trenches, but they cannot make up for major short-comings in the trenches. It's so tiresome reading these Strawmen arguments that somehow we trench believers demand all-pros at every line position, we don't. What we believe has been this team's fatal flaw for many years now, and the facts bear this out, is that this team fails to field even semi-adequate linemen. There's a minimum threshold that has not been met in the OL for a very long time. Personally, I think the team has made positive strides in the last few years with their draft picks but they are still trying to get by with the bare minimum. With a lot of luck this year I think the starting OL(with Free at tackle) can get them into the playoffs, but one or two injuries can blow the whole thing up because there is zero depth.

The DL is looking at a very similar situation, IMO.

I don't think you're demanding all pros everywhere. I think you just don't understand what the team's primary flaw has been in recent years. If that helps any. You're very intent on solving the wrong problem, and you don't realize that the facts actually don't bear your argument out at all.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

I don't think you're demanding all pros everywhere. I think you just don't understand what the team's primary flaw has been in recent years. If that helps any. You're very intent on solving the wrong problem, and you don't realize that the facts actually don't bear your argument out at all.

LMAO

The truth has hit you in the face with a shovel every year now for many years but you'll never concede that it even exists. Costa? Livings? Berny? Helloooo? Anybody home? lol

 

[Idgit]

LMAO

The truth has hit you in the face with a shovel every year now for many years but you'll never concede that it even exists. Costa? Livings? Berny? Helloooo? Anybody home? lol

What's your point? You're suggesting the reason we're losing games is because of less than mediocre OL play, I think. But I said going into last season that mediocre was probably the best we could hope for with that lineup. The VFA OGs were stopgaps. And a good QB can beat teams with stopgap OGs. Stop pretending I've every said anything other. And our problems on the OL were more with RT and C, anyway, but who's bothering to remember that after a steady offseason diet of complaining about Jerry Jones and his signings from 2011?

That's *still* not the reason we didn't make the playoffs last season. There's no amount of complaining about interior OL you're going to do that's going to make the -13 TO differential and the bottom-10 pass defense go away, EGG. There are causes, and then there are effects, and then there are people complaining about the wrong things in this league. I know what category I'd put your arguments in. Concede what? That I was right last season, and am right again this season? That every move the team has made this offseason supports what I've been saying all along and invalidates what you've wanted? If that's a shovel, then why is it patting me on the back?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It is that simple but you have to be very shrewd in light of the salary cap to get both the players needed on the OL and DL and enough skill players to support a efficient offense.

No it's not that simple but people buy into Occam's razor because its easy. Teams have not 'won the trenches' and won superbowls behind the strength of top QB play and a pass rusher.

This is not 1980.

 

[Rockport]

No it's not that simple but people buy into Occam's razor because its easy. Teams have not 'won the trenches' and won superbowls behind the strength of top QB play and a pass rusher.

This is not 1980.

Sure they have. But to have the greatest chance you build from the trenches. Doesn't matter if it's the 60's, 70's, 80's or 2013.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's your point? You're suggesting the reason we're losing games is because of less than mediocre OL play, I think. But I said going into last season that mediocre was probably the best we could hope for with that lineup. The VFA OGs were stopgaps. And a good QB can beat teams with stopgap OGs. Stop pretending I've every said anything other. And our problems on the OL were more with RT and C, anyway, but who's bothering to remember that after a steady offseason diet of complaining about Jerry Jones and his signings from 2011?

That's *still* not the reason we didn't make the playoffs last season. There's no amount of complaining about interior OL you're going to do that's going to make the -13 TO differential and the bottom-10 pass defense go away, EGG. There are causes, and then there are effects, and then there are people complaining about the wrong things in this league. I know what category I'd put your arguments in. Concede what? That I was right last season, and am right again this season? That every move the team has made this offseason supports what I've been saying all along and invalidates what you've wanted? If that's a shovel, then why is it patting me on the back?

Yup. Injuries to Dez, Austin, Lee, Carter, Church, etc are what did us in.

BUT IT'S THE TRENCHZORZ!!!1!

You have to love it when people's knowledge is based on a slogan.