"You have to win in the trenches"

FuzzyLumpkins

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Sure they have. But to have the greatest chance you build from the trenches. Doesn't matter if it's the 60's, 70's, 80's or 2013.

The title of the thread is 'have' not 'best chance.' Of course if you dominate all over the field, you will have the best chance to win.

In order to win you need to hold your own in the trenches and win in the passing game.
 

blindzebra

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All the data points to passing well, defending the pass well and winning the turnover battle being the "have to" in the winning formula.
 
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What's your point? You're suggesting the reason we're losing games is because of less than mediocre OL play, I think. But I said going into last season that mediocre was probably the best we could hope for with that lineup. The VFA OGs were stopgaps. And a good QB can beat teams with stopgap OGs. Stop pretending I've every said anything other. And our problems on the OL were more with RT and C, anyway, but who's bothering to remember that after a steady offseason diet of complaining about Jerry Jones and his signings from 2011?

That's *still* not the reason we didn't make the playoffs last season. There's no amount of complaining about interior OL you're going to do that's going to make the -13 TO differential and the bottom-10 pass defense go away, EGG. There are causes, and then there are effects, and then there are people complaining about the wrong things in this league. I know what category I'd put your arguments in. Concede what? That I was right last season, and am right again this season? That every move the team has made this offseason supports what I've been saying all along and invalidates what you've wanted? If that's a shovel, then why is it patting me on the back?

Wow

If you're just going to revise away your defense and praise of Costa and the Livings/Berny signings then maybe my job here is done and I should accept this change of tune as an argument closer.

So, did you even bother to read my original post that you commented on? Doesn't look like it,,,,
 

RoyTheHammer

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As Cowboys fans, we should all be used to the team focusing on skill positions. The league has a salary cap, and you can't afford to pour tens of millions of dollars into QB, WR, CB, etc. and also have a ton of talent on the lines. Jerral and Co. have made a conscious decision to use their resources in the flashier side of the game and they have for years.

When all is said and done, though, it's not that fact that makes this team so mediocre, so I don't think harping on it is all that constructive.

Of course, we've used two first round picks in the last 3 years on OL.. but don't let that distract you from your rant.
 

burmafrd

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Of course, we've used two first round picks in the last 3 years on OL.. but don't let that distract you from your rant.


of course with the need for at least 4 new starters on the O line in that same time period those two picks are not that impressive are they? Especially when there was a grand total of ONE OTHER PICK PERIOD on the O line and that was a 4th rd reach on a small school player.
 

big dog cowboy

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As Cowboys fans, we should all be used to the team focusing on skill positions. Jerral and Co. have made a conscious decision to use their resources in the flashier side of the game and they have for years.
Really? Better revisit our recent drafts and FA signings.
 

Rockport

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Of course, we've used two first round picks in the last 3 years on OL.. but don't let that distract you from your rant.

That's true but that's about all they've done. They went on the cheap with Livings and Bernadeau but spent $$ on Carr. Meanwhile the defensive line hasn't been helped.
 

Cloudy

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We have 4 1st round picks projected to start on our OL and DL.
2 1st round picks in the other starting 13 positions.
 

RoyTheHammer

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That's true but that's about all they've done. They went on the cheap with Livings and Bernadeau but spent $$ on Carr. Meanwhile the defensive line hasn't been helped.

Had Crawford not been injured this season.. it would've been helped.

Also, thinking they "went cheap" with the guards they signed, to me, is just a bitter fan opinion. Livings played well last year, and there's no evidence to prove that Berny wasn't a guy that Callahan wanted.
 

Rockport

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Had Crawford not been injured this season.. it would've been helped.

Also, thinking they "went cheap" with the guards they signed, to me, is just a bitter fan opinion. Livings played well last year, and there's no evidence to prove that Berny wasn't a guy that Callahan wanted.

Bitter fan? That's harsh. Based on the contracts they signed for the two, they did sign them for cheap. And we got what we paid for.
 

RoyTheHammer

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Bitter fan? That's harsh. Based on the contracts they signed for the two, they did sign them for cheap. And we got what we paid for.

We got a player in Livings that was above average last year for cheap.. it was a nice signing, no matter if it was cheap or not.

Plus the fact that we drafted 2 OL in the first round in the past 3 years, and picked a nice rotational player for the DL in the mid rounds as well, in Crawford.

We're clearly not ignoring it, as you and a few others would like everyone to believe.
 

Idgit

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Wow

If you're just going to revise away your defense and praise of Costa and the Livings/Berny signings then maybe my job here is done and I should accept this change of tune as an argument closer.

So, did you even bother to read my original post that you commented on? Doesn't look like it,,,,

I'm not sure what you saw last year that makes you think you were right about Phil Costa. He was injured, but he played well when he was in the lineup. So, there's that argument.

What I said the entire time about both Livings and Bernardeau, and I was very, very clear about this was that it was absolutely ridiculous for people to fuss about those two picks as much as they did before any of the starters last season had played a single snap in a Dallas uniform. I happen to think that point remains entirely accurate. If I were one of the guys complaining that much about players I'd literally never seen play, I'd be embarrassed by having such a strong opinion based on absolutely nothing.

I also said all along that both players were stopgap, short term signings. That Mack, in particular, had upside since we hadn't seen him play with the benefit of starting reps. That it was silly to complain so much about Livings, who played for a playoff team in CIN before coming to Dallas. That OG play, overall, is not as important as OT play. That I was worried about OT depth. And that we were debilitated last season by injuries to both VFA OGs and to our top 3 C candidates. That the lack of any time together as a starting lineup in TC hurt us. And, again, when we got into trouble, it was because of problems at C and RT more than it was at OG. Despite that, EGG, we were a fairly effective offense last season. What we weren't, was a fairly effective passing defense. What we weren't was effective at taking care of the football and at taking it away when we needed to.

The fact that I defended our interior OL from baseless criticism does not mean that I was blind to how good those players will be. I feel like I'm a broken record, in fact, in that I say in just about every post that it's just not all that important to have premium players in those spots. These aren't revisions, and, if I'm praising any of these guys, it's faint praise. For the record, I don't consider saying 'they're not complete garbage' to have been praising them in any way.

If you really can't negotiate the nuance, and I use that term very lightly, between defending players from unfair and unsubstantiated attacks and 'praising' them for not be disastrous garbage, then, yeah, maybe you should accept this 'change of tune.' And by 'change of tune' here, I mean 'reiteration of the exact same tune I've been humming all along.' Because, if the points aren't registering after this much repetition, there's little chance of them getting heard, anyway.
 
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I'm not sure what you saw last year that makes you think you were right about Phil Costa. He was injured, but he played well when he was in the lineup. So, there's that argument.

What I said the entire time about both Livings and Bernardeau, and I was very, very clear about this was that it was absolutely ridiculous for people to fuss about those two picks as much as they did before any of the starters last season had played a single snap in a Dallas uniform. I happen to think that point remains entirely accurate. If I were one of the guys complaining that much about players I'd literally never seen play, I'd be embarrassed by having such a strong opinion based on absolutely nothing.

I also said all along that both players were stopgap, short term signings. That Mack, in particular, had upside since we hadn't seen him play with the benefit of starting reps. That it was silly to complain so much about Livings, who played for a playoff team in CIN before coming to Dallas. That OG play, overall, is not as important as OT play. That I was worried about OT depth. And that we were debilitated last season by injuries to both VFA OGs and to our top 3 C candidates. That the lack of any time together as a starting lineup in TC hurt us. And, again, when we got into trouble, it was because of problems at C and RT more than it was at OG. Despite that, EGG, we were a fairly effective offense last season. What we weren't, was a fairly effective passing defense. What we weren't was effective at taking care of the football and at taking it away when we needed to.

The fact that I defended our interior OL from baseless criticism does not mean that I was blind to how good those players will be. I feel like I'm a broken record, in fact, in that I say in just about every post that it's just not all that important to have premium players in those spots. These aren't revisions, and, if I'm praising any of these guys, it's faint praise. For the record, I don't consider saying 'they're not complete garbage' to have been praising them in any way.

If you really can't negotiate the nuance, and I use that term very lightly, between defending players from unfair and unsubstantiated attacks and 'praising' them for not be disastrous garbage, then, yeah, maybe you should accept this 'change of tune.' And by 'change of tune' here, I mean 'reiteration of the exact same tune I've been humming all along.' Because, if the points aren't registering after this much repetition, there's little chance of them getting heard, anyway.

Sure thing chief, "nuanced".
 

bayeslife

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O Line got a lot of blame for the Washinhton game but I thought they did well in that game.


We had the middle of the field wide open all night and Garrett just kept throwing the ball down the sideline.

Garrett kept throwing the ball down the sideline? Interesting. Didn't know he was the QB in that game.
 

Derinyar

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To win currently in this league you need top notch QB play. You can win a superbowl with an average QB that has an amazing run, see Flacco and Eli. But with the rules governing how the QB can be hit you can actually get away with having a slightly weak Oline right now, as long as the officials call the penalties right. I think that mostly rules us out as the officials don't call roughing penalties for us, only against us. Or at least it feels that way.
 

Rockport

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We got a player in Livings that was above average last year for cheap.. it was a nice signing, no matter if it was cheap or not.

Plus the fact that we drafted 2 OL in the first round in the past 3 years, and picked a nice rotational player for the DL in the mid rounds as well, in Crawford.

We're clearly not ignoring it, as you and a few others would like everyone to believe.

The fact that you think Livings is an above average player leads me to believe that your opinions can be questioned.
 
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